on Danger Mouse's production

[The Slow Loris]

Isn't 'Window in the Skies' in an unusual timing?

 

[cobl04]

It does not necessarily have to make it inferior, but sometimes it does. And taking one of the worst songs U2 has ever committed to recorded memory and comparing it to one of the best progressive hard rock albums ever is not the best example to make this argument.

I was talking about the title track, not the whole album (which I haven't and likely won't listen to).

 

[lazarus]

Nope. Dance was very much in the mainstream, if not the mainstream, in 1997. Much as I like the album as a whole and love many of the tracks individually, Pop was in fact a bit late to the party.

Which is why I specified the period when they were recording the music, not when POP finally came out.

Late 1996/Early 1997 was a pretty big period for that music becoming mainstream, and U2 appearing like late bandwagoners instead of early adapters didn't help the album's ultimate fate.

But, my more important point: U2 was commissioning dance remixes for 10 years already by then, and was already exploring various forms of electronic music since 1990. The very dancey Lemon was a single in 1993, and Even Better Than The Real Thing had an alternate single of various remixes released for it in 1992. So the suggestion that they suddenly decided to aim for the mainstream with their approach to Pop is ludicrous and dishonest. Which is par for the course with the poster we're talking about.

 

[gvox]

So the suggestion that they suddenly decided to aim for the mainstream with their approach to Pop is ludicrous and dishonest

Yeah I see what you mean now..agreed.

 

[U2DMfan]

Which is why I specified the period when they were recording the music, not when POP finally came out.

Late 1996/Early 1997 was a pretty big period for that music becoming mainstream, and U2 appearing like late bandwagoners instead of early adapters didn't help the album's ultimate fate.

Yep. It was certainly not lost on me what you said. But especially given that we've had this exact discussion a few times over the years. Had POP not been delayed this would not even be a discussion.

In fact, you could easily argue that POP was probably more electronic early in '96, as opposed to late in '96 because they began scaling it back towards more of a straight rock sound.

So it's bullshit, of course. Which is why U2Girl argues it all the time.

Remember it all well. Dig Your Own Hole, Vegas and Fat of the Land all three came out after POP anyway. And stuff like Fatboy Slim's big one and Ray of Light were even after. Daft Punk was around there too, i think.

Of course stuff like Massive Attack, Tricky and Portishead predated this, but I don't think you could say it was mainstream.

 

[corianderstem]

Isn't 'Window in the Skies' in an unusual timing?

No, it's just a straight "waltz" feel, 3/4 or 6/8 or what-have-you.

 

[The Slow Loris]

No, it's just a straight "waltz" feel, 3/4 or 6/8 or what-have-you.

I guess I meant unusual for U2. I don't think they have any other 6/8 songs, do they?

 

[lazarus]

Isn't 'Window in the Skies' in an unusual timing?

Was too busy thinking about how awful it was to notice the time signature.

I've probably listened to it twice.

Remember it all well. Dig Your Own Hole, Vegas and Fat of the Land all three came out after POP anyway. And stuff like Fatboy Slim's big one and Ray of Light were even after. Daft Punk was around there too, i think.

Of course stuff like Massive Attack, Tricky and Portishead predated this, but I don't think you could say it was mainstream.

Exactly. Those are precisely the big releases I was referring too, and I don't think the trip hop albums you mentioned really count; only Miami and Playboy Mansion reflect that style.

 

[mama cass]

I guess I meant unusual for U2. I don't think they have any other 6/8 songs, do they?

more than you would think... Acrobat, in 6/8 or 3/4 depending on how fast you want to count, and also Love is Blindness...

 

[pacemaker]

I guess I meant unusual for U2. I don't think they have any other 6/8 songs, do they?

Breathe and Acrobat have been mentioned in this thread so far. Love Is Blindness, Slow Dancing, Love Rescue Me, Trip Through Your Wires and Race Against Time are some other songs that are in 3/4 or 6/8.

 

[cobl04]

Exactly. Those are precisely the big releases I was referring too, and I don't think the trip hop albums you mentioned really count; only Miami and Playboy Mansion reflect that style.

Two horrifically underrated tracks. Second half of Pop is better than the first.

 

[*I*]

The ability to produce something live. Humans in a room, playing. That's the qualitative difference between good musicianship (or some might argue musicianship at all) and not.

Some might argue good musicianship is simply the ability to turn sound into something people want to hear.

 

[*I*]

delete plz

 

[*I*]

I was talking about the title track, not the whole album (which I haven't and likely won't listen to).

Tool - Disposition, Reflection, Triad - YouTube

 

[*I*]

Two horrifically underrated tracks. Second half of Pop is better than the first.

easily. Angels kills the first half. Replace with a properly finished holy joe and Pop wouldve sounded way more daring and cohesive. Top that off with a vertigo tour discoteque and its one of the greats.

 

[nielsgov]

And the importance of time signatures is?

I can't even tell what time signature a certain song is in.

 

[LemonMelon]

You pretty much just count how many beats it is until the chord progression starts over. Most of the time, you can count out loud and get a feel for it just counting to four (a 4/4 time signature). If it feels strange to count to four, three will probably work better, and in that case the song is in 3/4. For stranger time signatures, just wait for the melody to loop again and don't stop counting until it feels as if the next line has started. One I really like is I Say A Little Prayer, which has a chorus in 11/4. The part where she goes "Forever, forever, you'll stay in my heart/And I will love you" takes 11 beats before the melody starts over. That's the top number.

The bottom number tells you what kind of notes you're working with. Most of the time the bottom number in a pop/rock song is going to be 4, but if it feels right to count faster than that, sometimes it'll be an 8 or 16. A lot of people say that Acrobat is in 6/8 and not 3/4 because it's too fast to be a waltz, so splitting the notes works better. There are notes that aren't multiples of four, but that shit goes way beyond my minimal expertise.

That's a layman explanation, but it's easy enough to do if you know what you're looking for.

 

[Salome]

If musical proficiency counted for anything people would only listen to jazz, Frank Zappa and Dillinger Escape Plan.
So what ...

The problem with POP is not so much bandwagon hopping as that after 10 years of experimenting with electronics they came up with an album that mostly felt tame compared to whatever else was out there. They should have changed course before POP.


While I'm tempted to say U2 should only record with Eno + Lanois, it's hard to deny that the combo U2 + Dangermouse has all the potential to be awesome.
It will be interesting to see what the first single will be like, but for some reason I don't think it will be too indicative of the album's sound.

 

[U2girl]

Q Magazine
Simply, what this amounts to is the best U2 album since "Achtung Baby"

Rolling Stone
U2's first album in nearly five years and their best, in its textural exploration and tenacious melodic grip, since 1991's "Achtung Baby."


Two pretty high-profile raves. More credible than some a guy from Dream Theatre.

Rolling Stone also said ATYCLB was their third masterpiece.

 

[Diemen]

Well this is awfully productive dialogue.

 

[lazarus]

Rolling Stone also said ATYCLB was their third masterpiece.

Way too focus only on the review and ignore the more important points that myself and U2DMfan were making about your accusation of the band trying to go mainstream with POP.

You're so predictable.

 

[mikal]

If Rolling Stone says it, it's gotta be true!

 

[U2girl]

Electronic music wasn't mainstream when they were recording that album. Or the heavily-electronic one before it. There's a gradual exploration in this direction beginning with Zooropa (plus the slew of dance remixes they'd commissioned and released since the late 80s), so I'm not sure why you're stuck on the idea that they suddenly tried to jump on a trend.

Nice try, though.

Were it not for briptpop in the early 90's it would easily be the biggest rising new genre in UK and Europe. And U2 has soaked up influences from there. Think of Bono and Edge enjoying club music as early as AB recording. And their quotes how U2's music finally made it onto the dancefloor and not being embarassed about it.

It's just that they were more sly about it on AB and Zooropa. It's better in execution. It becomes a bit repetitive by the time of Pop, and somewhat desperate with the full on coming of Prodigy/Chemical brothers et al onto the scene. A DJ produced it, even. (some would say the songs were better on the previous two albums but that's another story). Remember U2 had to come off the reinvention of AB, and unlike Zooropa, this was the first real follow up album for a lot of people. I think a straight up guitar album - as was hyped in the early stages - would have come across better.

Then again, it's a sellout record when they do a straightforward half-acoustic melodic songwriting record in the flood of bubblegum pop everywhere, and rap/hip hop double headed monster about to follow at the break of millenium.

 

[U2girl]

Way too focus only on the review and ignore the more important points that myself and U2DMfan were making about your accusation of the band trying to go mainstream with POP.

You're so predictable.

I was referring to the reviews about NLOTH you quoted. Surely you remember how people balked at 5 stars for ATYCLB from the same magazine that gave 5 stars to NLOTH. I believe Q is also among the more U2-synchopantic magazines...

 

[U2girl]

Way too focus only on the review and ignore the more important points that myself and U2DMfan were making about your accusation of the band trying to go mainstream with POP.

The repetitive "this is bullshit" party line ?

 

[Registered Dude]

save these off-topic conversations for the new album thread!

 

[The Slow Loris]

Anyone seen or heard anything about Danger Mouse lately? You'd think he would have mentioned something to someone about his experience working with U2 over the past 2 years....especially now that it's coming to an end?

 

[jeevey]

Gag.

Order.

 

[lazarus]

Were it not for briptpop in the early 90's it would easily be the biggest rising new genre in UK and Europe. And U2 has soaked up influences from there. Think of Bono and Edge enjoying club music as early as AB recording. And their quotes how U2's music finally made it onto the dancefloor and not being embarassed about it.

It's just that they were more sly about it on AB and Zooropa. It's better in execution. It becomes a bit repetitive by the time of Pop, and somewhat desperate with the full on coming of Prodigy/Chemical brothers et al onto the scene. A DJ produced it, even. (some would say the songs were better on the previous two albums but that's another story). Remember U2 had to come off the reinvention of AB, and unlike Zooropa, this was the first real follow up album for a lot of people. I think a straight up guitar album - as was hyped in the early stages - would have come across better.

Then again, it's a sellout record when they do a straightforward half-acoustic melodic songwriting record in the flood of bubblegum pop everywhere, and rap/hip hop double headed monster about to follow at the break of millenium.

I don't think most ATYCLB call it a "sellout" as much as they simply feel it's watered down and too blunt and trite in its sentiments.

I've read your first paragraph and I don't understand your point at all, other than how it's agreeing with what I've already said. You admit that the band was into electronic music earlier on. Hiring Howie B. just isn't enough to call POP a desperate attempt at going mainstream. And as U2DMfan stated earlier, The Prodigy didn't truly break through until The Fat Of The Land (released months after POP), same with Chemical Brothers and Dig Your Own Hole (a month after POP). Regardless, when U2 was in the planning/recording process, the genre had not taken off to the extent you're claiming it was.

Had the album not been delayed, there's no question it would have sounded fresher because you're talking a whole season of electronic music acquiring new fans right during the period it was ramping up.

 

[The Slow Loris]

I don't think most ATYCLB call it a "sellout" as much as they simply feel it's watered down and too blunt and trite in its sentiments.

I've read your first paragraph and I don't understand your point at all, other than how it's agreeing with what I've already said. You admit that the band was into electronic music earlier on. Hiring Howie B. just isn't enough to call POP a desperate attempt at going mainstream. And as U2DMfan stated earlier, The Prodigy didn't truly break through until The Fat Of The Land (released months after POP), same with Chemical Brothers and Dig Your Own Hole (a month after POP). Regardless, when U2 was in the planning/recording process, the genre had not taken off to the extent you're claiming it was.

Had the album not been delayed, there's no question it would have sounded fresher because you're talking a whole season of electronic music acquiring new fans right during the period it was ramping up.

I totally agree with pretty much everything in this post. I must say, however, I don't really see the whole "U2 going mainstream" thing. It's kind of like saying the sky is going blue. U2 have always been mainstream. And they have been honest about it. They want to be that band -- that band you hear at the mall, that band you hear coming out of your neighbor's car as he pulls into his driveway, that band that you hear at the pub, or even the club. They have always wanted to be the biggest band in the world, going back to 1979, when they spoke of themselves in the vein of The Beatles, The Stones, and The Who. What they don't want to be, is a band that merely blends into the mainstream. That's why Bono said this during the 1994 Grammys (the date is wrong as I remember):
Bono Accepts Grammy for Best Alternative Act - 1995 - YouTube