Re: Eno and Lanois writing credits

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Brian Eno's book (On Some Faraway Beach: The Life and Times of Brian Eno -- which came out just before/just after NLOTH makes it clear.

Eno/Lanois have offered songwriting and arrangement ideas all along. I think this was a sore point with Eno (perhaps Lanois too). The songwriting credit for NLOTH, if memory serves, was at Eno's wife's urging. She is Eno's manager.

NLOTH it was agreed to give them a credit and a larger role. I think there was an acknowledgement at the beginning of NLOTH that it was a 6 person vs. 4 person band for that album.

I think that acknowledgement lent them to some of the more Eno-esque/Lanois-nian bits on NLOTH. (ie: Cedars of Lebanon, White As Snow, Fez, Moment of Surrender). Heck, Eno even said he thought that 'Moment of Surrender' should have been the first single.

That said, there were disagreements. I've heard from one source that interviewed Lanois during the time of the 360 tour, that he (Lanois) and Larry had had some serious disagreements regarding NLOTH. I believe the term used was 'a falling out'.

So... chances of them working together might be greatly diminished.

So have Eno and Lanois always been members? No. Have they contributed to the songwriting and arranging? Yes, probably more often than one might think. But that is not to say they are writing the bulk of the tunes.

Steve Lillywhite has also been brought in to do a lot of re-recording and mixing. It was Lillywhite that said 'Sometimes You Can't Make It...' didn't have a real chorus, and they re-wrote/re-arrange/re-recorded the song (for HTDAAB). Should Lillywhite get a writing credit for arrangement ideas? I suppose that it up to the band.

As for Eno being upset about ATYCLB... That is probably why he and Danny didn't work on HTDAAB. I imagine that as ATYCLB sold well, won Grammy's... they might have thought twice about just letting go of credits; wanting their contributions to be acknowledged and to receive the fruits of their labor (residuals).




JOFO said:
It's no secret that Eno and Lanois had a hand in the writing process this time around. In fact, the band made that clear when they began in Fez. They also made clear that none of the material from the previous Rick Rubin session made it to the album.
Here's the question: does this scenario lean towards
1) Eno and Lanois contributions to NLOTH were much more pronounced in terms of song ideas, creation of songs, chord changes, melodies, arrangements, and production as well. This was a first with them regarding working with U2.
2) Eno and Lanois contributed ideas the same way they had on such albums as UF, JT, AB, and ATYCB, but this time decided, or U2 decided, that they would receive real credit for what they brought to the table. There was a disagreement between Eno and U2 regarding his contributions to ATYCLB.

I think the theory could go either way. However, if it is indeed theory 2, does that mean that in effect Eno and Lanois have either always been "members" of u2, or that from this point on, they will be, at least in terms of writing in the studio.
Have we seen the last of "Words: Bono, Music:U2"?
Click to expand...
 
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Edge Orchestra thanks for direction to the proper source. I went to my local bookstore this morning and spent an hour reading every single u2-related page. Figure I'll mention my findings to save possible others the hunt.

First off, it seems like a pretty through book on Eno's career if that's what your interested in. But if you're only interested in the u2 related stories- do not buy this book. Out of 430ish pages, there was a total of 4 pages on meeting u2 and UF era, 2 pgs on JT, 1 pg on AB, 1pg on Zooropa, 1 pg on passengers, and 1 pg on ATYCLB/Bomb/no line combined.

Here are the take aways;
- first ever phone call to Eno was by Larry
- eno was credited specifically for saving the song Promenade for the UF album
- re UF album "he also emerged somewhat richer. Opal (Eno's management, led by his wife) had negotiated a generous 'points' royalty with Island and the band's manager Paul McGuinness."
- re decision to come back for JT album "the obdurate Eno continued to prevaricate over the u2 production job and tried to install Conny Plank in his place, arranging a spring 1986 meeting between Plank and the band. After the summit, the doughty German decided to decline the offer. Bono was the stumbling block: " I cannot work with that singer" he was alleged to have grumbled."
- on a side note I personally have always wondered about what led to the Edges involvement in the 96 Undark Russell Mills album. Never had heard much written about it, but this book reveals that Eno and Mills has been friends for decades and u2 became friends with him back in the 80's as well. "Russell mills has several surprisingly heart-warming Bono stories, not least one about a boozy night at the Royal Oak which ended at 4am with the sloshed singer straddling the bar wearing a gas mask and belting out Happy Birthday to the tearful Irish landlord". Another side note- mills did the artwork for NiN and may be the connection piece for u2 (expecially Edge) listening to NiN while writing AB- but this is purely my own speculation.
- at one point during the AB process he thought it was a total disaster. "eno didn't want his name on a record that sounded like that..... he particularly wanted to put a song called the Real Thing behind bars then throw away the key. 'I really thought The Real Thing was not something they should bother doing. The lyric originally said something like 'There ain't nothing like the real thing' , and I said, 'Real is such a stupid word, come on, don't you know what philosophers are talking about now? Real is not a word you can seriously use any more. This song has got to be more ironic. I really wanted them to leave it off the record, but to their credit they didn't, and it turns out to have been a good choice."
- "Eno's other famous infamous executive decision on AB was to insist on the band taking a two week holiday just as the records delivery deadline was looming. After just two weeks without listening to it, they came back, listened to the tapes, and suddenly they were able to make pretty quick and clear decisions."
- bono was invited to Bowies June 92 wedding to Iman, but was almost a no-show, having missed his flight from Dublin, he arrived in time for the photos.
- passengers album had the original working title of Cinema.
- " after the release of How to Dismantle An atomic Bomb Eno had his first substantial falling out with Bono and Co. The problem was an old bug bear, writing credits. Anthea ( his wife and manager) told me that Brian was upset that he hadn't received a share of the authorship on many of the songs he felt he'd helped sculpt on the band's recent albums. U2, famously, always kept songwriting within the group ( Passengers album being given one notable exception). It was not, Anthea stressed, a matter of royalty payments per se ( Brian apparently still refuses to be told what he's being paid for such major projects), but one of author recognition. Subsequently, bono phoned Brian to offer an olive branch. On the next u2 record, the band would contravene their own rule and begin by co-writing with Brian (a process that began in Morocco in 2007). "

So, it appears that the resentment was after Bomb, not just ATYCLB. Perhaps the tipping point was when when Bomb did so well (critically and Grammys), and Eno's name wasn't at the forefront with Lanois like on AtYCLB- but was instead lost in the mix with the 4-5 other producers Lilly white, Nellie Hooper, Chris Thomas, Flood, etc. Especially if he felt the Skelton and bones of those Bomb songs were leftovers from his ATYCLB sessions.

Hope this helps- and for those that care, everything in " ___ " are exact quotes I copied out of the book.
 
marik said:
Edge Orchestra thanks for direction to the proper source. I went to my local bookstore this morning and spent an hour reading every single u2-related page. Figure I'll mention my findings to save possible others the hunt.

First off, it seems like a pretty through book on Eno's career if that's what your interested in. But if you're only interested in the u2 related stories- do not buy this book. Out of 430ish pages, there was a total of 4 pages on meeting u2 and UF era, 2 pgs on JT, 1 pg on AB, 1pg on Zooropa, 1 pg on passengers, and 1 pg on ATYCLB/Bomb/no line combined.

Here are the take aways;
- first ever phone call to Eno was by Larry
- eno was credited specifically for saving the song Promenade for the UF album
- re UF album "he also emerged somewhat richer. Opal (Eno's management, led by his wife) had negotiated a generous 'points' royalty with Island and the band's manager Paul McGuinness."
- re decision to come back for JT album "the obdurate Eno continued to prevaricate over the u2 production job and tried to install Conny Plank in his place, arranging a spring 1986 meeting between Plank and the band. After the summit, the doughty German decided to decline the offer. Bono was the stumbling block: " I cannot work with that singer" he was alleged to have grumbled."
- on a side note I personally have always wondered about what led to the Edges involvement in the 96 Undark Russell Mills album. Never had heard much written about it, but this book reveals that Eno and Mills has been friends for decades and u2 became friends with him back in the 80's as well. "Russell mills has several surprisingly heart-warming Bono stories, not least one about a boozy night at the Royal Oak which ended at 4am with the sloshed singer straddling the bar wearing a gas mask and belting out Happy Birthday to the tearful Irish landlord". Another side note- mills did the artwork for NiN and may be the connection piece for u2 (expecially Edge) listening to NiN while writing AB- but this is purely my own speculation.
- at one point during the AB process he thought it was a total disaster. "eno didn't want his name on a record that sounded like that..... he particularly wanted to put a song called the Real Thing behind bars then throw away the key. 'I really thought The Real Thing was not something they should bother doing. The lyric originally said something like 'There ain't nothing like the real thing' , and I said, 'Real is such a stupid word, come on, don't you know what philosophers are talking about now? Real is not a word you can seriously use any more. This song has got to be more ironic. I really wanted them to leave it off the record, but to their credit they didn't, and it turns out to have been a good choice."
- "Eno's other famous infamous executive decision on AB was to insist on the band taking a two week holiday just as the records delivery deadline was looming. After just two weeks without listening to it, they came back, listened to the tapes, and suddenly they were able to make pretty quick and clear decisions."
- bono was invited to Bowies June 92 wedding to Iman, but was almost a no-show, having missed his flight from Dublin, he arrived in time for the photos.
- passengers album had the original working title of Cinema.
- " after the release of How to Dismantle An atomic Bomb Eno had his first substantial falling out with Bono and Co. The problem was an old bug bear, writing credits. Anthea ( his wife and manager) told me that Brian was upset that he hadn't received a share of the authorship on many of the songs he felt he'd helped sculpt on the band's recent albums. U2, famously, always kept songwriting within the group ( Passengers album being given one notable exception). It was not, Anthea stressed, a matter of royalty payments per se ( Brian apparently still refuses to be told what he's being paid for such major projects), but one of author recognition. Subsequently, bono phoned Brian to offer an olive branch. On the next u2 record, the band would contravene their own rule and begin by co-writing with Brian (a process that began in Morocco in 2007). "

So, it appears that the resentment was after Bomb, not just ATYCLB. Perhaps the tipping point was when when Bomb did so well (critically and Grammys), and Eno's name wasn't at the forefront with Lanois like on AtYCLB- but was instead lost in the mix with the 4-5 other producers Lilly white, Nellie Hooper, Chris Thomas, Flood, etc. Especially if he felt the Skelton and bones of those Bomb songs were leftovers from his ATYCLB sessions.

Hope this helps- and for those that care, everything in " ___ " are exact quotes I copied out of the book.
Click to expand...

Eno did very little work on 'Atomic Bomb'. What little work he did may have salvaged a song or so. I suspect 'One Step Closer' might be the one or one of them. So if '...Bomb' was the breaking point, it was the straw. I think the load was the work that he and Danny put into 'ATYCLB'.

As for money, Anthea makes sure Brian gets paid. He's famously stated he'd NOT been paid for his work on 'Are We Not Men (We Are Devo)' album. Other sources say that he was later paid points on subsequent releases
 
Anything Eno can do to challenge the band against their own perceptions of strengths, weaknesses and focus on radio is continually welcomed and sorely missed.
 
Edge_Orchestra said:
. I've heard from one source that interviewed Lanois during the time of the 360 tour, that he (Lanois) and Larry had had some serious disagreements regarding NLOTH. I believe the term used was 'a falling out'.

So... chances of them working together might be greatly diminished.
Click to expand...

I was wondering about this recently. Does anyone know any more about Larry and Lanois/Eno's falling out after NLOTH? I know Larry hated Passengers - so I can see that his crankiness with composing more abstract/moody songs is at odds with Eno's preferences.

Is there any more documentation of the relationship between Eno and U2 after NLOTH? Is Eno finally too sick of U2 to work with them again?
 
I seem to recall Eno throwing a small bit of shade at U2 at some point after what the band did with NLOTH, but I can't recall exactly what it was. If anyone remembers what he said or has a link, I'd love to see it. Honestly at this point I can't remember if it was Brian or Danny or both who had some mild criticism of the band. In any event, I don't think it was that big a deal and I'm sure all is well between all parties.

Though I am doubtful that Eno at least will ever produce another U2 record.
 
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Nick66 said:
I seem to recall Eno throwing a small bit of shade at U2 at some point after what the band did with NLOTH, but I can't recall exactly what it was. If anyone remembers what he said or has a link, I'd love to see it. Honestly at this point I can't remember if it was Brian or Danny or both who had some mild criticism of the band. In any event, I don't think it was that big a deal and I'm sure all is well between all parties.

Though I am doubtful that Eno at least will ever produce another U2 record.
Click to expand...

I remember in a Rolling Stone quip that Eno jokingly ribbed U2 for not releasing a long experimental piece recorded during the NLOTH sessions.

He might have even referenced the cut by name, I can't recall.
 
Mac_Fly said:
I remember in a Rolling Stone quip that Eno jokingly ribbed U2 for not releasing a long experimental piece recorded during the NLOTH sessions.

He might have even referenced the cut by name, I can't recall.
Click to expand...

Well, he didn't like them leaving Winter off:

" Eno is irked that the band has dropped some of the more contemplative and adventurous songs it developed. "Tell them they're being stupid c*nts," he jokes, after playing a lovely discarded ballad called Winter."


Brian Eno is MORE DARK THAN SHARK
 
A recent article said Eno was given a crack at producing Little Things. Doesn’t seem like that would have happened if they hated each other.
 
I seem to remember Eno being depressed over the fact that they spent months chasing Crazy Tonight, but conjured up the majority of MOS in like 10 minutes.
 
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Eno was at the Twickenham gig I went to back in July and Bono specifically mentioned him and his importance to the Joshua Tree album. Hardly a sign of “hatred”.
 
marik said:
Edge Orchestra thanks for direction to the proper source. I went to my local bookstore this morning and spent an hour reading every single u2-related page. Figure I'll mention my findings to save possible others the hunt.

First off, it seems like a pretty through book on Eno's career if that's what your interested in. But if you're only interested in the u2 related stories- do not buy this book. Out of 430ish pages, there was a total of 4 pages on meeting u2 and UF era, 2 pgs on JT, 1 pg on AB, 1pg on Zooropa, 1 pg on passengers, and 1 pg on ATYCLB/Bomb/no line combined.

Here are the take aways;
- first ever phone call to Eno was by Larry
- eno was credited specifically for saving the song Promenade for the UF album
- re UF album "he also emerged somewhat richer. Opal (Eno's management, led by his wife) had negotiated a generous 'points' royalty with Island and the band's manager Paul McGuinness."
- re decision to come back for JT album "the obdurate Eno continued to prevaricate over the u2 production job and tried to install Conny Plank in his place, arranging a spring 1986 meeting between Plank and the band. After the summit, the doughty German decided to decline the offer. Bono was the stumbling block: " I cannot work with that singer" he was alleged to have grumbled."
- on a side note I personally have always wondered about what led to the Edges involvement in the 96 Undark Russell Mills album. Never had heard much written about it, but this book reveals that Eno and Mills has been friends for decades and u2 became friends with him back in the 80's as well. "Russell mills has several surprisingly heart-warming Bono stories, not least one about a boozy night at the Royal Oak which ended at 4am with the sloshed singer straddling the bar wearing a gas mask and belting out Happy Birthday to the tearful Irish landlord". Another side note- mills did the artwork for NiN and may be the connection piece for u2 (expecially Edge) listening to NiN while writing AB- but this is purely my own speculation.
- at one point during the AB process he thought it was a total disaster. "eno didn't want his name on a record that sounded like that..... he particularly wanted to put a song called the Real Thing behind bars then throw away the key. 'I really thought The Real Thing was not something they should bother doing. The lyric originally said something like 'There ain't nothing like the real thing' , and I said, 'Real is such a stupid word, come on, don't you know what philosophers are talking about now? Real is not a word you can seriously use any more. This song has got to be more ironic. I really wanted them to leave it off the record, but to their credit they didn't, and it turns out to have been a good choice."
- "Eno's other famous infamous executive decision on AB was to insist on the band taking a two week holiday just as the records delivery deadline was looming. After just two weeks without listening to it, they came back, listened to the tapes, and suddenly they were able to make pretty quick and clear decisions."
- bono was invited to Bowies June 92 wedding to Iman, but was almost a no-show, having missed his flight from Dublin, he arrived in time for the photos.
- passengers album had the original working title of Cinema.
- " after the release of How to Dismantle An atomic Bomb Eno had his first substantial falling out with Bono and Co. The problem was an old bug bear, writing credits. Anthea ( his wife and manager) told me that Brian was upset that he hadn't received a share of the authorship on many of the songs he felt he'd helped sculpt on the band's recent albums. U2, famously, always kept songwriting within the group ( Passengers album being given one notable exception). It was not, Anthea stressed, a matter of royalty payments per se ( Brian apparently still refuses to be told what he's being paid for such major projects), but one of author recognition. Subsequently, bono phoned Brian to offer an olive branch. On the next u2 record, the band would contravene their own rule and begin by co-writing with Brian (a process that began in Morocco in 2007). "

So, it appears that the resentment was after Bomb, not just ATYCLB. Perhaps the tipping point was when when Bomb did so well (critically and Grammys), and Eno's name wasn't at the forefront with Lanois like on AtYCLB- but was instead lost in the mix with the 4-5 other producers Lilly white, Nellie Hooper, Chris Thomas, Flood, etc. Especially if he felt the Skelton and bones of those Bomb songs were leftovers from his ATYCLB sessions.

Hope this helps- and for those that care, everything in " ___ " are exact quotes I copied out of the book.
Click to expand...


Very interesting read thanks for posting this.
 
U2freakboy said:
A recent article said Eno was given a crack at producing Little Things. Doesn’t seem like that would have happened if they hated each other.
Click to expand...

I'd presume the fact Eno had a go at it means that it's a song that has been floating around since the No Line sessions.

It certainly sounds like a U2 written number, as opposed to a cheap imitation that Ryan Tedder has tried to turn them into on a few occasions.
 
MattD said:
I'd presume the fact Eno had a go at it means that it's a song that has been floating around since the No Line sessions.

It certainly sounds like a U2 written number, as opposed to a cheap imitation that Ryan Tedder has tried to turn them into on a few occasions.
Click to expand...
You mean like Love Is Bigger Than Anything In Its Way? :hyper:
 
MattD said:
I'd presume the fact Eno had a go at it means that it's a song that has been floating around since the No Line sessions.

It certainly sounds like a U2 written number, as opposed to a cheap imitation that Ryan Tedder has tried to turn them into on a few occasions.
Click to expand...
Or Summer of Love?
 
Montrose said:
Well, he didn't like them leaving Winter off:

" Eno is irked that the band has dropped some of the more contemplative and adventurous songs it developed. "Tell them they're being stupid c*nts," he jokes, after playing a lovely discarded ballad called Winter."


Brian Eno is MORE DARK THAN SHARK
Click to expand...

he also complained about them slaving over Stand Up Comedy and Crazy Tonight - purpose-built hits - when magic like Moment of Surrender comes easily to them, and then they chop that up. He said it was the best experience he ever had in the studio, and they're supposed to be so spiritual but can't tell when something magical happens. I don't think it would matter to them that he said that publicly though; he probably used harsher language in private.

I really hope they do another album because Lanois has been doing some incredible things, but U2's commitment to making pop music probably precludes them from making the kind of album that Eno and Lanois would want to be involved with.
 
My wishlist:

--Rent out a mansion (or use their own) in Dublin for a year
--Get Danny and Brian to produce / write
--Tell Bono NO POLITICS for a year. Assuming this be their last album, he can go full on after it's done
--Have the band be together as much as possible during recording, no more sending files to each other
--Release album after 14 months (12 recording, 2 months to get the mixing and order complete)
--Bono is forced to become a starving poet
--Ban any classic rock from reaching Edge's ears

NO TEDDER
 
Hollow Island said:
he also complained about them slaving over Stand Up Comedy and Crazy Tonight - purpose-built hits - when magic like Moment of Surrender comes easily to them, and then they chop that up. He said it was the best experience he ever had in the studio, and they're supposed to be so spiritual but can't tell when something magical happens. I don't think it would matter to them that he said that publicly though; he probably used harsher language in private.

I really hope they do another album because Lanois has been doing some incredible things, but U2's commitment to making pop music probably precludes them from making the kind of album that Eno and Lanois would want to be involved with.
Click to expand...

Posted before...I'm sure...but worth a re-post in this context:

 
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