Lillywhite talks next project

[ozeeko]

i don't know bout u guys but i like the chorus to EBW. i like how it's understated and how the song doesn't build to this big crescendo, and how the pre-chorus "hey hey now" is the louder part, that gives way to the softer chorus. not every song has to be a huge hit, this song can just work the way it is...just a song.

 

[U2girl]

It's nice but they can do better than "hey hey now" and the reuse of "don't know if I'm that strong" from Playboy Mansion.

 

[BEAL]

It's not that I want a huge big song like WOWY. But EBW is a very weak song at it's core right now and hopefully some studio magic or actual effects can make it a better song. But from a bare bones perspective, it's boring imo

 

[PookaMacP]

To give Lillywhite his dues, this is a fairly perceptive comment too:

@U2: That was your point about No Line On The Horizon, right, that the content got lost? The content of Fez and Northern Africa?

Lillywhite: Yeah, I still stand by the best U2 albums having a great big picture, meaning a great vision for the album. For The Joshua Tree it was the desert and you feel it, even though it wasn't really recorded in the desert. And Achtung Baby was East Germany, even though most of it was done in Dublin. And with Morocco, you don't even know it was recorded there.

 

[canedge]

In that YT interview Lillywhite also mentioned that he help discover MGMT.

He also discussed how he has a knack for discovering art.

 

[LemonMelon]

He's heard the sessions though. There's nothing presumptous about having an opinion on those recordings.

There isn't anything to indicate that Lillywhite is involved in the DM songs, or any other recordings.

As for NLOTH...Crazy a good pop song, the kind that IMO Eno and Lanois can't produce. SUC, Eno and Lanois share the blame. And Boots is a far bigger letdown on Eno/Lanois' part than anything on NLOTH or Bomb on Lillywhite's part.

The one solo production credit he has on NLOTH is Breathe. He had some crucial ideas on Bomb (which had so many people involved the overall sound can't be blamed solely on him) as well, such as delivering a lead single - something the usually brilliant duo of Eno/Lanois overlooked on NLOTH, and an actual chorus for Sometimes. It was his idea to play the new songs live.

But he sucks.

You're naive if you believe that a shaky U2 with no clear direction that has already played the sessions for Lillywhite won't come crawling back to him in a bind. That's their way, and while it used to work for them, Lillywhite has not been the sole producer of a great album since the 90s. He's written some successful pop songs, but a lasting work of art? It's been a while. While I have no problem with him sharing his opinion, I'm not oblivious to the fact that he will have his hand at these tracks eventually; it already seems as if he's trying to sell himself.

I don't actually believe Lillywhite ruined HTDAAB; it's about even for me. He polished the edge clean off the record, but a number of the songs (SYCMIOYO especially) were so bad that further work was certainly required. That album is faceless, and he hardly stamped a personality onto it, but I'm not sure it ever could have been great, considering the circumstances.

There's an important distinction to make here: Lillywhite mixed Breathe, but he didn't write it. Edge and Lanois did. The raw material was already in place before Lillywhite could make his suggestions, so the product was actually pretty great. In contrast, Lillywhite and will.i.am were always behind Crazy Tonight, so there it lies. He's the "closer," apparently, so I guess he doesn't need to be a songwriting savant, but it would make me think a little more highly of him if he was writing these tracks I love so much instead of fashioning them into U2-ready products. The further he is into the songwriting process, the less damage he causes. I would prefer that he stay away entirely for this next one (TUF, Zooropa and Pop are all brilliant albums in my view, none of them involving Lillywhite), but that's just me.

Much credit to him for asking the band to play new songs live: I think that's a no-brainer for any band who wants to develop their songs properly. It offers instant feedback and gets the band more comfortable with the pace and flow of the songs so they can improve it later. It toughens the songs and makes them more direct, as opposed to studio tinkering.

He also discussed how he has a knack for discovering art.

He has a knack for discovering ways to come across badly.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

how the song doesn't build to this big crescendo

It probably does though. It was described as a song that built up like WOWY. The ending sounds like it could go big pretty easily. And you can easily 'hear' Bono giving it more and more as it moves on, WOWY-like.

The whole thing with the live version is that you might be able to just completely ignore what Edge is doing. You've got the melody, but the music... lord knows what it's really like. Entirely possible that Edge is doing absolutely nothing like that on the studio version, either with what he's playing or how it sounds (my guess - verse similar, chorus very different.) And similarly, something like the chorus, in that format it sounds pretty weak or simple or like something that needs more work, but with the right stuff going on behind or around it, something far more complimentary than Edge's pretty wonky placeholder part, it might come off very different. Might even be sung different too.

 

[Niceman]

This is exactly how that quote made me feel....

 

[nirniva]

In that YT interview Lillywhite also mentioned that he help discover MGMT.

Really? That's pretty neat.

He also discussed how he has a knack for discovering art.

...Okay, never mind. Maybe it's just that it's out of context, but that sounds really pretentious.

 

[powerhour24]

Lets just recognize that like the band and Lanois and Eno, they're human, not everything they do is gold, or trash. Sometimes they compliment each other better at others. Though granted other than his production on Breathe and the fixed version of Sometimes, I don't think he's helped them much in the past decade or so. The truth is they've gotten to the point where they don't know which side of themselves to present to the world too many times as of late, which takes them from wanting to go after a concept, to wanting to make sure the fans are still with them, which brings them back to Lillywhite to smooth things over. You can't blame the man for the band's apprehension.

They need to trust their gut, and then if they want to present another side, they should release a different project, rather than losing the completeness of the one they release. And that definitely means trusting one producer.

You wanted an album of U2 as a confessional garage band, you should have trusted your gut even if Chris Thomas isn't someone you're comfortable with personally. You wanted an organic sounding album of future hymns, release that and be proud of it. This time around, you hacked together an entire album worth of songs with Danger Mouse, let him be the sole producer. If next time you work with Lanois/Eno, use them only (or only getting slight input from a few others as Lillywhite, et al did for JT/AB).

I still stand by the idea that the band need to just release an album they produce alone, even if it's made up of past songs they never finished. Just listen to how fresh and energetic NLOTH2 was!


All that said, in no way do his comments, or him hearing the new songs indicate that he'll be brought in this time around.

 

[powerhour24]

So this.

 

[U2girl]

You're naive if you believe that a shaky U2 with no clear direction that has already played the sessions for Lillywhite won't come crawling back to him in a bind. That's their way, and while it used to work for them, Lillywhite has not been the sole producer of a great album since the 90s. He's written some successful pop songs, but a lasting work of art? It's been a while. While I have no problem with him sharing his opinion, I'm not oblivious to the fact that he will have his hand at these tracks eventually; it already seems as if he's trying to sell himself.

I don't actually believe Lillywhite ruined HTDAAB; it's about even for me. He polished the edge clean off the record, but a number of the songs (SYCMIOYO especially) were so bad that further work was certainly required. That album is faceless, and he hardly stamped a personality onto it, but I'm not sure it ever could have been great, considering the circumstances.

There's an important distinction to make here: Lillywhite mixed Breathe, but he didn't write it. Edge and Lanois did. The raw material was already in place before Lillywhite could make his suggestions, so the product was actually pretty great. In contrast, Lillywhite and will.i.am were always behind Crazy Tonight, so there it lies. He's the "closer," apparently, so I guess he doesn't need to be a songwriting savant, but it would make me think a little more highly of him if he was writing these tracks I love so much instead of fashioning them into U2-ready products. The further he is into the songwriting process, the less damage he causes. I would prefer that he stay away entirely for this next one (TUF, Zooropa and Pop are all brilliant albums in my view, none of them involving Lillywhite), but that's just me.

Much credit to him for asking the band to play new songs live: I think that's a no-brainer for any band who wants to develop their songs properly. It offers instant feedback and gets the band more comfortable with the pace and flow of the songs so they can improve it later. It toughens the songs and makes them more direct, as opposed to studio tinkering.

It's certainly possible Lillywhite will enter the picture; but right now, it seems they're sticking with DM, and DM alone. It sounds more like since he was in NY anyway, working on Spiderman, they got his opinion. Similar to how Lanois spend that one week during HTDAAB sessions.

Oh I don't think it's a great album - I think it went from being quasi stripped down rock and roll/guitars album to a retro U2 album, and ended up in the middle.

True...but still the production is good on Breathe. Though I think the song did get re-written once Lillywhite got on board...should find the quotes. Here it is:

The band worked on one version of the song with producers Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois for a long time before the band scrapped and recreated it. Eno had referred to the demo version as one of his favorite U2 songs of all time.


Wait - you say you want him to write songs, but the further he is into the writing process the less damage he does ?
Not sure how much writing he actually does - Eno and Lanois probably do more of that. Except maybe Bomb where he had more - valuable - input.

I think he will stay away from this album. Once he's in...so are Eno and Lanois.

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

You're dangerous you don't know what you want. Sounds like U2 right now.

 

[Hollow Island]

I was listening to War a lot when it was announced that Lillywhite would be producing Bomb, and I got really excited. I thought U2 would revive that hard sound and basically make a sequel to War, given the state of the world ... needless to say I was disappointed, and it's the only U2 record I don't like. I can't even sit through a whole song on that one, they're all so bad.

However, Lillywhite can't be blamed for the blandification of that record, or the aspects of NLOTH and ATYCLB that people (including me) don't like. That comes down to U2, their songwriting, what they want to producers and mixers to do, and their approval of shit like Crazy Tonight. Lillywhite worked on all of their great albums (Zooropa aside), so he can do good work if U2 are making good decisions. But the responsibility is theirs, and he gets too much blame. If their next record is a bland rock/pop record filled with three note arpeggios, it's because of what U2 want, not Lillywhite.

 

[LPU2]

How Steve 'The Closer' Lillywhite Helped Spider-Man Turn On The Music

he worked quite a bit on Every Brewaking Wave during the NLOTH sessions, but the band are still tinkering with it. Lillywhite doesn't think the song has a chorus (please, guys, don't ruin that chorus or touch the song at all, for that matter)

Agree. "One" doesn't have a chorus either. Nothing annoys me more about U2 than the constant tinkering with songs that, more often than not, diminish them. Why can't the "I don't know if I'm that strong" line be the chorus?

 

[powerhour24]

However, Lillywhite can't be blamed for the blandification of that record, or the aspects of NLOTH and ATYCLB that people (including me) don't like. That comes down to U2, their songwriting, what they want to producers and mixers to do, and their approval of shit like Crazy Tonight. Lillywhite worked on all of their great albums (Zooropa aside), so he can do good work if U2 are making good decisions. But the responsibility is theirs, and he gets too much blame. If their next record is a bland rock/pop record filled with three note arpeggios, it's because of what U2 want, not Lillywhite.

Buddy, this is probably the first time I wholeheartedly agree with something you've posted, .

 

[powerhour24]

Agree. "One" doesn't have a chorus either. Nothing annoys me more about U2 than the constant tinkering with songs that, more often than not, diminish them. Why can't the "I don't know if I'm that strong" line be the chorus?

Word, just look at Moment of Surrender, one take and done.

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

However, Lillywhite can't be blamed for the blandification of that record, or the aspects of NLOTH and ATYCLB that people (including me) don't like. That comes down to U2, their songwriting, what they want to producers and mixers to do, and their approval of shit like Crazy Tonight. Lillywhite worked on all of their great albums (Zooropa aside), so he can do good work if U2 are making good decisions. But the responsibility is theirs, and he gets too much blame. If their next record is a bland rock/pop record filled with three note arpeggios, it's because of what U2 want, not Lillywhite.

That is a good point, ultimately it does come down to U2.

But remember, their producers do have the power to influence. And Lillywhite seems to have used his influence to make the songs more commercial. For example, Lillywhite telling the band to make a hook for SYCMIOYO (which they then did), or of course now saying Every Breaking Wave needs a chorus. So, of course much of the results come down to what u2 wants, but i think the final product can very much be shaped by a producers influence. I remember reading in u2byu2 that he heard the unforgettable fire in its early form and said "well, as long as you have 'pride', then you've got your hit, you'll be fine". Evidently, Lillwhite places emphasis on the commercial side of things.

Evidently Lillwhite has on at least a couple of occasions advised the band to change their songs, and well, this is the guy that produced Boy and War, who first got them going as rock stars, so why would/should u2 have argued? ... so i guess both U2 and their producers could be considered responsible.

 

[Hollow Island]

That is a good point, ultimately it does come down to U2.

But remember, their producers do have the power to influence. And Lillywhite seems to have used his influence to make the songs more commercial. For example, Lillywhite telling the band to make a hook for SYCMIOYO (which they then did), or of course now saying Every Breaking Wave needs a chorus. So, of course much of the results come down to what u2 wants, but i think the final product can very much be shaped by a producers influence. I remember reading in u2byu2 that he heard the unforgettable fire in its early form and said "well, as long as you have 'pride', then you've got your hit, you'll be fine". Evidently, Lillwhite places emphasis on the commercial side of things.

Evidently Lillwhite has on at least a couple of occasions advised the band to change their songs, and well, this is the guy that produced Boy and War, who first got them going as rock stars, so why would/should u2 have argued? ... so i guess both U2 and their producers could be considered responsible.

Yeah, totally. They have the power to influence, but not to dictate what is done with their influence. For every instance where they took his advice, ie Sometimes...there are probably ten times where they say, "No thanks" to his songwriting suggestions. These are grown men who know what they're doing. I think his suggestion for a chorus for Sometimes was a good one, it made the song a lot stronger (it still has a bland arrangement and a bridge that doesn't fit at all and ruins the song).

They already had Boy written before the record, so he couldn't have had that much of an influence aside from making it sound good and encouraging Bono's Siouxie impersonation. And I think - I hope - that if they were looking for advice they'd value Eno or Lanois suggestions over Lillywhite's because they are both genius musicians and songwriters on their own, and Eno has contributed to the best work of Bowie and the Talking Heads, two artists who's influence on U2 is pretty significant, and he has probably been the most important person to work on a U2 record aside from the four band members. Still, he can say what he wants, and if he gives bad advice - and I'm sure he has, though the near perfection of the records he's produced for U2 makes me doubt this - it is U2s responsibility for taking it. They are strong willed, capable men who know what they want, and frequently know how to get it. If they think Lillywhite will do what they want, and it sucks, it's still their fault for chosing to work with someone who is no longer worthy of working with them. Like, didn't he do a bunch of Dave Matthew's records??

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

Yeah, totally. They have the power to influence, but not to dictate what is done with their influence. For every instance where they took his advice, ie Sometimes...there are probably ten times where they say, "No thanks" to his songwriting suggestions. These are grown men who know what they're doing. I think his suggestion for a chorus for Sometimes was a good one, it made the song a lot stronger (it still has a bland arrangement and a bridge that doesn't fit at all and ruins the song).

They already had Boy written before the record, so he couldn't have had that much of an influence aside from making it sound good and encouraging Bono's Siouxie impersonation. And I think - I hope - that if they were looking for advice they'd value Eno or Lanois suggestions over Lillywhite's because they are both genius musicians and songwriters on their own, and Eno has contributed to the best work of Bowie and the Talking Heads, two artists who's influence on U2 is pretty significant, and he has probably been the most important person to work on a U2 record aside from the four band members. Still, he can say what he wants, and if he gives bad advice - and I'm sure he has, though the near perfection of the records he's produced for U2 makes me doubt this - it is U2s responsibility for taking it. They are strong willed, capable men who know what they want, and frequently know how to get it. If they think Lillywhite will do what they want, and it sucks, it's still their fault for chosing to work with someone who is no longer worthy of working with them. Like, didn't he do a bunch of Dave Matthew's records??

Well said
It's very true, the producers can only be blamed so much. It is ultimately u2 that have the say over everyone else.

 

[powerhour24]

I think it'd be interesting to see what a record solely produced by Lanois from them would be like, Eno loves his ambient influence but when it comes to distilling all the directions the band is going in and along with their default drawn out process he doesn't know how to make them stop, which is why they turn around hat in hand to Lillywhite. But Lanois is the more song-writing oriented of the two of them, and the vast majority of the production on AB is his alone, I'd be interested to see what they'd do with him without Eno's continued noodling.

 

[Niceman]

I suspect Million Dollar Hotel is as close as they'll get to that.

 

[scottyT]

If the man hadn't been with U2 from the outset, I would call him a presumptuous ass for sticking his nose into sessions he wasn't overseeing and proclaiming them shitty or fruitless.

Lillywhite would be a horrible, HORRIBLE choice for polishing the Danger Mouse sessions. DM-produced albums typically feel very dreamy and off-the-cuff and are characterized by taut individual tracks. It would be like throwing the TUF tracks at Lillywhite and asking him to make sense of them. The RedOne tracks, however, he might be able to beat into something palatable.

Lillywhite just all around sucks these days though. The man used to be brilliant...The La's debut, Big Country's The Crossing, Peter Gabriel's Melt, Morrissey's Vauxhall & I, obviously Boctowar...but now he's responsible for Jason Mraz, Switchfoot and the crappiest NLOTH tracks. I really don't want him near U2 right now.

switchfoot hasn't put a bad song out in 10 years. You're out of your mind if you think so. Listen to hello hurricane. It is a tour de force. Easily one of the best albums put out in the last 10-15 years.

 

[powerhour24]

I think Switchfoot has been pretty darn weak since they broke through in 2003, but Hello Hurricane was indeed something different from them. That said Jon Foreman has done some strong songwriting outside of the band in that time.

 

[shart1780]

I'm having a hard time caring anymore. I'm so used to be reminded that there's no point in awaiting a new album any time soon. It's like waiting for Peter Gabriel to release an album (on a smaller scale). Nothing he says means anything until you have the album in your hands.

And I didn't know Switchfoot made knew music... or that people took it seriously.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Lillywhite telling the band to make a hook for SYCMIOYO (which they then did),

and in that case, it was a very wise decision... the alternative version of sometimes is awful.

u2 have always wanted to be commercially relevant. this is not a new phenomenon. it's not lillywhite's fault.

 

[digitize]

I think the distinction between "substance" and "style" is utterly meaningless in this context.

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

and in that case, it was a very wise decision... the alternative version of sometimes is awful.

u2 have always wanted to be commercially relevant. this is not a new phenomenon. it's not lillywhite's fault.

I agree it was a wise decision, and that U2 have always wanted to be relevant, and i think that's fair enough (what band wouldn't want to be big and successful).
However i wouldn't be surprised if Lillywhite has pushed the band to make their songs sound more commercial (without direction from the band), considering his focuses in the past... although, it is of course up to the band to take or leave his advice.

 

[powerhour24]

Sometimes is the only song on the Bomb that benefitted from the reworking.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Sometimes is the only song on the Bomb that benefitted from the reworking.

all because of you is better on record than the alt version, and if it was his call to switch to vertigo instead of native son, then yea, kudos for that one as well.

you may disagree, with the last one especially, because music is subjective and all... but i think vertigo did, oh, fairly well commercially, so there can't really be many complaints made about that decision.