Maybe the naysayers of NLOTH have some truth...

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dr who :up:


btw No line ... went platinum in The Netherlands on release last Friday
had it only sold 1 copy that would also have been fine by me though
 
NLOTH will never be Pop, not at this point of their carreer.

Besides, Pop is a great album.

I don't care about the "masses", I don't even think it's legitimate to say something like that after the album has only been released for a week.

The album is a grower and it is not the typical radiofriendly single material, it's basically what the fans wanted. Now we suddenly worry about the "masses" not liking it, that's ridiculous.

I have read so many really positive reviews, I was surprised, I expected much more bashing. I've read positive reviews from sources that had been bashing U2 for years now. And I love the album, that's all that matters in the end.

I think it's sad that some fans cannot simply enjoy the new music and be glad that the band is still around. I couldn't be more happy about the way things currently are.


Well said and I agree with you. I don't give a sh$t what the mass thinks of this album. This album is really breath-taking.
 
NLOTH will never be Pop, not at this point of their carreer.

Besides, Pop is a great album.

I don't care about the "masses", I don't even think it's legitimate to say something like that after the album has only been released for a week.

The album is a grower and it is not the typical radiofriendly single material, it's basically what the fans wanted. Now we suddenly worry about the "masses" not liking it, that's ridiculous.

I have read so many really positive reviews, I was surprised, I expected much more bashing. I've read positive reviews from sources that had been bashing U2 for years now. And I love the album, that's all that matters in the end.

I think it's sad that some fans cannot simply enjoy the new music and be glad that the band is still around. I couldn't be more happy about the way things currently are.

Amen Brother!

I've been surprised too by some of the rave reviews I've read of this album, considering the sources (as I was in 1997 when I happened to be in Dublin for the Pop release and read the NME's positive, almost raving, review. Previously, NME tended to hate U2 and seemed to me to have a "more alternative than thou" attitude toward any band that sold more than 1000 or so copies of an album.) Likewise, some of the dismissals of NLOTH have been either surprising or completely predictable (from U2-haters who will bash anything regardless of musical merit).

I wish people (including U2, who I think are guilty of this in some respects...i.e. unwilling to go all the way with the more experimental side of themselves, needing the "stadium rockers" too much) would quit worrying about what "the masses" or "most people" or "people under 20" or any other arbitrary demographic think, and just make good music. At this stage or their career, U2 don't need to make chart-topping stadium rockers or try to compete with bands half their age; they should just focus on good music, whatever the critics or billboard charts think, and regardless whether it will get lots of radio airtime, etc. (that's why I'm intrigued, encouraged, and excited by what I've heard so far about the supposedly "more mediative album about pilgrimage" to be forthcoming later this year. I hope they're not pulling our legs!). They should take a page from Nick Cave...make brilliant music and your audience will find you, regardless of the fact that you get no radio or MTV airplay, Grammy nominations, Super Bowl invites, etc.
 
The song also dropped mostly because U2 released the song:

1. A month before they told people they were going to, so there was no buildup that would have gotten people interested in the track.

2. Without a video.

3. Without a CD.

So, there's that. They kind of fucked the song over.


They truly did, plus they released the single in the Uk a week before the album came out, not too many will buy a CD single the week before they can get as part of the album, normally it would be released a month or so before, when fans are so impatient for the album they'll buy anything!

Plus, U2 normally release 2 or 3 versions of the single so fans will often buy all 3, I can remember deals where you would buy two and get one free, this certainly helped the singles getting higher up the chart. This time this didn't happen.

Boots didn't stand much of a chance. I think it's a top tune.
 
dr who :up:


btw No line ... went platinum in The Netherlands on release last Friday
had it only sold 1 copy that would also have been fine by me though

I agree, well said, great point, I am just glad to have my favourite band back with excellent new songs on a cracking new album! Also as you say, Dr Who's post above is great as well, well done Doc. Interesting to note that the main famous part of the Doctor Who theme tune has finally made it into a U2 album, it's in Cedars of Lebanon and it's clearly a conspiracy between Brian Eno and The Edge.

I predict that No Line... will outsell the last two albums... by a fair margin as well :D
 
Frankly I don't give a S@*! what the general reception of this album is. Never been the one to follow what's popular and if I like something I will listen to it. Popular songs that are considered hits nowadays and that are loved my general audience are crap anyways, and if we are going to judge this album by that, then.....
I don't care if this album (or any album by U2) makes it in top ten of whatever list/chart. This is not to say that I don't care about their success- I DO, but what we need to keep in mind is that 99% of those top 10 albums, or top 10 singles are there because of the young teenage crowd who buys that stuff. I am sorry- I just WILL NOT judge U2's albums based on some rankings, where music by Miley Cyrus is considered a hit. Britney Spears sells huge numbers when her albums are released, but that doesn't mean that music is actually any good!
 
Beginning of the end? No way. U2 are still making music that moves me. NLOTH suits my tastes and that's all that it important to me. Can't wait to get to hear those songs from Songs of Ascent now either. I think we'll be looking back at this period of U2's existence with great fondness and admiration.
 
The more I listen to this record, the more I feel "musically refreshed"....

I just feel like this album has much, much less potential to "go stale" than, say, an ATYCLB, HTDAAB or even a Rattle and Hum... this is not a real criticism of those albums, just that out of an outstanding back catalogue, some albums are better than other great ones...

There is much more COLOUR in this music, more layers, new instruments, sounds, beats, loops, guitar parts, organ lines, backing vocals, sneaky riffs and licks that (like some on Achtung) might go unnoticed by some listeners, including me, for ten years!

I am still discovering new sounds and notes and grooves hidden in Achtung to this very day would you believe and I have no doubt this album has the same sonic scope...

I feel, when listening, that No Line is like a record made in a moon full of craters and seas and valleys... not a flat line album from start to end, but an album that has hidden caves, crevices, twists, turns, craters even, in which some sonically brilliant sounds are hidden, new ones to be explored with each listen...

I don't know much about the art of music, but I know what music I like, and I like this... Fresh, exciting, challening even, forcing me to actually listen rather than just setting it all out in front of me like a buffet... This is music to dig into, real rock music for rock music fans deprived of challenges by today's trends and laziness...
 
to compare the viva la vida sells to the NLOTH ones isn´t possible.

but coldplays first single "violet hill" wasn´t a hit in the US. it was far away from that all over the world. a bit better then boots, but not so much. it seems that everyone forget "viloet hill" and thought that "viva la vida" was their first single.

in 2009, the economic crises has hit the US in a very extrem way. which set new marks in album sells. low marks. ok, taylor swift sold shitloads. dunno why, because this is totally crap music. but she did. U2 is still the biggest band in the world, but the new album isn´t made for people who discover them for the first time. HTAAD was made for them, NLOTH isn´t.

"the fly" is one of my all time favourites. i don´t think that boots will be this too in a few years, but "the fly" didn´t sold much.

i think that "boots" was the right thing to catch attention in positive an negative way. and the next single will be probably a big hit also in the US. and on the long tail, the album figures will rise high because of the second and third single and the tour. these are important facts to sell many records.

so NLOTH will not sell 800.000 records in its first week. but how many artists are able to do this in 2009? probably eminem will do, even "crack a bottle" sounds like a standard hit from him...nothing new and boring.

at last, i´m a bit surprised of their big promotion activities and an album which wasn´t made for the masses. this promotion wasn´t cheap, it´s probably the most expensive one in 2009. do they pay this from U2 ltd company money or was this paid by universal? because if universal need to pay that..their income of the record sells will be too less.
 
Well said and I agree with you. I don't give a sh$t what the mass thinks of this album. This album is really breath-taking.

Yea I second that. And you can't tell this album is going to be received bad because of Boots.
A LOT went wrong with that song's release and I'm completely sure that they'll be back in the charts with Magnificent.

Not that it matters anyway, but at least it'll be something..


Pop was a good album, but it wasn't finished. NLOTH is finished, and fine as it is. It's starting to grow on me more and more, and I definately don't give a damn if anyone else doesn't like it. I do, and that's enough for me!

It would be nice if the majority didn't like it though, means more tickets for me!
 
The album is an artistic success. Whether or not it is a commercial success does not really matter.

Of course I would love for U2 to keep making a killing commercially, but that's really secondary
 
so what do we have so far at the end of the week and the fact that the album was released february 27th:

Chart (2009) Peak
position Certifications

Brazil Platinum
Belgium 1
Finland 3
France 1
Ireland 1
Netherlands Platinum
Portugal Platinum
Sweden 2

it´s not so bad;)
 
Here are the problems with the article:

1) HTDAAB was released right after Thanksgiving - meaning holiday $ales were kicking in. HTDAAB sold over 200K copies in the U.S. the first five weeks of its release. In March, the #1 album may only sell 150K copies. For NLOTH to achieve sales of 400-500K in March is impressive.

2) ATYCLB had the mega-hit, "Beautiful Day". First week sales? 428K in the U.S. NLOTH appears to be on pace to match that.

3) "POP" was released in March. Back then, there were no illegal downloads to steal away sales. First week sales were 347K. NLOTH appears to be headed toward a significantly higher total.

4) AB's first week sales were a mere 295K in the U.S. It went on to be certified as 8x Platinum in the U.S. If this were 1991, this article might question why sales for U2 - the juggernauts that released JT and R&H - were so low as well. But the second and third singles from AB were huge and generated monster sales for the album. GOYB is similar to "The Fly" - informed the public of new U2 and that it may be a slightly different sound. That's it. Now it's up to the next few singles to really sell NLOTH.

5) Like it or not, the members of U2 are nearing 50. Age plays a role. This is why Coldplay can have big numbers. But even they needed a huge single to help.

6) The economy is abysmal. If one doesn't have a job and needs to determine whether $$ should be put aside for an album or for food or bills, guess which one wins? People are more worried about paying bills than rushing out to enjoy something liesurely.

Bottom line: the first week sales are pretty much were most of us who play in the "Peeling Off" forum predicted. This article focuses on a very small part - the fact that GOYB wasn't huge. Neither was "The Fly" or "Numb" (as "Numb" wasn't even available for purchase as a single). Yet, "Zooropa" is the only U2 album in the SoundScan era to spend more than one week at #1.

Plus, at this point in their lives, does U2 really need another monster selling album? Didn't they already prove themselves with the last two albums (that sold over 20M copies worldwide, despite illegal downloads)?

If the second and third single take off and the tour is popular, NLOTH will linger for a while, just like ATYCLB and HTDAAB. Sales may not be overwhelming, but they will be consistent. And consistent weekly sales will add up. In other words, weeks 2 through 102 are just as, if not more important, than week 1.

:love:
 
The more I listen to this record, the more I feel "musically refreshed"....

I just feel like this album has much, much less potential to "go stale" than, say, an ATYCLB, HTDAAB or even a Rattle and Hum... this is not a real criticism of those albums, just that out of an outstanding back catalogue, some albums are better than other great ones...

There is much more COLOUR in this music, more layers, new instruments, sounds, beats, loops, guitar parts, organ lines, backing vocals, sneaky riffs and licks that (like some on Achtung) might go unnoticed by some listeners, including me, for ten years!

I am still discovering new sounds and notes and grooves hidden in Achtung to this very day would you believe and I have no doubt this album has the same sonic scope...

I feel, when listening, that No Line is like a record made in a moon full of craters and seas and valleys... not a flat line album from start to end, but an album that has hidden caves, crevices, twists, turns, craters even, in which some sonically brilliant sounds are hidden, new ones to be explored with each listen...

I don't know much about the art of music, but I know what music I like, and I like this... Fresh, exciting, challening even, forcing me to actually listen rather than just setting it all out in front of me like a buffet... This is music to dig into, real rock music for rock music fans deprived of challenges by today's trends and laziness...

what a fantastic commentary _ I agree this album is a grower, and bloody brilliant imo I have been a fan since 82 (before Scarlet/October) and imo this great collection sits alongside the best they have done (War, TJT, AB) and from early impressions might just be up there too iro live performances _ can't wait really Mike (stopped counting at 50 live concerts)
 
Every fan is a cannibal
Every troll is a thief
All kill their inspiration
And sing about the grief
 
The more I listen to this record, the more I feel "musically refreshed"....

I just feel like this album has much, much less potential to "go stale" than, say, an ATYCLB, HTDAAB or even a Rattle and Hum... this is not a real criticism of those albums, just that out of an outstanding back catalogue, some albums are better than other great ones...

There is much more COLOUR in this music, more layers, new instruments, sounds, beats, loops, guitar parts, organ lines, backing vocals, sneaky riffs and licks that (like some on Achtung) might go unnoticed by some listeners, including me, for ten years!

I am still discovering new sounds and notes and grooves hidden in Achtung to this very day would you believe and I have no doubt this album has the same sonic scope...

I feel, when listening, that No Line is like a record made in a moon full of craters and seas and valleys... not a flat line album from start to end, but an album that has hidden caves, crevices, twists, turns, craters even, in which some sonically brilliant sounds are hidden, new ones to be explored with each listen...

I don't know much about the art of music, but I know what music I like, and I like this... Fresh, exciting, challening even, forcing me to actually listen rather than just setting it all out in front of me like a buffet... This is music to dig into, real rock music for rock music fans deprived of challenges by today's trends and laziness...

Great post, I agree with you :up:

BTW in Spain NLOTH went platinum after 4 hours from its release, that's not normal here, I can tell, I think it didn't happen since TJT, and I'm talking in general not only about U2 albums.
 
one thing i wanted to ask....is the negativity REALLY that bad? Most of the reviews from big publications have been overall positive, the ones like Pitchfork we expected.

On this forum...well, people always complain.
 
The reasons why NLOTH is not selling as well as it should be (lets say HTDAAB levels):
1. Lead off single Get On Your Boots was panned and got limited airtime.
2. It's been released in March, which is not a good time to sell a new album. It's cold, people shop less. It has lost out on the 'Christmas present market' the last two albums enjoyed.
3. The recession.
4. The leak, the proliferation of sharing sites, limewire,youtube.
5. All album sales have suffered of late because of point 4.
6. Streaming the album for free on the website (and it's continued streaming after release-crazy!).
7. The album is a sum of it's parts rather than a collection of radio friendly singles (a plus point for me).
8. The public perception of Bono isn't very good.
9. U2 have left it too long since releasing the last album.
10. Are U2 trying too hard with the promo?

At present the current album is selling around half of the amount of copies than HTDAAB at this stage. Taking the above into account, are we that surprised?
I love the new album, and I think that it will sell steadily over the year, and hopefully future releases of Breathe and Magnificent will help it. 51/2 mil max.
 
I think it's too early to predict the beginning of the end. Let's wait and see.

And remember, Bomb was recieved well at first, and now it's considered their worst album. This album has more layers to it than Bomb, so I think it'll take more time for the public to warm up to it. This is not a commercial album.
 
And remember, Bomb was recieved well at first, and now it's considered their worst album. This album has more layers to it than Bomb, so I think it'll take more time for the public to warm up to it. This is not a commercial album.

Who considers HTDAAB their worst album? I think it's better overall than ATYCLB, though probably not as good as the much-maligned Pop.

"Worst" is, of course, a relative term for U2. I don't think they've ever put out a truly bad album, so to call any one album the "worst" seems to imply too harsh a judgment for work that is still miles ahead of about 95% of the stuff others are putting out.
 
So "Boots" hasn't gone over too well. That's fine; the band seems to know that - in America, anyway - the song isn't gaining speed. That's probably why they've been playing "Magnificent" and "Breathe" more than "Boots" this week. I was sure that they would start out their week at Letterman with "Boots" since it's the first single, but they're saving it for Friday! I think that's a good move: sweep it under the rug and expose Americans to "Magnificent" instead. The album (as of now) is both the number one and number two album on iTunes, but GOYB is nowhere to be seen on the Top Songs list.
 
Hey look, I'm happy they put out Magnificent, Breathe, and Fez-born again, that's enough for me. However, if we're going to seriously discuss how good the album is, let's actually consider reality here. The lead single's top position was what? 64th? That's not good reception for what some were calling the most anticipated album of the year. When you consider Viva la Vida sold double of NLOTH on the first day of sale, you gotta wonder about the band's relevance slipping. It's like the Stones in the 80's, it has to happen some time, is it happening now?


37 champ in the US. And up to 24 on the Global Track Chart which is essentially more important.

And it will do 400K at least first week US and around 1.2 to 1.5 first week globally. Plus, unlike HTDAAB this album has a potential to be a strong word of mouth album for its entirety while Bomb relied on Vertigo. Finally, the transition of the songs performed so far into the live format have been generally received as impressive which always assists a new album when on tour.
 
Hey look, I'm happy they put out Magnificent, Breathe, and Fez-born again, that's enough for me.

When did I go in a coma? they put out FEZ - Being Born.? and the name changed?
Someone call my family and tell them I'm OK. Just in a alternate universe.:huh:

I agree. Not talking about you specifically walkon, but just in general. I cant be bothered with all the technical stuff, sales charts, statistics, what other people think about U2, etc. I just put my damn cd in and fully enjoy everything that comes out of it.

Thank you. :up:

I think it's too early to predict the beginning of the end. Let's wait and see.


Ya think?
I cannot even fathom what's so wrong with this album that it give someone THAT! impression. Well, except for some of the critics.
Too bad for those that depend on someone else liking it for them to appreciate it.:huh:
 
one thing i wanted to ask....is the negativity REALLY that bad? Most of the reviews from big publications have been overall positive, the ones like Pitchfork we expected.

On this forum...well, people always complain.

It hasn't been bad at all, I don't think.
Some people just can't read anything negative without whining about it.

In terms of the Interference reaction, it's my opinion that:
The negative reactions grew over time with ATYCLB.
And they were bad from the jump on HTDAAB and just got worse.

I think this one is closer to ATYCLB, although that was such a big jump in sound, and this forum was PACKED to the hilt with POP heads. So there was a pretty negative reaction back then.

So yeah, this one hasn't been shit.
The poll taken was amazingly positive.

It might get worse over time but I doubt it.
This album at least has some layers and at this point, if you haven't accepted that this is the U2 sound, and where they will always be from here on out, (in some manner) then I say give it up and move to another forum.

I would have, had I not liked this album, in all honesty.
I don't think the fans who still are in love with the band should have to put up with the kind of bullshit that has gone over here over the years. I include myself in that, at times I've been an insufferable criticism machine when it comes to U2.

It's a done deal. This is who they are. Get on the bus or off it.
 
one thing i wanted to ask....is the negativity REALLY that bad? Most of the reviews from big publications have been overall positive, the ones like Pitchfork we expected.

On this forum...well, people always complain.

It seems to me that the common threads in bad reviews have had these arguments in common:

- Bono is a wanker
- They are too old
- Boots was not a good choice of single
- Bono is a wanker who loves himself
- The album does not have ANY catchy singles [!!!]
- Like their last two albums they are trying too hard to sound like themselves [again!!!!]
- It sounds too much like U2 / it doesn't sound enough like U2 [sometimes both views whinged in the same review... LOL]
- Bono thinks he is God... and is a wanker
- [insert song] is terrible so the whole album sucks
- They are "irrelevant" [whatever that weasel word actually means]

Also, I seem to get the impression from a lot of the relatively few bad reviews, that sometimes the reviewer does not appear to know much about music. Wrong song titles, guitar solos attributed to the wrong song etc. Oh yes, and a lot of "God accross the road", "Napoleon in high heels", "Right to be ridiculous..." references. Oh, and that Bono is a wanker.

The good reviews, along with an apparently strong knowlegde of music, seem to have these themes in common:

- Bono is a lovable roguish wanker
- U2's best album since Achtung
- Wonderful, inventive, non-linear collection of songs
- Much better than their last two records
- The Edge on fire, writing some of his best riffs
- Eno and Lanois pushing the band much further towards new sounds
- Layered music
- [insert song name] is not a great song but the overall album rocks
- Adam and Larry at the peak of their powers
- Bono's voice in good shape
- A return to new ideas, what U2 is really meant to be about
- Amazing that 48-49 year olds can write a record this good which is "relevant" to the youth of today
- And outpourings of love for various songs, eg. Magnificent, Moment of Surrender, Unknown Caller, No Line On The Horizon, Breathe, Fez-Being Born, Cedars of Lebanon
- and Bono is a wanker, but we knew that anyway and he knows it too, so who cares.

So, there we have it. My random assessment is that the negative articles have all been written with personal attacks on Bono in mind, and age-ist criticisms that somehow when you reach a certain number which indicates when you were born, it is like a stop clock and indicates that you can lo longer make good music, period, even if you still make good music!

The negative reviewers in the press are all clearly going into their pieces of journalism ready and locked and loaded with their anti-U2 opinions, salivating at the prospect of writing a review of a band they generally hate.

The positive reviews are more of a balance between the hard-core U2 fans, casual U2 fans and true afficionados and appreciators of music, people who have listened to the album with open ears, hearts and minds.

Hence, I personally believe that most of the negative reviews should be ignored. Album sales over these next few weeks won't mean much in the end, it's the next couple of years and the tour which will push the sales of NLOTH to astronomical levels. Mark - my -words....:D

Lastly, the first ever 5-star review of their career from Rolling Stone, fills me with optimism and is a good indication of where this record sits in the grand scheme of things...
 
GOYB's is the worst lead single they've done this decade, end of discussion, it's way too silly for a band of their vintage to be spruiking "sexy boots!" :doh:

I don't think the new album is exceedingly good, it could be better, it isn't fully realised. I think that may be down to the convulted recording process, it almost seems like they had trouble getting an album together so they had to extend the release date and the end result still isn't totally there.

It's better than HTDAAB, but not by that much. It's one of their second tier albums alongside R&H, Pop, Zooropa etc.

When I listen to it I have a strong feeling that the U2 of the JT/AB era are truly gone, never to return. Never again will they reach that level of focus and artistic achievement. Which makes me sad :|

I think Bono seems to have lost some of his creative self (and lyrical genius), to his other humanitarian work. Reading the Observer article, shows you just how much it enroaches on the music, even when they're recording in Morocco.
 
What a ridiculous thread. Firstly, who cares what the masses think? The problem is that U2 have cared these last few years, and the result has been ATYCLB and HTDAAB. And as for the comparisons with Pop- bring them on! It was a great album- a brave album. I've no idea what walkon 274 is whining on about.
 
GOYB's is the worst lead single they've done this decade, end of discussion, it's way too silly for a band of their vintage to be spruiking "sexy boots!" :doh:.

Maybe it's something every artist of their age goes through. Nick Cave has been going through a "dirty old man" phase recently too, especially with the Grinderman project (and the 1970 porn star moustache!)

It's better than HTDAAB, but not by that much. It's one of their second tier albums alongside R&H, Pop, Zooropa etc.

Well, "second tier" is relative here. Sure, it's not as great as JT or Achtung, but most bands never make a masterpiece like either of those once in their careers, and would kill to have "second-tier" U2 albums like Zooropa, Pop, HTYCLB, HTDAAB, and NLOTH as their main achievements.

All in all, I say, well done lads. I think it's great that they're still making music that excites me and interests me this long into their career, and I couldn't give a shit what the mainstream critics or masses think. If the album sold just one copy - to me - I'd be happy with it.

Too much talk of "relevance" (without spelling out exactly what that's supposed to mean or providing any context), sales, and chart positions around here, and not enough focus on the music.
 
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