Is 'Winter' THE song U2 should re-work for the new album?

[The Slow Loris]

I did what you recommended for Rattle and Hum (the studio only playlist) and I'm thoroughly enjoying it - so you've built some credibility with me (not that you need it).

Perhaps if we get these songs as b-sides or in a rarities collection, we can build another "alternative" NLOTH.

Glad you're enjoying the "new version" of Rattle & Hum! It makes a huge difference. I really wish U2 had separated the studio cuts from the live cuts and made a double album called "Rattle" & "Hum"...would have worked really well with that name.

As for 'Winter', I really feel it was a classic in the making. Brian Eno actually said U2 were crazy for taking a "beautiful" song like that off the album. Maybe they didn't have the time to finish it...

 

[AEON]

The lyrics are what killed No Line, no doubt.

The lyrics are the only real problem I have with any U2 album since Achtung. It's a shame they're so important.

 

[The Slow Loris]

The lyrics are the only real problem I have with any U2 album since Achtung. It's a shame they're so important.

Yes, but still moments of brilliance abound. Without the post-Achtung Baby era, we would have never have had this:

Listen to your words - they'll tell you what to do
Listen over the rhythm that's confusing you
Listen to the reed in the saxophone
Listen over the hum of the radio
Listen over sounds of blades in rotation
Listen through the traffic in circulation
Listen as hope and peace try to rhyme
Listen over marching bands playing out their time

 

[Blue Room]

I guess I'm in the minority. I like the original Winter from Linear. I think it should have made the album. Didn't Eno say they were crazy to not include it or was that a different song?

 

[AEON]

Yes, but still moments of brilliance abound. Without the post-Achtung Baby era, we would have never have had this:

Listen to your words - they'll tell you what to do
Listen over the rhythm that's confusing you
Listen to the reed in the saxophone
Listen over the hum of the radio
Listen over sounds of blades in rotation
Listen through the traffic in circulation
Listen as hope and peace try to rhyme
Listen over marching bands playing out their time

True - there a some great ones in just about every song. But one terrible line can trip up everything else. I think that's why Kevin Shields buries the vocals so deep for MBV. I'm not saying U2 should do the same, but perhaps something more abstract is in order. Someone in Bono's inner circle needs to make him aware of this on this album.

 

[The Slow Loris]

True - there a some great ones in just about every song. But one terrible line can trip up everything else. I think that's why Kevin Shields buries the vocals so deep for MBV. I'm not saying U2 should do the same, but perhaps something more abstract is in order. Someone in Bono's inner circle needs to make him aware of this on this album.

I can understand blurred lyrics and the "wall of sound" technique as almost a medium to record music as an artist would use pastel colors as a medium to paint. However, I don't really agree it should be used as a "crutch" or a way of covering up bad lyrics. What Bono should be focussed on instead is avoiding clumsy lyrics and, for example, avoiding rhyming "fly" with "sky" (or vice versa) as he does in songs like 'Even Better Than the Real Thing' and 'Elevation'. (As a side note, it's funny how U2 fans never complain when it happens on an album like Achtung Baby - when Bono was young and fashionable - but now they feel justified to complain about the exact same lyrics.)

Anyway, I do agree with you that one single line can tarnish an otherwise great song. (Bono, please, please, please, never again try and rhyme "idea" with "new media" again! The beauty and timelessness of 'Kite' was left a little tarnished and dated after trying to digest that last line.)

 

[gvox]

Anyway, I do agree with you that one single line can tarnish an otherwise great song. (Bono, please, please, please, never again try and rhyme "idea" with "new media" again! The beauty and timelessness of 'Kite' was left a little tarnished and dated after trying to digest that last line.)

Disagree completely. That line is fine with me and fits right in.

If you want to pick on a line from Kite, the fragrant basement is far worse lol

 

[pocketmerlin]

"Kite" is perfect as is. STAHP.

 

[The Slow Loris]

Disagree completely. That line is fine with me and fits right in.

If you want to pick on a line from Kite, the fragrant basement is far worse lol

And I actually really like the line, "Life should be fragrant, rooftop to the basement." It has a certain melancholy that fits perfectly with the music, at least for me. Goes to show we all see/feel something different. There are people who can completely relate to the "Freedom has a scent like the top of a newborn babies head" line, which I find utterly cringe-worthy. (I guess it's because Slow Lorises don't smell that great when they're babies, being primates and all....go figure.)

 

[david]

Wow, this thread is heavy... Heavy as a truck....

 

[AEON]

Wow, this thread is heavy... Heavy as a truck....

 

[AEON]

Disagree completely. That line is fine with me and fits right in.

If you want to pick on a line from Kite, the fragrant basement is far worse lol

Must agree on both points here

 

[AEON]

There are people who can completely relate to the "Freedom has a scent like the top of a newborn babies head" line,

These people need to be rounded up and sent to reeducation camps

 

[pacemaker]

I just listened to both versions of Winter for the first time in a long time. I think if the "Viva La Vida" string synth from the Linear version was replaced with a fuzzed out bass, and Bono had finished the vocals (especially the bridge - woof!), it would have been a contender for one of their best songs of the 00s. The Brothers version is very adult contemporary, but once the Eno "Oohs" start, it gets really good (despite the issues with the mixing when the synth strings come in).

I would have much preferred this on NLOTH than Stand Up Comedy (which is by far the worst song U2 has ever recorded...). I guess we can chalk it up to a missed opportunity, but it doesn't need to be re-recorded. Maybe they'll play it on the next tour, giving it a nice new coat of paint.

 

[lemonfly]

Bono seriously needs to ditch the metaphors. I'm hoping the lyrics are more abstract on the new one.

 

[david]

I was never too fond of "a mole digging in a hole"

 

[AEON]

bono seriously needs to ditch the metaphors. I'm hoping the lyrics are more abstract on the new one.

amen

 

[AEON]

I was never too fond of "a mole digging in a hole"

What else could dig a up a soul?

 

[gvox]

And I actually really like the line, "Life should be fragrant, rooftop to the basement." It has a certain melancholy that fits perfectly with the music, at least for me. Goes to show we all see/feel something different. There are people who can completely relate to the "Freedom has a scent like the top of a newborn babies head" line, which I find utterly cringe-worthy. (I guess it's because Slow Lorises don't smell that great when they're babies, being primates and all....go figure.)

My issue with the fragrant basement is that life don't start on the rooftop. Most of us started in our grandparents basement, if you get my meaning.

 

[Irvine511]

I was never too fond of "a mole digging in a hole"

It's a sex metaphor. It's totally dirty.

elevation is sex-as-revelation/epiphany/glimpse of the divine.

"Baby's head" is super weird, but he sings it with so much thrilling force that I buy it just long enough.

"Fragrant" is a good line.

"New media" is not. It's "kite's" only misstep.

The 00's have better lyrics than it might seem, he's actually saying more with less.

"A house still don't make a home / don't leave me here alone" is much more powerful and honest than your typical JT-era "dust / sky / dry / rain."

Lyrics are Pop's most successful aspect.

 

[lazarus]

JT's lyrics are pretty trite for the most part. I think it's most successful when Bono isn't rhyming and is just writing: Running To Stand Still and One Tree Hill.

 

[AEON]

I was never too fond of "a mole digging in a hole"

It's a sex metaphor. It's totally dirty.

Aren't you confusing moles with hamsters?

 

[gvox]

Ugh

 

[AEON]

Either way, using a rodent as metaphor for sex just doesn't work.

 

[Irvine511]

i agree that, say, "face of melting snow" is cooler sex talk, but i think it works, insofar as it's consistent through the song and keeps consistent the theme of finding the sacred in the profane. it might not be to one's taste, but i think it does it's job in the context of the song.

 

[AEON]

JT's lyrics are pretty trite for the most part. I think it's most successful when Bono isn't rhyming and is just writing: Running To Stand Still and One Tree Hill.

Running to Stand Still has quite a bit of rhyming...

And so she woke up
Woke up from where she was
Lying still
Said I gotta do something
About where we're going

Step on a steam train
Step out of the driving rain, maybe
Run from the darkness in the night
Singing ha, ah la la la de day
Ah la la la de day
Ah la la de day

Sweet the sin
Bitter taste in my mouth
I see seven towers
But I only see one way out

You got to cry without weeping
Talk without speaking
Scream without raising your voice

You know I took the poison
From the poison stream
Then I floated out of here
Singing...ha la la la de day
Ha la la la de day
Ha la la de day

She runs through the streets
With her eyes painted red
Under black belly of cloud in the rain
In through a doorway she brings me
White gold and pearls stolen from the sea
She is raging
She is raging
And the storm blows up in her eyes
She will...

Suffer the needle chill
She's running to stand...

Still.

 

[AEON]

i agree that, say, "face of melting snow" is cooler sex talk,

Aye

 

[Irvine511]

i think that accurately makes Laz's point. lyrically, it's a high point on the album, no question, because the music allows Bono to storytell and not be hindered by conventional rhyming schemes.

that said, it's all very pretty and hypnotic, but the words aren't doing a ton of work, they're all description.

 

[AEON]

because the music allows Bono to storytell and not be hindered by conventional rhyming schemes.

I agree, it's not a conventional rhyming scheme. But some of the most powerful points of the song rhyme, especially at the end. It's hard to imagine the song without chill....still.

But I do prefer that Bono unhinge himself from the need to rhyme. It can lead to poor lyrics in order to fit the scheme.

 

[Irvine511]

But I do prefer that Bono unhinge himself from the need to rhyme. It can lead to poor lyrics in order to fit the scheme.

doesn't the structure of the song dictate that? "elevation" needs to rhyme, as it's all shouty and bouncey.