NLOTH Mastering? / Clipping?

[dopper]

I think Crumbs is virtually unlistenable. U2 should be embarrassed. They can't possibly think it sounds good. They compromised their integrity just so they can compete with bands half their age. You'd think at this point, with all their wealth and success, that making quality-sounding music would be more important than record sales.

 

[U2opra]

Maybe they are making things louder because they think it's too quiet based on the assumption they are going deaf from all the touring that they do?

 

[Edge_Orchestra]

After hearing Boots, I'm afraid we're in for the same loud, compressed and distorted sound we heard on HTDAAB. Perhaps we should prepare a petition like the Metallica fans did for their latest album.

Is your judgement being based on a CD copy or that of an ? Keeping in mind that an mp3 is already sort of compressed and the quality can very depending on the bitrate.

 

[Edge_Orchestra]

Apparently, the new Guns 'n Roses one isn't. I don't have the record though.

As for Get On Your Boots, I'm not making a judgement based on a MP3.

Actually, there was a lot of complaining about the G n R CD when it came out, besides the fact that it wasn't that good after a 15+ year wait, the mastering was too compressed and too loud.

 

[catlhere]

There is a new Guns 'N Roses? I only heard about Axl & Friends' new album.

 

[Cask]

Is your judgement being based on a CD copy or that of an ? Keeping in mind that an mp3 is already sort of compressed and the quality can very depending on the bitrate.

MP3 compression and dynamic range compression are two very different things, and mp3 compression doesn't cause any clipping or distortion. Dynamic range compression does when exaggerated. 256 kbps are good enough to determine if the CD sounds clipped or not. NLOTH has a lot of clipping, not as bad as Death Magnetic, but it is still there, and will be the same next week when you get your CD copy.

 

[dopper]

Is your judgement being based on a CD copy or that of an ? Keeping in mind that an mp3 is already sort of compressed and the quality can very depending on the bitrate.

It was based on the iTunes AAC file. I'm hoping the CD sounds better. I heard Boots on the radio around the time the CD single was released and it sounded much better. The drums during the "Let Me in the Sound" part were much cleaner, so hopefully this bodes well for the album CD.

 

[ianshepherd]

A few points to comment on:

- It's very hard to draw conclusions about the mastering of an album without the source to compare it with.

- Having said that, some tracks on NLOTH are very squashed and distorted, but others are much cleaner and more dynamic, which suggests to me that the mastering has been faithful to the mixes - meaning, it's probably unfair to blame the mastering for what you're hearing. (Mastering is different from mixing - see here.) At it's loudest points NLOTH is as loud as HTDAAB, but at other points it's quieter, whereas HTDAAB is pushed to the max throughout. The lower level of NLOTH is a step in the right direction, as far as level and the Loudness Wars are concerned.

- Having said that, there is a slightly fuzzy distorted quality to the bass end throughout the Spotify preview of NLOTH. This may be a result of the mixes, or the mastering - we will probably never know - but lots of mixes are being delivered to the mastering studio like that these days, unfortunately.

- Singles are often mastered separately from albums, and sometimes differently. It's possible that the single for "Boots" was pushed harder for radio play, although would be a mistake. Check out the two examples from Deaf Magnetic in this interview I did for Radio 4 - they sound a similar loudness over the air, even though the distorted CD version started out 10dB (!) louder. This was also demonstrated in far more detail by an Australian radio metal show - check out this blog post. Lower-level CDs sound just as good (if not better) on the radio.

- The new Guns 'n' Roses album is called "Chinese Democracy", and although not everyone was happy about the production, the overall mix is considerably less compressed than the vast majority of released music these days, and the level on the CD is very conservative. More info here.

Cheers,

Ian

 

[chrissybaby]

^ Thank you Ian, the interview is very interesting.

As for Crumbs from the last album, I honestly cannot get my head around how bad that is. It's actually painful. I'm getting a similar feeling from the start of UC on this album too...

 

[chrissybaby]

OK I'm listening to Linear on good headphones and it sounds clipped to death... Can someone else check this? I have downloaded the MP4 file for Quicktime and it sounds dreadful...

 

[raft]

-I'd given up trying to find something to quote-

- About the distorted "through" at Dirty Day...I always thought that the voice was distorted ala Zoo Station, that it was on pourpose. Now listening carefully, I guess is not, is just that word.
- Thank you for teaching me to listen to HTDAAB. The compression appeared clear to me in many songs.
- I always remember that , in order to listen to Velvet Dress -1st part, most-, I had to turn up the volume, a lot. That means it had good dynamics?

 

[TheEnd]

Ian, thanks for taking the time to post. This is a topic I'm very interested in.

 

[ianshepherd]

^ Thank you Ian, the interview is very interesting.

As for Crumbs from the last album, I honestly cannot get my head around how bad that is. It's actually painful. I'm getting a similar feeling from the start of UC on this album too...

Not sure what you mean by UC or Linear, but sadly "I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight" is probably even more distorted than Crumbs. Luckily it's only this track one which is that bad.

Interestingly I was initially underwhelmed by the songs, but after all this listening they are starting to grow on me !

Ian

 

[ianshepherd]

- I always remember that , in order to listen to Velvet Dress -1st part, most-, I had to turn up the volume, a lot. That means it had good dynamics?

Well, it means it had dynamics, but good dynamics need to work musically.

If you were listening in a noisy environment like the car, then good musical dynamics can be a problem because quieter sections are drowned out. But if you were in a reasonable environment and felt the opening was just too low, maybe it should have been a little louder. Personally that has never bothered me specifically - it's very quiet and moody, but that suits the song.

Ian

 

[buzzkill27]

Thanks again Ian.......looking foward to hearing some feedback from some of the fans who have already gotten their hands on the physical CD,I'll have to wait a few days

 

[b_digg]

Thanks again Ian.......looking foward to hearing some feedback from some of the fans who have already gotten their hands on the physical CD,I'll have to wait a few days

sound is clearer, particulary the vocals and less sssss in the sound

 

[jecofficial]

in dirty day album there are plenty of affects on the voice, you cant just say thats a mix you dont care for.

making things louder is often a simple way to cover for sub standard work, if the music won't punch them in the face, the volume has got to, thats what death magnetic is all about, and its a poor trade off for anyone with taste.

this has long been a trick used by u2, they hide stuff in the mix and force you to turn it up, but while you could get away with some of that in the days of analog, today is a different story and there is a fine line in the digital world of recording (diminishing returns)

 

[buzzkill27]

Not sure what you mean by UC or Linear, but sadly "I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight" is probably even more distorted than Crumbs. Luckily it's only this track one which is that bad.

Interestingly I was initially underwhelmed by the songs, but after all this listening they are starting to grow on me !

Ian

UC stands for Unknown Caller which as you know is on the disc. "Linear" is the name of the accompanying Anton Corbijn "film"(visual album) that is set to the music of NLOTH....there is a song on there called "Winter" which was previously titled "Linear"..it's on the film but not on the album and the running order of the songs on this "film" is different than the album running order.

There is an mp3 of the song "Winter" floating around there somewhere and a request thread for it on this site if you'd like to hear it

 

[buzzkill27]

Well guys is it clipping?? I honestly haven't had the chance to pick up the CD yet....I will do so tommorow...but what of the mastering job?...is it an improvement over HTDAAB??

 

[santiago]

Well guys is it clipping?? I honestly haven't had the chance to pick up the CD yet....I will do so tommorow...but what of the mastering job?...is it an improvement over HTDAAB??

Much much better. Still some occasional clipping, and crazy tonight sounds really loud. The rest sounds quite good!

It's a relief the loudness wars seem to be ending...

 

[iota]

vocal mixing mid-record

Alright, I don't have the best car stereo in the world, but it's decent. I have 400 Cds on my mp3 player and they all sound great in my car. But on Horizon, the vocal mixing on "crazy tonight" and "boots" are painful. Everytime Bono makes a "sss" or "ttt" sound, oh. my. god. It's sounds like Mr. Beaver from the Narnia cartoon. Did someone different mix these songs? I don't have the liner notes, I downloaded it. 400 CDs and the other other one I've ever had the same problem with was on HTDAAB: "Crumbs From Your Table." It makes my ears bleed, its so poorly mixed. Anybody else notice this or is my car stereo just secretly conspiring to get me to stop listening to U2?

Who mixed these tracks...? I have my suspicions :cough: Lillywhite :cough:

 

[alanah]

"Crazy Tonight" - mixed by Lillywhite and Eiriksson

"Boots" - mixed by Declan Gaffney

 

[ukesgonewild]

The CD doesn't sound better than the iTunes version... heavily compressed, distortion at times... it makes it sound muddy.

There's less distortion on the CD than the bootleg I got though, but I also have the vinyl and the vinyl sounds great in regards to no distortion, but there seems to be a lack of bass in the vinyl (on certain songs) compared to the CD.

 

[Danny Boy]

Well guys is it clipping?? I honestly haven't had the chance to pick up the CD yet....I will do so tommorow...but what of the mastering job?...is it an improvement over HTDAAB??

I posted this in another thread yesterday; yeah, there's definitely clipping. You can tell by the way the tops of the waveforms are flattened out.

Stand Up Comedy

 

[stargift]

i've listened to the cd over and over. i also downloaded that torrent that was said to be higher quality than everything out there. someone said it might be taken directly from vinyl. i no longer play the cd just the torrent that i burned to cd. when i listen to it i hear way more clean highs and lows then i do on the cd. it sounds 10 times better to me. i believe someone ran the torrent through an analizer and said it does have broader range than the cd.

 

[digitize]

The CD is definitely better than the original 256kbps mp3 I was listening to until today, but not perfect... MOS, I noticed, in particular, could benefit from being more dynamic. But, just one observation to my ears... Eno's synth (duh-duh-duhduhduh) lines on Magnificent sounded much, much more clean to my ears on the CD than on the mp3.

 

[gman]

Mixing on NLOTH

Has anyone else noticed the mixing on NLOTH and IGCIIDGCT is utter pish compared to the rest of the album? They both sound flat, muddy and two dimensional. Boots suffers a bit also...but not as bad as the two i mentioned.

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

NLOTH is a great song but does sound like a mess at times like it doesnt know where to go. The drums are sinfully low.

 

[BVS]

Other than the typical "loudness war" that every album suffers from these days, I think this album is mixed pretty well especially compared to the last album.

 

[ultraviolet7]

i've listened to the cd over and over. i also downloaded that torrent that was said to be higher quality than everything out there. someone said it might be taken directly from vinyl. i no longer play the cd just the torrent that i burned to cd. when i listen to it i hear way more clean highs and lows then i do on the cd. it sounds 10 times better to me. i believe someone ran the torrent through an analizer and said it does have broader range than the cd.

Are you sure this torrent wasn't fiddled with? I mean vinyl can definitely sound better than CD, but if you make it digital to upload it, the benefits from the analogue media are lost, especially if you digitise it with lo-fi A/D converters, which is probably the case. Even if it was digitised with high quality converters such as Apogee - stuff only available at a pro studio - still the 44,1 kHz and 16 bit limitations of the CD-compatible digital media would chop off the sort of high range the vinyl is capable of. You'll get high range, but a rather harsh/shrill top end. But then the modern ear is accustomed to that sort of high end.