NLOTH vs. UF

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I got TUF when it came out. I was 12 years old and it was my introduction to the band, and really into better music in general. It was a coming of age. I didn't really even have words to describe how the music made me feel.

Rationally, I can pick TUF apart now, but nothing will ever ever match my experience of listening to that record with headphones over and over as a pre-teen.

I listen to NLOTH in the car or at home while my two brilliant chatty kids are buzzing away with their own lives. There is no way that this album, as good as it is, could ever burrow its way into my psyche like TUF did.

Have you ever thought that maybe having 2 kids and having a different lifestyle is part of why this album won't burrow it's way like music did in the past? Has any album burrowed it's way in like that since kids?

I think this album at it's core is a grower, something U2 hasn't done in a long time, and I think people who may not have the time to just sit and listen with a glass of wine(or whatever your poison) may not enjoy this album as much as others. So be it, that's art...

No one has been able to make art for all lifestyles...
 
The lyrics on Wire, like much of the stuff on the October album, were made up on the spot. The whole album was an experiment. Bono didn't focus too much on lyrics then. Plus, Eno was never into lyrics and he kinda persuaded Bono to just sing whatever came to him, he was more interested in the sound of the singing and the sound of the words than the overall meaning or message.

How does this song not fit with the rest of the album? It's got the trademark atmospheric, ethereal UF sound!

When i listen to Wire, i'm just listening to Bono as if he's just another instrument.

I laugh when you guys try to dissect Bono's lyrics in the early albums. HE WAS STILL LEARNING! And Wire shouldn't even be scrutinized one bit when it comes to lyrics, because Bono was just making shit up on the fly!

People are harder on Bono when it comes to his most recent lyrics because he has proven in the past that he's a great writer! It's foolish to think that he was capable of the same lyrical power in the early 80's as he was in the late 80's and 90's. He grew up at some point! He read more! Should we start making fun of the early Beatle's lyrics because they're too simplistic and poppy? They were what they were, and gradually their lyrics got more complex and adventurous!

I agree and disagree, this can be said about many songs in certain stages of U2's career...

But to say Bono didn't focus on lyrics back then is completely false. Back before the internet there was this famous bootleg "Bono talks in Philadelphia", that for some reason made a pretty popular pressed CD... I used to see it everywhere, well I finally sat down and listened to it one day and couldn't understand why it was so popular, but it did have a few interesting moments... but one of the moments in paticular talked about Bono's lyrics and Bono talked very specifically about his lyric writing and what he was wanting to do with this album, the only "aftertought" improved lyric he talked about was EPAA.
 
I agree and disagree, this can be said about many songs in certain stages of U2's career...

But to say Bono didn't focus on lyrics back then is completely false. Back before the internet there was this famous bootleg "Bono talks in Philadelphia", that for some reason made a pretty popular pressed CD... I used to see it everywhere, well I finally sat down and listened to it one day and couldn't understand why it was so popular, but it did have a few interesting moments... but one of the moments in paticular talked about Bono's lyrics and Bono talked very specifically about his lyric writing and what he was wanting to do with this album, the only "aftertought" improved lyric he talked about was EPAA.

According to Into The Heart, "Wire" was improvised on the mic.

Even if that's false...what i'm trying to say is that at that time Bono was still learning as a lyricist. He didn't hit his stride until later. Don't get me wrong, he had some moments on WAR, but i think with UF, Eno's influence was all over them, and the emphasis was on the SOUND, and not on SONGS and LYRICS. In their biography, they said that Eno didn't care much about lyrics, and they were pretty much on board with that. Adam listened in as a soundboard for Bono, and stated himself that he didn't care what the lyrics were, just as long as they sounded alright. On UF, it was all about feel. Song technicalities like hooks and lyrics would become more of a priority later.
 
it's far from unreasonable to expect better lyrics for Wire since it's on the same album as A sort of Homecoming, Unforgettable Fire, Promenade
songs with a poetic scope Bono even didn't match that often later on in his career

if the problem is that it was improvised then that is the most stupid reason ever
I wish I could go to my boss and say "well, this might not be really up to my standard, but I was just giving it a go on the spot and decided to leave it at that"
 
1.) AB
2.) JT
3.) UF/NLOTH
4.) Zooropa
5.) Pop

but I'm not a big fan of album rating. It can change every day.
 
Have you ever thought that maybe having 2 kids and having a different lifestyle is part of why this album won't burrow it's way like music did in the past? Has any album burrowed it's way in like that since kids?

I think this album at it's core is a grower, something U2 hasn't done in a long time, and I think people who may not have the time to just sit and listen with a glass of wine(or whatever your poison) may not enjoy this album as much as others. So be it, that's art...

No one has been able to make art for all lifestyles...

Oh yeah, totally. That's why I hesitate in comparing the albums at all. Just different circumstances, you know? I'd say that I can't even really listen to TUF and JT with anything near objectivity. And I remember hearing both of those records for the first time, but it seems like they've always been a part of my life. It's seems cruel to even pit anything against them!

I really love NLOTH, and it did not need to grow on me at all. I'm really pleased the direction, but honestly I can't imagine anything touching the visceral connection I have with those records that I discovered as a younger person.
 
Have you ever thought that maybe having 2 kids and having a different lifestyle is part of why this album won't burrow it's way like music did in the past? Has any album burrowed it's way in like that since kids?

I think this album at it's core is a grower, something U2 hasn't done in a long time, and I think people who may not have the time to just sit and listen with a glass of wine(or whatever your poison) may not enjoy this album as much as others. So be it, that's art...

No one has been able to make art for all lifestyles...

an interesting question that i have thought about a lot. the bomb is a good example of an album that wouldn't have had the same impact on me, if i was in high school or younger. i wouldn't have liked oots as much then. that song definitely burrowed its way in because i was listening to as a new father for the first time.

it definitely changes what you like and how it affects you, just in different ways. it not like you can't have an album mean as much when you have children, it will just be different.
 
it's far from unreasonable to expect better lyrics for Wire since it's on the same album as A sort of Homecoming, Unforgettable Fire, Promenade
songs with a poetic scope Bono even didn't match that often later on in his career

if the problem is that it was improvised then that is the most stupid reason ever
I wish I could go to my boss and say "well, this might not be really up to my standard, but I was just giving it a go on the spot and decided to leave it at that"

According to the book U2: Inside The Heart "Wire" was improvised on the mic.

Do you really think Bono sat down and agonized over "you get off my back i'm no dope i give you hope"...? It was for the most part an improvisation.
 
to begin with, i have to say that i love NLOTH! it's a great album with at least 6 really, really brilliant songs! the only weak song for me is Unknown Caller, apart from that i adore the entire album. and i feel it's almost certainly going to be an incredibly enduring album.

having said all that, TUF is undoubtedly my favourite U2 album! as good as NLOTH is, it's definitely not as good as TUF (and probably no future U2 album will ever be).

and on top of all that, The Unforgettable Fire has THE greatest song EVER!!!! (Bad, OBVIOUSLY!)
 
I think of NLOTH when I listen to UF. Just listened to UF yesterday. There are similarities. Both are great albums. At the moment I'm enjoying NLOTH more, but UF is definitely in my top 3 U2 albums.
 
I prefer UF. For me, nothing on NLOTH approaches Bad, Pride or UF. NLOTH is more consistant but, for me, the highs of UF make up for its sort of shortcomings.
 
The only NLOTH-song for me that comes close to the top songs of UF is Magnificent. But yeah... Bad and TUF are in a league of their own of course.
 
The only NLOTH-song for me that comes close to the top songs of UF is Magnificent. But yeah... Bad and TUF are in a league of their own of course.
UC is up there with these songs imo- remember we haven't heard it live yet.

Fez is up there too, as is Magnificent.

I also believe both WAS and Cedars are just as good as anything on UF - I know, it's like comparing apples and bananas but musically NLOTH is just as accomplished and perhaps even more so, than UF
 
I like both albums. UF has the ultimate atmoshpere U2 song on it : Unforgettable Fire.
NLOTH is different. It is not easy to compare both. Total different styles. but FEZ-being born could have been a song on UF ...
 
For crissakes this is silly. I love NLOTH, but TUF it is decidely not. Fez-Being Born is barely a TUF b-side. Many of NLOTH songs cannot even be compared to TUF as they are almost a different genre. ie, there isn't any real attempt by any song on TUF to be the type of song that SUC, Crazy Tonight, Get On Your Boots, etc are (read: radio pop)

A Sort Of Homecoming
Bad
Pride
Unforgettable Fire
Wire
MLK
Promenade

All of those songs are far better than their "NLOTH counterparts", if they even have any comparison. The only songs that approach are MOS and Magnficent. Unknown Caller not too far behind. Being Born you have got to be freakin kidding me.
 
For crissakes this is silly. I love NLOTH, but TUF it is decidely not. Fez-Being Born is barely a TUF b-side. Many of NLOTH songs cannot even be compared to TUF as they are almost a different genre. ie, there isn't any real attempt by any song on TUF to be the type of song that SUC, Crazy Tonight, Get On Your Boots, etc are (read: radio pop)

A Sort Of Homecoming
Bad
Pride
Unforgettable Fire
Wire
MLK
Promenade

All of those songs are far better than their "NLOTH counterparts", if they even have any comparison. The only songs that approach are MOS and Magnficent. Unknown Caller not too far behind. Being Born you have got to be freakin kidding me.

I like:

A Sort Of Homecoming
Bad
Pride
Unforgettable Fire

And I also really adore:

NLOTH
Magnificent
UC
MOS
GOYB
WAS
Breath
COL

So all in all it seems that I prefer NLOTH to UF. The question is...am I silly?
 
You are silly. There is no room for taste or subjective opinion, just my facts. By way of example: there is a higher number of quality songs on UF than NLOTH. That's a fact. ;)

Besides I don't even fully understand why these two albums are being compared, they bear so little similarity to each other it's a bit puzzling.
 
Besides I don't even fully understand why these two albums are being compared, they bear so little similarity to each other it's a bit puzzling.

Simple Fez-Being Born is the closest thing to a TUF type song they've done since Walk On. In fact I tried playing the TUF guitar parts over FBB and they work perfectly; same for the vocal melodies.

I'm pretty sure the similarities are deliberate:

Ice//Your only rivers run cold//etc
vs
Lights//...//Flash Past//Like Memories)

Also the first thing I thought of when hearing Magnificent was Pride with more production and orchestration.

BTW NLOTH, FBB and Breathe are the best things they've recorded since Pop, plain and simple. And yes, Pop is a better album than TUF.

any song on TUF to be the type of song that SUC, Crazy Tonight, Get On Your Boots, etc are (read: radio pop)

hmm yeah in the same way that Wire is radio pop, 'cause there's Bono rapping :wink:

here's the rope//now swing on it...
 
Wow talk about a stretch. Seriously, the outtro of Wire reminds you of the numerous verses of a similar vein in many songs on NLOTH?? Wire wasn't radio pop of that day, sorry.

One song (Being Born) sounds something like one song on another album and all of a sudden it makes sense to compare the two albums? Yes, it does sound like Unforgettable Fire - the alternate/bside/outtake of Unforgettable Fire! Far as I'm concerned, Being Born would not have even made it onto TUF had it been written at that time. It doesn't even have a chorus! :lol: I'm sorry, I don't normally pan U2 songs but Being Born is not a highlight. It's a good thing there are far better songs on the album, or it would be in serious trouble with most audiences. As it is, don't expect to ever see it released as a single :no:


And NLOTH and Being Born are 'better' than anything since Pop? Seriously, that's insane. Beautiful Day? Walk On?? When I Look At the World? Original of The Species?? Miracle Drug?? Cmon!!! I'll allow that Breathe gets an 'as good as if not better than' rating.
 
Being a part of this forum over the past year or two really has made me realize how atypical a fan I am of this band. That being said, I do think there is a little bit of comparison to be drawn here:

UF- Other than helping segue into Joshua Tree, this album is the low-point of their career. I just get the feeling that U2 was hungry to do something new, yet hungry for success (much in the way they are now. I'll come back to that later). Eno was all for taking this band in new directions, and if they had let him have his way, we would've gotten a much better record. I mean, come on, he didn't want Pride to be on the album and in my opinion, the song sticks out like a sore thumb. What a blatent attempt at commercial appeal right smack dab in the middle (not literally in the middle, of course) of an atmospheric and spontaneous feeling album. It was as if the band started out with a good idea and crushed it with wanting too much from it. Which brings me to...

NLOTH - Another low point of the band's career. You take a great idea - working with eno and lanois in Fez and just writing with no end in sight in order to make a great experimental record - and then destroy that idea by taking a complete record and either working the material to death or swapping out songs for ones that are again a blatent attempt at 'saving face'. I can only hope that, like UF, this album is a segueway to something amazing; even though I feel like the band is better without segueways and just going for it full-force without a safety net like Achtung Baby and POP, but that's a different topic.

So, the comparison is there. New direction, but with extreme caution produces a weak record in my opinion. These are currently my two least favorite U2 albums. Let's not go so far as to say I dislike them; they both contain some standout tracks and I listen to both fairly often.
 
I'll go with No Line On The Horizon. While Bad, TUF, and Promenade are among my favorite songs in the U2 canon, I think that No Line on the Horizon beats it in terms of pure songs.

The whole first half of the album stands up as strong as any 6 songs U2 has ever written.

and I've never liked Pride (*gasp!*). It's the one U2 "classic" that I don't like.
 
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