Inner El Guapo
War Child
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2004
- Messages
- 609
I think the impact that most producers have on the finished product is overstated. Unless it's someone like Eno, who actually plays instruments or writes with the band. (and has a very close working relationship with the artist). Rubin's influence (both good and bad) is drastically overstated. He does have a close relationship with RHCP and Slayer and acts he's worked with for decades but still...he's not out there talking about chord progressions and shit, he's mainly concerned with an already (basically) finished product.
Rubin doesn't give U2 anything they don't already have.
Besides, it's two different creative approaches entirely.
I'm afraid all that would mean for us is more DELAYS.
The reason Death Magnetic and HTDAAB and so many records sound so 'harsh' and 'overdriven' is not because of the failure of Rubin and Lillywhite, respectively, it's because some fuckface mastered it too loud, specifically so it would sound more 'impressive'. And thus is the mentality of the entertainment industry, louder is better in music and more assplosions (in movies) are better. Only because it attracts more mouth-breathers to buy the product.
To take a specific U2 example, there are problems across the board on HTDAAB. Crumbs and COBL are likely, both, mixed badly or even worse (and thus, less likely) recorded badly. My guess is these two songs sounded fine before the volume levels were fucked by the mixer and then some asshole got a hold of them during the mastering phase and made it worse.
If you can picture COBL with it's asinine bass level. The problem, IMO, is that the bass volume level started off too high, in the mixing phase. And when it gets mastered, the sponge is squeezed and you are stuck with more bass than anything else. So while squeezing the sponge was always going to suck some life (dynamics) out of the rest of it, the mixing level was so high on the bass, it actually made it worse than it would have been otherwise.
The melodic piano bit sounds too high as well, so maybe it's a case of the guitar, vocals and drums being too low, but I doubt it. I think they wanted to brow-beat us with that tinkling piano melody hoping it would stick in our heads. I can almost see Bono saying "make that louder!" Blind speculation, of course but I like my guesstimations about that.
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What U2 need is a different creative catalyst, which is primarily what Eno has been for them, that they can trust. They tried it with Howie B. But I'd like to see someone push them in that direction who has a little more...gravitas than Howie B, and different from Eno, who has been working with the band so long, it's going to be difficult to push to new boundaries. Someone like Trent Reznor, why the fuck not? Or bring him in for new musical (certainly not lyrical) ideas (catalyst) and then have Edge polish the rest of it off. At the very least it's a new approach (for U2) to creating SOUND. And for those not familiar, he's a hell of a lot more than just distorted guitars and aggro industrial sound. Dude is a master of samples, synths and strange percussive loops (among whatever else). And his textures are varied from industrial metal to dance to subtle melodic ditties but mostly I am talking about just a new sound, some kind of new additives to the U2 wall of sound.
Whatever the case, I can deal with Eno and Lanois again or Flood but I think they'd be better served with any number of producers not named 'Rick Rubin'.
Like many of you, I like Rubin and own many of those albums he's produced, but he doesn't give U2 anything that they would rely on. They wouldn't even fully trust his biggest strength, IMO (his ears). Otherwise, why didn't Chris Thomas work for them? Because they weren't trusting his ears.
Rubin doesn't give U2 anything they don't already have.
Besides, it's two different creative approaches entirely.
I'm afraid all that would mean for us is more DELAYS.
The reason Death Magnetic and HTDAAB and so many records sound so 'harsh' and 'overdriven' is not because of the failure of Rubin and Lillywhite, respectively, it's because some fuckface mastered it too loud, specifically so it would sound more 'impressive'. And thus is the mentality of the entertainment industry, louder is better in music and more assplosions (in movies) are better. Only because it attracts more mouth-breathers to buy the product.
To take a specific U2 example, there are problems across the board on HTDAAB. Crumbs and COBL are likely, both, mixed badly or even worse (and thus, less likely) recorded badly. My guess is these two songs sounded fine before the volume levels were fucked by the mixer and then some asshole got a hold of them during the mastering phase and made it worse.
If you can picture COBL with it's asinine bass level. The problem, IMO, is that the bass volume level started off too high, in the mixing phase. And when it gets mastered, the sponge is squeezed and you are stuck with more bass than anything else. So while squeezing the sponge was always going to suck some life (dynamics) out of the rest of it, the mixing level was so high on the bass, it actually made it worse than it would have been otherwise.
The melodic piano bit sounds too high as well, so maybe it's a case of the guitar, vocals and drums being too low, but I doubt it. I think they wanted to brow-beat us with that tinkling piano melody hoping it would stick in our heads. I can almost see Bono saying "make that louder!" Blind speculation, of course but I like my guesstimations about that.
_____________________________________________________________
What U2 need is a different creative catalyst, which is primarily what Eno has been for them, that they can trust. They tried it with Howie B. But I'd like to see someone push them in that direction who has a little more...gravitas than Howie B, and different from Eno, who has been working with the band so long, it's going to be difficult to push to new boundaries. Someone like Trent Reznor, why the fuck not? Or bring him in for new musical (certainly not lyrical) ideas (catalyst) and then have Edge polish the rest of it off. At the very least it's a new approach (for U2) to creating SOUND. And for those not familiar, he's a hell of a lot more than just distorted guitars and aggro industrial sound. Dude is a master of samples, synths and strange percussive loops (among whatever else). And his textures are varied from industrial metal to dance to subtle melodic ditties but mostly I am talking about just a new sound, some kind of new additives to the U2 wall of sound.
Whatever the case, I can deal with Eno and Lanois again or Flood but I think they'd be better served with any number of producers not named 'Rick Rubin'.
Like many of you, I like Rubin and own many of those albums he's produced, but he doesn't give U2 anything that they would rely on. They wouldn't even fully trust his biggest strength, IMO (his ears). Otherwise, why didn't Chris Thomas work for them? Because they weren't trusting his ears.
Loudness is an issue, not the producer.
to me.
They've only been a rock band their entire career
Seriously, rock is what these guys do, even their well known mid tempos and ballads are done in a rock arrangement- Bad, WOWY, etc. The only case anyone has for anything other than rock for a U2 genre is Passengers.
