Songs of Experience - 1 Year Later

[Mac_Fly]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

Summer of Love - It's at this point that the album locks into a nice groove for a bit. This is a very pleasant track with a good message, decent melody and likable beat. I get a Time of the Season vibe from this one. More interesting or exotic percussion would have helped, but it's a fine track, if a little bland sonically.

Red Flag Day - Another rocker that's way too polished and overdone, but it sounds reasonably modern and is buoyed by a strong chorus. Again, there's a good bit of social commentary here that works and I think Bono and Edge play off each other well vocally. Solid.


The Blackout - Most of this is very good. The pre-chorus is potent and the chorus is memorable. Adam sounds great on here. Edge's guitar textures are kinda badass. Unfortunately...those end rhymes in the verses. SHEESH. Full body cringe.

These are the three that I would play if I had to expose someone to this particular U2 outing.

[The_acrobat]

Am I the only one that likes both SOI and SOE? I’d rank them both somewhere in the middle of the pack of U2’s albums, which I think says a lot. Obviously it doesn’t touch their best material, but I really like the albums and am glad U2 are still making music.

My wish for the next album is for them to go a little darker, and stop trying to make “joyful” music.

[LemonMelon]

I don't overly care for either, but SOI has some flashes of more subtle, experimental U2 in Sleep Like a Baby Tonight and The Troubles. Plus, Raised By Wolves has some legit great Edge guitar work and California is one of U2's best pop songs of this century. I'll mostly pass on the rest, but for me those four songs put it well in front of SOE.

[The_acrobat]

My thing about Blackout; the video we got about the end of summer 2017 was an awesome version. The album version falls flat as fuck by comparison.

[Mac_Fly]

Originally Posted by The_acrobat

Am I the only one that likes both SOI and SOE? I’d rank them both somewhere in the middle of the pack of U2’s albums, which I think says a lot.

Well, I like SOI decidedly, though I don't know where I'd rank it. It's to U2's credit that they have such a great catalog that an album like SOI would end up down the list.

SOE . . .well . . .it's a good album, far from great.

And it's got problems.

[brooklynmike]

Originally Posted by The_acrobat

My thing about Blackout; the video we got about the end of summer 2017 was an awesome version. The album version falls flat as fuck by comparison.

I agree with this. That is how this song should be performed. The EI tour version wasn’t awful, but seemed partially recorded like Invisible was, and lacked punch.

[mofo82]

It’s funny, I reallllly like SOI, to me cracks top 5 or 6 because they really struck a vein that feels runs through the whole album sonically and in theme. I believe the autobiographical nature pushed the lyrics into a less contrived and less forced direction from Bono. When he writes good lyrics, the songs usually follow suit. And I hate saying Bono and contrived in the same sentence because he truly is a genius, but for me believe I notice a song sticks with me when lyrically Bono writes a song in storytelling mode, and gets more difficult for me when he shifts to advice giving mode. The two seem to generate a really different feeling for me personally and I like story telling mode better.

I listened to SOI album a shit ton, and I feel a lot of storytelling is going on. On the other hand I’ve only listened to SOE in full just a handful of times. And I think it’s because I get a similar vibe/ feeling about SOE to HTDAAB in that I feel we have this huge mish mash of really emotional greeting card type songs that just swing you from one range of emotions to the next, and the ‘Experience’ puts him in advice mode.

SOE I feel has a more single-minded songlist where they try to hit home runs with ‘big’ songs this a lot more variation sonically within than SOI (Reach Around might be the one exception that feels it’s from an entirely different sounding place). Like in HTDAAB there’s a huge difference and single-minded approach with Sometimes you can’t make it on your own/Love and Peace or Else/ All Because of You/ A Man and a Woman- gives me the same kind of separated vibe as You’re The Best Thing/ The Little Things/ American Soul/ Landlady/ Love is Bigger. I like all of those songs, but when I hear them within a single listen of their full album, just feels like too much like an over-loaded Thanksgiving dinner plate. ‘One round of Aunt Jeannine’s stuffing (i.e. Love is Bigger) was more than enough, and I really didn’t need to try her other stuffing, exactly the same, only with extra onions (i.e. You’re the Best thing) LOL.

And to the credit of some other comments made by folks on the forum in this thread, the recordings on SOE do feel much more flat and very far away from their live counterparts. On the other hand I think SOI’s album cuts are really strong and the live versions seem to build on a strong foundation such as Raised by Wolves- SOI gets a high grade as an album for that song alone.

All in all, so thankful and glad they are still pushing themselves and giving us new material when they could’ve hung it up a very long time ago. We are better people because of them.

[CosmoKramer]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

I just listened to it again this morning and I'm certain that it's my least favorite by the band, but it's no worse than mediocre on the whole. That, I suppose, is a testament to the quality of their discography.

The problems here are four-fold:

1. Bono's boring A/B/A/B rhyme schemes and bumper sticker slogan lyricism

2. Edge contributing next to nothing innovative or even memorable on guitar

3. Sturdy but dull chord progressions that don't stick in the head at all

4. Ultra-stick production that drains the life out of even the album's most intriguing moments

Breaking it down song by song:

Love Is All We Have Left - A good idea to start things soft and unassuming in a refreshing change from The Miracle, but the vocoder sounds awful and it doesn't really build to anything. Not their best opener, but not awful.

Lights of Home - I have an electronic drum kit in my apartment that cost a couple hundred bucks and it has a similar tone to Larry's crash cymbal on this song. So yeah, the production doesn't help. It's a bit of a Frankenstein monster too, jumping around without ever locking into a groove. The best part of the song is when it evokes Iris, and that is not a compliment by any means.

You're the Best Thing About Me - Enough bandwith has been spent shitting on this song, but I'll add to it. The "I can see it all so clearly" bridge is great, but nearly everything else is trash. The verses drag badly with a clunky tempo and nagging vocal melody and the chorus features the line "you're the best thing that ever happened a boy." It ain't pre-release single material, that's for sure.

Get Out of Your Own Way - Eugh. I love the textures in the intro, but it goes downhill fast. It's an absolute ripoff of Beautiful Day, sure, but the biggest problem is the awful second verse, which is maybe well-intended but baffling in execution. The ALL NIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT WHAT'S INSIDE INSIDE ALRIGHT YEAH YEAH YEAH chorus is like a caricature of 21st century U2.

American Soul - They mixed together one of my favorite songs of 2017 and one of the better songs on SOI and made a mess. I don't despise this track or anything, but it's Stand Up Comedy all over again; a clunky rocker with a bad arrangement and no flow. Plus: refujesus!

Summer of Love - It's at this point that the album locks into a nice groove for a bit. This is a very pleasant track with a good message, decent melody and likable beat. I get a Time of the Season vibe from this one. More interesting or exotic percussion would have helped, but it's a fine track, if a little bland sonically.

Red Flag Day - Another rocker that's way too polished and overdone, but it sounds reasonably modern and is buoyed by a strong chorus. Again, there's a good bit of social commentary here that works and I think Bono and Edge play off each other well vocally. Solid.

The Showman - I like how low key the album continues to be during this section of the album, but I'll pass on this one. It starts off well enough and I appreciate the self-reflection contained in the lyrics - Bono has discussed this subject in the past quite eloquently - but the chorus could be used for torture. LIL MO LIL MO! Fuck. Half of this song should be thrown into a fire.

The Little Things That Give You Away - Honestly, I think this is one of the more overrated U2 songs. I liked the live arrangement, but the album take feels stiff and rote until the outro, which is so over the top that I can't help but appreciate how hard it's trying. The song is explicitly sad and overtly U2 and it means well, but something doesn't connect. It's lacking subtlety and contrast. I do like what Edge brings to the table on guitar though, a rarity for this album.

Landlady - Another track with a few different parts that doesn't cohere into anything or offer much that sticks. The subject matter sticks in the head, though it comes off a bit goofy on this drab, sleepy backdrop. The chorus is somewhat memorable, but the verses are in one ear and out the other. I've heard this song like half a dozen times and can never remember them. The bridge suffers from a leaden rhyme scheme that drags an already slow track to a halt.

The Blackout - Most of this is very good. The pre-chorus is potent and the chorus is memorable. Adam sounds great on here. Edge's guitar textures are kinda badass. Unfortunately...those end rhymes in the verses. SHEESH. Full body cringe.

Love Is Bigger Than Anything In Its Way - You know what you're getting with this one from the title. It's a fucking Coldplay song that you might hear at the grocery store sometimes. And yet...it's one of the best tracks here. From the start, there's an actual hook and as overdone as it all is, at least it sticks with you after it's over. The effort was well-placed this time. Heartwarming, goofy, mildly embarrassing and familiar. U2 feels like family here.

13 - For a song with Song For Someone at its core, it's not bad. I don't dislike the re-used lyrics, but it does bug me that they actually use the title verbatim. I don't have much to say about the music because it just kind of floats there. The lyrics are a mixed bag, not good enough for a song that places so much emphasis on the vocals, but not the worst on the album. Kind of disappointing after great closers like Cedars of Lebanon and The Troubles.

I've listened to SOE maybe half a dozen times and today's listen only confirmed what I already knew: it's a 5/10 album. But that's OK; U2 have released plenty of amazing albums and plenty of great albums come out every year. One mediocre record is no big deal in the grand scheme of things. If they do want to contribute to that list of great records to drop every year though, they need to hook up with Eno and Lanois to at least get their textures right. The sound of SOE is so bad, which makes the inconsistent content much less enjoyable.

I am someone that loves post Pop U2(prefer most/all of the albums over PoP and Zooropa actually). I have grown very irritated over the years at those who not just dislike post Pop U2 but offer up a one or two line dismissal of the work. At times, I have gotten the impression that anything put out by U2 now will be met with blind criticism and isn’t even given a chance.

With that said, I appreciate your post and you taking the time to walk through your thoughts as opposed to posting one or two lines saying it sucks or you haven’t listed to it in x time. I found Your takes very interesting. I’ll be posting my final thoughts on SOE soon myself as this past year has been very enlightening to me from a U2 perspective.

[lazarus]

Originally Posted by djparky

For SOE, it's well produced

No, it isn't. This is the album's main problem, which El Mel did a great job detailing in his post.

Too many cooks, too many additional musicians, too much Frankensteining of disparate elements.

[trevgreg]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

The Blackout - Most of this is very good. The pre-chorus is potent and the chorus is memorable. Adam sounds great on here. Edge's guitar textures are kinda badass. Unfortunately...those end rhymes in the verses. SHEESH. Full body cringe.

Not a cut against you LM... but I do find it funny that the only times I really think about those rhymes for me are when I read about people not liking them on here! When I listen to the actual song, it doesn't really strike me in particular or as something odd. That's just me though.

[CosmoKramer]

Originally Posted by trevgreg

Not a cut against you LM... but I do find it funny that the only times I really think about those rhymes for me are when I read about people not liking them on here! When I listen to the actual song, it doesn't really strike me in particular or as something odd. That's just me though.

I’m like you. The rhymes, while not great by any stretch, don’t bother me and I only think of them when I hear people ripping on them

They are a bit cheesy for sure but as I have mentioned to death in this place, they are no more cheesy than many lyrics on albums considered from a lyrics standpoint as “peak U2” (Zooropa and Pop).

Does “you know you’re chewing bubble gum” ruin Discotheque? No, love that song and can overlook that line.

Does “Your skin is white but you think you’re a brother, someday are better than others” ruin that song? Nope (I really dig this song)

Do the odd insect verses in SATS ruin the song? Nope

Now that is not to say that dodgy lyrics can’t kill a song (American Soul and Landlady) if the rhythm section or overall sound isn’t catchy or something worth a salt but in the above mentioned songs (Blackout too) the sound and choruses outweigh any awkward lyrics.

I’m still on the fence about “ you’re the best thing that ever happened a boy” line because that’s not a poor lyric, it’s just poor grammar...he literally just removed a word to try and make it fit....FFS that was an asshat decision.

[trevgreg]

Originally Posted by CosmoKramer

I’m like you. The rhymes, while not great by any stretch, don’t bother me and I only think of them when I hear people ripping on them

They are a bit cheesy for sure but as I have mentioned to death in this place, they are no more cheesy than many lyrics on albums considered from a lyrics standpoint as “peak U2” (Zooropa and Pop).

Does “you know you’re chewing bubble gum” ruin Discotheque? No, love that song and can overlook that line.

Does “Your skin is white but you think you’re a brother, someday are better than others” ruin that song? Nope (I really dig this song)

Do the odd insect verses in SATS ruin the song? Nope

Now that is not to say that dodgy lyrics can’t kill a song (American Soul and Landlady) if the rhythm section or overall sound isn’t catchy or something worth a salt but in the above mentioned songs (Blackout too) the sound and choruses outweigh any awkward lyrics.

I’m still on the fence about “ you’re the best thing that ever happened a boy” line because that’s not a poor lyric, it’s just poor grammar...he literally just removed a word to try and make it fit....FFS that was an asshat decision.

Yep. I agree with pretty much all that. A lot of it is going to be whether the melody works or not anyway. And for the most part, I'd say Bono does a good job with those sorts of things.

Writing lyrics can be a tough/weird thing anyway, and while I can look at some as goofy from time to time, I rarely get too worked up about a final result from bands I like.

I don't really mind the "happened a boy" part though. Yeah, the grammar thing was annoying at first and it was a way to make the melody fit. But for the most part, it's grown on me.

[LemonMelon]

The lines in The Blackout are awful because not only are they filler used to complete an end rhyme, they fundamentally change the tone of the lyrics. This is a heavy, stomping rocker with some ominous themes: war, irrelevance, the end of the world, etc. The hell is he doing with this cutesy name bullshit?

Filler lines can be fine. "Did I ask too much? More than a lot," is an example of filler to complete an end rhyme that works because it doesn't ruin the tone. It's not a great line by any means, but you barely notice how iffy it is unless it's pointed out to you. In The Blackout, Bono seems to be...introducing characters into the narrative? Evoking 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover? Who knows.

[lazarus]

I like to think he was giving a shout-out to Steely Dan's Do It Again.

[LemonMelon]

Originally Posted by lazarus

I like to think he was giving a shout-out to Steely Dan's Do It Again.

Achtung Baby's lyrics were a tribute to Haitian Divorce

Morrissey's performance of Satellite of Love was a tribute to U2

The circle is complete.

[The_acrobat]

I don’t really think too hard about lyrics most of the time. If you think about it too hard, you’ll never like any song!

[LemonMelon]

Or you can appreciate good lyrics even more!

[U2387]

Originally Posted by The_acrobat

One year later, I’m still a pretty big fan. Lights of Home is the track that has probably aged the worst for me. I actually don’t mind American Soul anymore, as long as I don’t think about it too hard.

I actually heard “best thing” in a restaurant today at lunch, and heard “love is bigger” while getting a haircut last week. Makes me feel like some of the tracks broke through a little bit, which is about the best we can ask for these days.

I have the exact same feelings as you. Lights of home was one of the top songs on the album the first few times I heard it. It has definitely mellowed on me- though I will never dislike it at all. I think it was for sure the biggest dead weight live on E&I. Seeing it live contributed to me lowering its ranking.

Song for song, there is nothing weak on SOE. I loved it at first listen and still do now. I can't find anything weak on SOI either- overall, an excellent era for me. However, there is just something about SOE that has kept me listening over and over again. Most of my drives these days take about 20 minutes, and I find myself playing Red Flag-Showman-Little Things-Blackout-Love is bigger- (nothing against Landlady, just like the others more) during about half of those drives. When I have more time, I play the album right through. I love SOI and played it often for a long time for sure, but don't remember doing it this long or this often. I'd switch out for JT, AB or something from another artist more often in 2014 or 2015.

Something about SOE grabs you and doesn't let go.

I've heard Best Thing in a hotel in Tucson and Love is bigger at a gas station outside Boston just in the last month.

Plus there was the decent run that both Best Thing and Love is bigger had on the radio and on generic playlists.

There were obviously no mega hits, but there was a nice taste of relevance without the dumb Apple scandal to taint the public and professional views.

[U2387]

Originally Posted by mofo82

It’s funny, I reallllly like SOI, to me cracks top 5 or 6 because they really struck a vein that feels runs through the whole album sonically and in theme. I believe the autobiographical nature pushed the lyrics into a less contrived and less forced direction from Bono. When he writes good lyrics, the songs usually follow suit. And I hate saying Bono and contrived in the same sentence because he truly is a genius, but for me believe I notice a song sticks with me when lyrically Bono writes a song in storytelling mode, and gets more difficult for me when he shifts to advice giving mode. The two seem to generate a really different feeling for me personally and I like story telling mode better.

I listened to SOI album a shit ton, and I feel a lot of storytelling is going on. On the other hand I’ve only listened to SOE in full just a handful of times. And I think it’s because I get a similar vibe/ feeling about SOE to HTDAAB in that I feel we have this huge mish mash of really emotional greeting card type songs that just swing you from one range of emotions to the next, and the ‘Experience’ puts him in advice mode.

SOE I feel has a more single-minded songlist where they try to hit home runs with ‘big’ songs this a lot more variation sonically within than SOI (Reach Around might be the one exception that feels it’s from an entirely different sounding place). Like in HTDAAB there’s a huge difference and single-minded approach with Sometimes you can’t make it on your own/Love and Peace or Else/ All Because of You/ A Man and a Woman- gives me the same kind of separated vibe as You’re The Best Thing/ The Little Things/ American Soul/ Landlady/ Love is Bigger. I like all of those songs, but when I hear them within a single listen of their full album, just feels like too much like an over-loaded Thanksgiving dinner plate. ‘One round of Aunt Jeannine’s stuffing (i.e. Love is Bigger) was more than enough, and I really didn’t need to try her other stuffing, exactly the same, only with extra onions (i.e. You’re the Best thing) LOL.

And to the credit of some other comments made by folks on the forum in this thread, the recordings on SOE do feel much more flat and very far away from their live counterparts. On the other hand I think SOI’s album cuts are really strong and the live versions seem to build on a strong foundation such as Raised by Wolves- SOI gets a high grade as an album for that song alone.

All in all, so thankful and glad they are still pushing themselves and giving us new material when they could’ve hung it up a very long time ago. We are better people because of them.

Excellent post, all of it! Even though I don't agree with your take on SOE, I appreciate the analysis and understand where you are coming from. I personally think SOE fits together much better than HTDAAB. Though HTDAAB gets a pass on that from me because there are so many strong songs on it- to include a mega hit and a decent sized hit.

I need to be especially complimentary of your take on SOI! Thematically and sonicly, it's just such a coherent, consistent album. Even though I come back to SOE more for some reason I can't quite explain, I try never to lose sight of how fantastic SOI is. I especially like you holding up Raised by Wolves. Such a poignant, visceral, powerfully emotional song. Storytelling building suspense. Vivid lyrics. The piano and guitar work by Edge. Bono and Larry exploding at all the right points and Adam keeping the haunting, heavy atmosphere up with the bass. Then you had the live performances. RBW doesn't get enough credit. In my mind, you are quite right to say that song alone should give SOI alot of points. I could've heard RBW first and without hearing anything else, say the album couldn't get below a 3 star rating from me. It should certainly be enough to knock down the "crap album" argument many people repeated irrationally due to the Apple debacle.

I love your last sentence. I'm so happy they're still here and consider us very lucky as fans. I consider myself more lucky than most because, as corny as it sounds, SOI and SOE both resonated with exactly where I was in life when they were released.

[AndrewCowley]

Originally Posted by U2387

guitar work by Edge.

What are we discussing again? Can’t be SOI.