Songs of Experience - 1 Year Later

[zoocarolina]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

A rock band in their 60s can write the tightest fucking pop song in the history of tight pop songs and they still wouldn't attain chart relevance.

Which is extremely sad, but that’s reality and hope U2 just says screw it, make something really out there and no matter what they put out people will still come out to see them play.

[lazarus]

Most people who come to see them at this point are not there because of the album they're currently touring.

Look at how poorly No Line performed commercially, and yet they still had a record-breaking tour for it.

So yes, people will still come.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by zoocarolina

Which is extremely sad, but that’s reality and hope U2 just says screw it, make something really out there and no matter what they put out people will still come out to see them play.

It's not that sad.

Popular music is a young person's game. Always has been, always will be. U2 had a longer time in the game than just about any other rock band ever. They should be commended for that. But because they beat the odds with the third run in the 2000s, they've had a difficult time accepting their place as well statesmen

[lazarus]

They could have beat the odds again, even after the subpar reception of No Line.

And they blew it.

But they're not accepting their place because they believe they still have the songs, which they did with SOI and SOE. They just haven't promoted the right ones, and promoted that first album horrendously in general.

[Flying FuManchu]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

A rock band in their 60s can write the tightest fucking pop song in the history of tight pop songs and they still wouldn't attain chart relevance.

They need to get Diane Warren. Is she still alive?

[superchuk5]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

A rock band in their 60s can write the tightest fucking pop song in the history of tight pop songs and they still wouldn't attain chart relevance.

Can't do it by themselves. They would need to be featured on some other artists' big single and I can't see them doing it for a single. XXX. probably the most they would do.

Heck, they could be the ones who write the song but they'd still need the big artist to be the main credited artist for branding purposes.

[namkcuR]

Originally Posted by Flying FuManchu

They need to get Diane Warren. Is she still alive?

Originally Posted by superchuk5

Can't do it by themselves. They would need to be featured on some other artists' big single and I can't see them doing it for a single. XXX. probably the most they would do.

Heck, they could be the ones who write the song but they'd still need the big artist to be the main credited artist for branding purposes.

I have no desire to see either of these things.

They just need to stop worrying about being in the zeitgeist.

[namkcuR]

Originally Posted by lazarus

They could have beat the odds again, even after the subpar reception of No Line.

And they blew it.

But they're not accepting their place because they believe they still have the songs, which they did with SOI and SOE. They just haven't promoted the right ones, and promoted that first album horrendously in general.

Yeah, they've done an almost inconceivably bad job promoting all of their post-Bomb albums.

Picking Boots as lead-off single for NLOTH

The guyliner and the 2009 grammy performance which probably sunk the album for a lot of people before it was even released

Not having the nerve to release MOS or the title track as singles
--
The false start of releasing Invisible in February on Superbowl Sunday and then not capitalizing on it, not releasing the album until September

The whole Apple release

Making the slow version of EBW the single instead of the album version, and doing right after SFS was a single, two slow ballads in a row. I love the slow version of EBW, but they either needed to make the album version the single or not release SFS as as single. Doing both in a row hurt.

Not releasing California as a single when it was begging for it. Same for Volcano.

Not only not releasing Crystal Ballroom as a single, but leaving it off the album
--
Making Get Out and American Soul the heavily promoted singles, while Summer Of Love and Love Is Bigger, both better songs, are the last singles and barely promoted. I didn't even know until recently that Summer Of Love and Love Is Bigger(and Lights Of Home) were singles at all. That should tell you something.

Not only not releasing (a perhaps edited version of) Little Things as a single, but not playing it at all on the tour, when it might be the best song on the album, and certainly the most reminiscent of classic U2.

[CosmoKramer]

Originally Posted by lazarus

they believe they still have the songs, which they did with SOI and SOE. They just haven't promoted the right ones, and promoted that first album horrendously in general.

While we likely disagree on which songs, I agree with your overall take.

Every Breaking Wave, Little Things, Black Out and Love is Bigger are all really great songs.

Every Breaking Wave was DOA due to the Apple release and Bono injury(I think the latter was more impactful as they couldn’t promote it properly but with how the “promotional” decisions have gone since 2014....perhaps that was a good thing)

Little Things is top tier U2 IMO and save for the manufactured sounding drum that opens the song, is just beautiful. Not only do they not release it as a single but they don’t even play it live....the best song on the album and they don’t play it live...ugh. The Spotify single recording was a cool touch but alas...

Blackout was such a cool preview of SOE. It rocked had a cool video that garnered attention. They also were playing clips of it during the MLB playoffs..it was a good start! Then that was it ad they go all in with Best Thing. This was likely the plan all along but it just squashed the momentum being built by Blackout (not much but there was some).

Love is Bigger was played very well live and actually received decent airplay compared to most other songs since NLOTH but they didn’t promote it. They went on Ellen, which was genius because you reach an audience that otherwise wouldn’t listen to “new U2” and instead of bringing the big guns...they play a weak stripped down version of the song. This is a band whose sum is greater than its parts and the bulk of the promo around SOE was with only parts of the band. The remixes were in large part absolute garbage and the video was God awful with a great message but terrible execution.

[Hollow Island]

Originally Posted by CosmoKramer

While we likely disagree on which songs, I agree with your overall take.

Every Breaking Wave, Little Things, Black Out and Love is Bigger are all really great songs.

Every Breaking Wave was DOA due to the Apple release and Bono injury(I think the latter was more impactful as they couldn’t promote it properly but with how the “promotional” decisions have gone since 2014....perhaps that was a good thing)

Little Things is top tier U2 IMO and save for the manufactured sounding drum that opens the song, is just beautiful. Not only do they not release it as a single but they don’t even play it live....the best song on the album and they don’t play it live...ugh. The Spotify single recording was a cool touch but alas...

Blackout was such a cool preview of SOE. It rocked had a cool video that garnered attention. They also were playing clips of it during the MLB playoffs..it was a good start! Then that was it ad they go all in with Best Thing. This was likely the plan all along but it just squashed the momentum being built by Blackout (not much but there was some).

Love is Bigger was played very well live and actually received decent airplay compared to most other songs since NLOTH but they didn’t promote it. They went on Ellen, which was genius because you reach an audience that otherwise wouldn’t listen to “new U2” and instead of bringing the big guns...they play a weak stripped down version of the song. This is a band whose sum is greater than its parts and the bulk of the promo around SOE was with only parts of the band. The remixes were in large part absolute garbage and the video was God awful with a great message but terrible execution.

Blackout got playes during baseball games because of corporate synergy.

Love is Bigger live was basically karaoke and I think Ellen's audience is exactly the group that would be interested in new(tered) U2.

The remixes were indees awful and embarrassing and while the vid had a good message it seemed like U2 were co-opting the cause as a wayvto get attention. As with much of what they've done for 15-20 years it seemed forced and inauthentic. Like they were doing what a focus group thought "U2" would do.

[Hollow Island]

Originally Posted by namkcuR

I didn't even know until recently that Summer Of Love and Love Is Bigger(and Lights Of Home) were singles at all. That should tell you something.
.

It tells me that U2-the-makers-of-hit-songs are fucking dead and they should acknowledge that

[LuckyNumber7]

I heard love is bigger at a target 🤷🏻*♂️ sounds like relevance to me

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by lazarus

They could have beat the odds again, even after the subpar reception of No Line.

And they blew it.

But they're not accepting their place because they believe they still have the songs, which they did with SOI and SOE. They just haven't promoted the right ones, and promoted that first album horrendously in general.

Ehhhhhh maybe, but not in the same way they did in 2000-2005. People in their teens and early 20s payed attention. I don't think that was ever happening again, even with the Apple debacle.

The best hope for the i/e era was a critically successful run with big play on adult alternative stations and there cementing of their legacy.

Instead, because of one mistake, they've done nothing but damage that legacy.

Sad, really.

[PopFly]

The other route would've been to attach one of their songs to a movie, which worked to some extent with Ordinary Love except the song wasn't all that strong. Or go outside the box and have one of their songs be, say, the theme song of a Netflix show or something.

[PopFly]

Originally Posted by namkcuR

Yeah, they've done an almost inconceivably bad job promoting all of their post-Bomb albums.

Picking Boots as lead-off single for NLOTH

The guyliner and the 2009 grammy performance which probably sunk the album for a lot of people before it was even released

Not having the nerve to release MOS or the title track as singles
--
The false start of releasing Invisible in February on Superbowl Sunday and then not capitalizing on it, not releasing the album until September

The whole Apple release

Making the slow version of EBW the single instead of the album version, and doing right after SFS was a single, two slow ballads in a row. I love the slow version of EBW, but they either needed to make the album version the single or not release SFS as as single. Doing both in a row hurt.

Not releasing California as a single when it was begging for it. Same for Volcano.

Not only not releasing Crystal Ballroom as a single, but leaving it off the album
--
Making Get Out and American Soul the heavily promoted singles, while Summer Of Love and Love Is Bigger, both better songs, are the last singles and barely promoted. I didn't even know until recently that Summer Of Love and Love Is Bigger(and Lights Of Home) were singles at all. That should tell you something.

Not only not releasing (a perhaps edited version of) Little Things as a single, but not playing it at all on the tour, when it might be the best song on the album, and certainly the most reminiscent of classic U2.

When you read this all collected into a single post.....man, it really is a laundry list of incompetence.

The worst part of it is, both SOI and SOE actually fucking had the kinds of songs that were both modern-sounding and also classic U2-sounding, any of which could have gotten some attention from casual listeners. Red Flag Day, This Is Where You Can Reach Me Now, Raised By Wolves, Little Things....yet none of these were singles. U2 instead opted for the less-interesting single choices time and time again.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by namkcuR

Yeah, they've done an almost inconceivably bad job promoting all of their post-Bomb albums.



Picking Boots as lead-off single for NLOTH



The guyliner and the 2009 grammy performance which probably sunk the album for a lot of people before it was even released



Not having the nerve to release MOS or the title track as singles

--

The false start of releasing Invisible in February on Superbowl Sunday and then not capitalizing on it, not releasing the album until September



The whole Apple release



Making the slow version of EBW the single instead of the album version, and doing right after SFS was a single, two slow ballads in a row. I love the slow version of EBW, but they either needed to make the album version the single or not release SFS as as single. Doing both in a row hurt.



Not releasing California as a single when it was begging for it. Same for Volcano.



Not only not releasing Crystal Ballroom as a single, but leaving it off the album

--

Making Get Out and American Soul the heavily promoted singles, while Summer Of Love and Love Is Bigger, both better songs, are the last singles and barely promoted. I didn't even know until recently that Summer Of Love and Love Is Bigger(and Lights Of Home) were singles at all. That should tell you something.



Not only not releasing (a perhaps edited version of) Little Things as a single, but not playing it at all on the tour, when it might be the best song on the album, and certainly the most reminiscent of classic U2.

Boots as the first single was a horrible choice - but it's really the last time the single choice impacted the album.

That's not to say the single choices were good - for the most part they weren't.

But the Apple disaster made single choice moot. It didn't matter. Nothing was breaking through the noise. They instantaneously turned into an out of touch old band, and haven't been able to shake that stigma since (largely because they're an out of touch old band).

[lazarus]

Right, but I’d argue that they had earned some goodwill back from the whole Paris/Eagles of Death Metal show, the success of that tour in general, the guest spot on Kendrick’s album, etc.

And I think, had they promoted SOE wisely, it could have made some kind of dent, however small. Pushing The Blackout first was a great idea; lyrically and musically it sounded relevant, muscular, like they had something to prove. Had they given it the full court press and played it everywhere, it could have got more rotation on modern rock stations like KROQ, even if it would never have been a crossover hit. They would have at least won the “cool” battle:

Instead, they switched gears and went with an anemic, shallow track that was nowhere near as fun as Vertigo, or even Boots, despite having a decent vocal melody. Hell, American Soul, as generic as it is, would have been a stronger lead single, esp with the Kendrick intro. And if they wanted to go this poppier/lightweight route, The Showman would have been way more effective.

We’ve been over this territory before, but I still believe this single release schedule could have restored their cred, sold more copies/downloads/streams, and possibly resulted in Grammy attention:

1. Blackout
2. Love Is Bigger/The Showman
3. Little Things
4. The Showman/Love is Bigger
5. Summer of Love

[namkcuR]

Originally Posted by lazarus

Right, but I’d argue that they had earned some goodwill back from the whole Paris/Eagles of Death Metal show, the success of that tour in general, the guest spot on Kendrick’s album, etc.

And I think, had they promoted SOE wisely, it could have made some kind of dent, however small. Pushing The Blackout first was a great idea; lyrically and musically it sounded relevant, muscular, like they had something to prove. Had they given it the full court press and played it everywhere, it could have got more rotation on modern rock stations like KROQ, even if it would never have been a crossover hit. They would have at least won the “cool” battle:

Instead, they switched gears and went with an anemic, shallow track that was nowhere near as fun as Vertigo, or even Boots, despite having a decent vocal melody. Hell, American Soul, as generic as it is, would have been a stronger lead single, esp with the Kendrick intro. And if they wanted to go this poppier/lightweight route, The Showman would have been way more effective.

We’ve been over this territory before, but I still believe this single release schedule could have restored their cred, sold more copies/downloads/streams, and possibly resulted in Grammy attention:

1. Blackout
2. Love Is Bigger/The Showman
3. Little Things
4. The Showman/Love is Bigger
5. Summer of Love

I agree with your general premise, but I'd replace Blackout with Red Flag Day, and The Showman with Lights Of Home. I get the allure of Blackout, but I'm not wild about the song, there's a bit of a dad-rock element to it. I think Red Flag is a fresher sounding rock song.

Showman is a solid song outside of the chorus, but I find the chorus to be a little obnoxious, and I'm not sure how well it would play. Lights Of Home doesn't scream single, but it's up-tempo enough it could work as the last single, let it right the coattails of what came before. So, maybe:

1. Red Flag Day
2. Love Is Bigger(I might make the acoustic version the single version - it's not really acoustic, but it's a little less bombastic)
3. Little Things
4. Summer Of Love
5. Lights Of Home

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by lazarus

Right, but I’d argue that they had earned some goodwill back from the whole Paris/Eagles of Death Metal show, the success of that tour in general, the guest spot on Kendrick’s album, etc.

And I think, had they promoted SOE wisely, it could have made some kind of dent, however small. Pushing The Blackout first was a great idea; lyrically and musically it sounded relevant, muscular, like they had something to prove. Had they given it the full court press and played it everywhere, it could have got more rotation on modern rock stations like KROQ, even if it would never have been a crossover hit. They would have at least won the “cool” battle:

Instead, they switched gears and went with an anemic, shallow track that was nowhere near as fun as Vertigo, or even Boots, despite having a decent vocal melody. Hell, American Soul, as generic as it is, would have been a stronger lead single, esp with the Kendrick intro. And if they wanted to go this poppier/lightweight route, The Showman would have been way more effective.

We’ve been over this territory before, but I still believe this single release schedule could have restored their cred, sold more copies/downloads/streams, and possibly resulted in Grammy attention:

1. Blackout
2. Love Is Bigger/The Showman
3. Little Things
4. The Showman/Love is Bigger
5. Summer of Love

i don't necessarily disagree (and actually think the thing you hate the most - JT30 - went further to rehab their image than anything else)... but the apple slip up officially pushed them into "old band" territory, and every move from here on out is only about rehabbing their legacy and being popular with the olds.

[Iggy Fizz]

for the next album, they need something slow, atmospheric, elusive, with Bono's vocals in the mix, not on top of it. something a casual would not immediately recognize as U2. no more Bono shouting over the instruments and force feeding the song... it just turns people off. and he's been doing it ever since No Line, at least. it's the reason a song like MOS sounds brilliant to a die hard U2 fan, and no one else.