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Moment Of Surrender is overrated thread
- Thread starter razredge
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MooMoo!
New Yorker
Oh, definitely...I certainly have no doubt that Edge can do the solo. I just think that it sounds very Lanois to me---from the sound to the style. It certainly could've been written or co-written by Lanois and then played by Edge, or it could be entirely written and played by Edge. But as a Lanois fan, I'm leaving it up in the air until I see the song's credits...
Ah I see. I got some Lanois music but never actually listened to it, so I dunno what hes like.
Recommend an album?
Ah I see. I got some Lanois music but never actually listened to it, so I dunno what hes like.
Recommend an album?
My pleasure!
Acadie is widely regarded as his best: Amazon.com: Acadie: Goldtop Edition: Daniel Lanois: Music
Here Is What Is is the album that was associated with Lanois' documentary of the same name, and it's also excellent. It's the Lanois of this album that sounds most like the MOS solo. Of note, the film shows portions of U2's recording work in Fez. CD: Amazon.com: Here Is What Is: Daniel Lanois: Music
Both are highly recommended!
purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
'Here is what is' is nice.
cdirani
War Child
I take risk to say that it cannot be overrated as it's not officially released
MooMoo!
New Yorker
Ta.
ndmaxfield
War Child
I think it's the closest they've ever come to creating a gospel-style song that actually sounds like it would sound in your basic Southeastern United States church. The backing music in the opening reminds me of the type of cheap backing track you'd hear from a church member who was going to sing for the congregation on Sunday morning, and I don't mean that as an insult (read below). The authenticity is heart-breaking (insert tape, press play, and stand there still in front of the church with mic in-hand and God in your heart until the first verse arrives). In church, when it's time for the vocal, it's hit or it's miss, depending on the singer. With Bono it's always gonna be a homerun.
From the first chorus on, the "cheap backing track" layers into reggae-style guitars...piano...steel guitar elements...some organ...but the feeling is still muted, which keeps the authenticity of an almost irrelevant backing track for Bono's lyrical confession. It is amazing that U2 would even play this music, largely putting aside anything they could do as individuals musically in favor of preserving the backing track as a backing track as a backing track. The almost-but-not-quite perfect choral singing keeps it real, as does the muted bleeding-heart Edge solo. This is humble gospel rock at its finest.
From the first chorus on, the "cheap backing track" layers into reggae-style guitars...piano...steel guitar elements...some organ...but the feeling is still muted, which keeps the authenticity of an almost irrelevant backing track for Bono's lyrical confession. It is amazing that U2 would even play this music, largely putting aside anything they could do as individuals musically in favor of preserving the backing track as a backing track as a backing track. The almost-but-not-quite perfect choral singing keeps it real, as does the muted bleeding-heart Edge solo. This is humble gospel rock at its finest.
LyricalDrug
Rock n' Roll Doggie
What I love most about MOS is that the band realized that in order for this song to keep its majesty intact, it HAD to be over seven minutes long. It's the longest song U2 has ever recorded, and one of the strangest, spookiest, most haunting things I've ever heard Bono sing, which is saying a lot.
The "eeeeeven on our wedding day" really stands out. The protaganist is obviously filled with doubt and regret, as he ruminates over whether love still "believes" in him. He's in the middle of a deteriorating relationship, and hope seems lost. He has an epiphany at the ATM machine, and after he's been speeding on the subway, "through the stations of the cross" (metaphorically, on his way to his own crucifixion), he finally surrenders. The big, unanswered question is, what is he surrendering to? To his maker? Is the surrender a release and point of salvation? Or does he surrender by giving up on life, by falling to his knees, and failing?
This kind of lyrical angst and ambiguity is what makes this song the best on the album. It's on the same level as "One" or "Bad" in that way. I know that we U2 maniacs - myself included - always seem to get hung up on ranking songs, ranking albums, etc. instead of simply appreciating them for what they are, but even so, this is my favorite U2 song.
The "eeeeeven on our wedding day" really stands out. The protaganist is obviously filled with doubt and regret, as he ruminates over whether love still "believes" in him. He's in the middle of a deteriorating relationship, and hope seems lost. He has an epiphany at the ATM machine, and after he's been speeding on the subway, "through the stations of the cross" (metaphorically, on his way to his own crucifixion), he finally surrenders. The big, unanswered question is, what is he surrendering to? To his maker? Is the surrender a release and point of salvation? Or does he surrender by giving up on life, by falling to his knees, and failing?
This kind of lyrical angst and ambiguity is what makes this song the best on the album. It's on the same level as "One" or "Bad" in that way. I know that we U2 maniacs - myself included - always seem to get hung up on ranking songs, ranking albums, etc. instead of simply appreciating them for what they are, but even so, this is my favorite U2 song.
Mrs. Garrison
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
i didnt like this song at first listen, but its a real grower. Now im hooked.
Sleep Over Jack
Refugee
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2004
- Messages
- 2,089
I think it's closer to Your Blue Room than anything else. First listen of it was mixed, but it's getting better all the time for me, and I think it could be one of the band's standout songs eventually.
sue4u2
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
You should never feel like that. Your opinion is as valid as any other.
If it's not one of your favorites, so be it. I could't believe SUC and Crazy Tonight were on the same album. Now I can't imagin it without these 2 tracks. Doesn't mean however, you have to start liking MOS.
It is one of the reasons I love both of these (One and WOWY) and MOS.
I love ballards and I gravitate towards extreme emotion in songs.
This song has it all.
It's just beautiful - in a devasting sort of way.
the chorus is boring
theres no magic at the end to anticipate
The ATM remark was kind of lame and unecessary
The good thing is that it seemed to resurrect JT BONO
One is better because you can feel the anguish in Bono's voice toward the end and there arent any time stamp words in the lyrics like on MOS. A song like Moment of Surrender had the potential to be epic with a theme like that but it fell flat.
theres no magic at the end to anticipate
The ATM remark was kind of lame and unecessary
The good thing is that it seemed to resurrect JT BONO
One is better because you can feel the anguish in Bono's voice toward the end and there arent any time stamp words in the lyrics like on MOS. A song like Moment of Surrender had the potential to be epic with a theme like that but it fell flat.
DarkAcrobat
The Fly
IMO:
MOS , right now, is one of the best U2 songs ever...
MOS , right now, is one of the best U2 songs ever...
I agree the chorus is batshit boring, sounds like he's singing Peace on Earth 2. You need an interesting chorus, such as the non traditional one like in One. Again I take issue with all the previewers who compared it to One and WOWY and called it 'gorgeously melodic' when it isn't.
I was expecting another dark U2 ballad in the vein of One, AIWIY, WOWY, LIB etc. This is like their take on adult contemporary, it doesn't even sound like a U2 song at times.
Earnie Shavers
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Umm, everyone looking for comparisons, have we all forgotten a small 80s song they did called I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For?
Leebonoman96
Acrobat
I think it is easily the best song on the album.
kiwilad
Refugee
I can't see the point of view of all those who don't 'get' this song, because, the first time i heard that first line, 'I tied myself with wire...', the first time I listened to it, it smacked the shit out of me.
I was like a possum in the headlights.
"What the fuck. Did Bono just make that sound with his voice? Did he just sing THAT lyric and MEAN it. Oh God, U2 are back"
So with that experience from my first listen, it's pretty hard to be critical.
The chorus is understated, or dull, depending on your take.
Musically it's subtle, sincere, or, if you don't like it, it doesn't go anywhere.
We're all fans with one common love and infinite tastes within that love. That always astounds me, but I kind of like it too
I was like a possum in the headlights.
"What the fuck. Did Bono just make that sound with his voice? Did he just sing THAT lyric and MEAN it. Oh God, U2 are back"
So with that experience from my first listen, it's pretty hard to be critical.
The chorus is understated, or dull, depending on your take.
Musically it's subtle, sincere, or, if you don't like it, it doesn't go anywhere.
We're all fans with one common love and infinite tastes within that love. That always astounds me, but I kind of like it too
Got Philk?
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Definitely one of my favorites on this album. My thoughts are as follows. There are better songs from earlier albums, but outside of OOTS, this is the best song I've heard from U2 in a while.
ShipOfFools
War Child
Moment Of Surrender is one of the best songs on the new album.
I'll even go through the song an explain what I like and have problems with:
The lyrics are quite good throughout the song. However they are not quite outstanding, unlike some of their earlier stuff. As I said earlier the lyrics feel rather contrived at times.
For instance, he makes liberal use of lyric reversal trick eg. "Playing with the fire
Until the fire played with me". Although the lyrics this method creates aren't bad, they don't have the same kind of artistic achievement behind them as some of their other lyrics do.
Now let me get this straight, the songs intro is sparse and largely forgettable. But when the verses kick in, I like them and how they are sung mostly (ie. not the wedding day one).
I like them, until the song reaches the second chorus after the 'black hole' verse. ( I particularly like how he sings 'yearns' for instance, has an Arabic feel to it)
Now while the singing is good in the verses, the backing instrumentation is sparse and not interesting, it's just a backdrop. Say unlike So Cruel which has a cool piano line throughout the song.
OK so what about the chorus?
Unfortunately they made the massive mistake to sing it in unison, this robs the song of much of its seriousness and darkness (it reminds me of ATYCLB), notice that One, LIB, Acrobat, WOWY, AIWY etc. are similarily themed songs, but all don't have such poppy choruses.
The fact that they sing the chorus in the most obvious way possible, ie. not doing anything interesting with rhythm etc. also makes me deduct marks. The chorus simply doesn't work for this type of song.
The next chorus, is where it goes rather downhill. It begins with the lyric 'I was punching in the numbers at the ATM machine/ I could see in the reflection / A face staring back at me"
Firstly 'ATM machine' means 'automatic teller machine machine' which is incredibly silly to be in a serious song like this, I wouldn't care if it was in Crazy Tonight or something.
Secondly 'I could see in the reflection / A face staring back at me' - sigh- Oh, really Bono, you see a reflection do you, I wonder why? What a deep and meaningful lyric.
Then there's a moderately interesting piano and guitar interlude, which is relaxing. Edge's guitar (which is absent for 90% of the song) solo is ok, but it doesn't sound like him, it's like an Eric Clapton solo as people have remarked, c'mon Edge you can do better than this.
This also highlights a key point with the song - It doesn't sound like a U2 'dark' song.
The next verse is hampered by the fact that they sing it like the chorus, I would much rather see it sung almost spoken word by Bono alone, would add more angst.
Then is another chorus, which is exactly like the previous ones. The only interesting thing is the guitar 'drop' at 6.12, which I like.
Then the song goes off into a minute long series of 'ohhhs', and they're not even interesting vocalisations, (unlike the end of One for example) just filler material.
Thankfully the song stops soon after, and doesn't go into an extended, repetitive outro (Love Comes Tumbling style) which would make me hate the song.
So I guess I have two major problems with the song (apart from certain lyrics):
1. It doesn't really sound like a U2 ballad of old, it is almost like another band's song. I have a feeling that they can't do these kind of dark songs very well any more, post-2000s.
The best recent example of this type of song, has been Mercy, which had a fantastic first half with great lyrics, and a bit lackluster second half . But I am sure that if they had spent the same amount of time on Mercy as they did with MoS and actually finish the song, it would be a better long song.
2. It doesn't go anywhere, it doesn't build up to something awesome like One, WOWY, AIWY, LIB etc. Nor is it a plateau either like Being Born or something.
It's more of a relaxing, adult contemporary song.
So I would say overall this is a3/3.5 stars out of 5 song, though it does grow on you.
I am disappointed because I was expecting a grand U2 ballad in the old tradition.
The lyrics are quite good throughout the song. However they are not quite outstanding, unlike some of their earlier stuff. As I said earlier the lyrics feel rather contrived at times.
For instance, he makes liberal use of lyric reversal trick eg. "Playing with the fire
Until the fire played with me". Although the lyrics this method creates aren't bad, they don't have the same kind of artistic achievement behind them as some of their other lyrics do.
Now let me get this straight, the songs intro is sparse and largely forgettable. But when the verses kick in, I like them and how they are sung mostly (ie. not the wedding day one).
I like them, until the song reaches the second chorus after the 'black hole' verse. ( I particularly like how he sings 'yearns' for instance, has an Arabic feel to it)
Now while the singing is good in the verses, the backing instrumentation is sparse and not interesting, it's just a backdrop. Say unlike So Cruel which has a cool piano line throughout the song.
OK so what about the chorus?
Unfortunately they made the massive mistake to sing it in unison, this robs the song of much of its seriousness and darkness (it reminds me of ATYCLB), notice that One, LIB, Acrobat, WOWY, AIWY etc. are similarily themed songs, but all don't have such poppy choruses.
The fact that they sing the chorus in the most obvious way possible, ie. not doing anything interesting with rhythm etc. also makes me deduct marks. The chorus simply doesn't work for this type of song.
The next chorus, is where it goes rather downhill. It begins with the lyric 'I was punching in the numbers at the ATM machine/ I could see in the reflection / A face staring back at me"
Firstly 'ATM machine' means 'automatic teller machine machine' which is incredibly silly to be in a serious song like this, I wouldn't care if it was in Crazy Tonight or something.
Secondly 'I could see in the reflection / A face staring back at me' - sigh- Oh, really Bono, you see a reflection do you, I wonder why? What a deep and meaningful lyric.
Then there's a moderately interesting piano and guitar interlude, which is relaxing. Edge's guitar (which is absent for 90% of the song) solo is ok, but it doesn't sound like him, it's like an Eric Clapton solo as people have remarked, c'mon Edge you can do better than this.
This also highlights a key point with the song - It doesn't sound like a U2 'dark' song.
The next verse is hampered by the fact that they sing it like the chorus, I would much rather see it sung almost spoken word by Bono alone, would add more angst.
Then is another chorus, which is exactly like the previous ones. The only interesting thing is the guitar 'drop' at 6.12, which I like.
Then the song goes off into a minute long series of 'ohhhs', and they're not even interesting vocalisations, (unlike the end of One for example) just filler material.
Thankfully the song stops soon after, and doesn't go into an extended, repetitive outro (Love Comes Tumbling style) which would make me hate the song.
So I guess I have two major problems with the song (apart from certain lyrics):
1. It doesn't really sound like a U2 ballad of old, it is almost like another band's song. I have a feeling that they can't do these kind of dark songs very well any more, post-2000s.
The best recent example of this type of song, has been Mercy, which had a fantastic first half with great lyrics, and a bit lackluster second half . But I am sure that if they had spent the same amount of time on Mercy as they did with MoS and actually finish the song, it would be a better long song.
2. It doesn't go anywhere, it doesn't build up to something awesome like One, WOWY, AIWY, LIB etc. Nor is it a plateau either like Being Born or something.
It's more of a relaxing, adult contemporary song.
So I would say overall this is a3/3.5 stars out of 5 song, though it does grow on you.
I am disappointed because I was expecting a grand U2 ballad in the old tradition.
jasonlee
The Fly
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2007
- Messages
- 122
The button you're looking for is "skip."
sue4u2
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
^And everyone would say, that's just like U2 of old.
"They're recycling their AB, etc era."
Since I don't know of any songs you've written and had recorded, I'll chalk this one up as just - you're opinion.
Edited: Well not eveyone, probably. Just critics looking for something else to bash U2 for.
Got Philk?
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Catman
Rock n' Roll Doggie
razredge: You know, what really worried me about MOS is the fact that I thought it was going to be a traditional U2 ballad (slow start, gradual build, climax... something forced (e.g. SYCMIOYO) - I was so happy with what they gave us! And I also don't think of this song as Adult Contemporary... unless you count hymns as AC 
Totally agree with razedge!! They should have put more effort into it... it really is missing a killer punch. I was expecting a Stairway to heaven or November rain type epicc and all we get is a seemingly half assed effort at badv2 which does'nt even stack upto original Bad. ok that's not a great representation, but u get the drift... i still like the song.. but i was hoping it would be like 11/10 not 7/10.
kawai17
The Fly
Magnificent may be the most overrated U2 song of all time.
As a big fan of almost everything Brian Eno has done and also a fan of almost everything U2 has done, MOS couldn't be better. It's a great marriage between Eno's transcendental soundscapes and U2's sense for drama and emotion. The combination is just brilliant.
And I can't wait to hear what they do with this live. I have a feeling it's going to be a highlight of the tour for me.
And I can't wait to hear what they do with this live. I have a feeling it's going to be a highlight of the tour for me.
yenlard
War Child
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2004
- Messages
- 511
one owns moment. just heard it on the radio the other day after not listening to it for a while. one is a classic song. up there with the best ever. bono's voice is perfect throughout the song.
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