Imagine if Moment Of Surrender was...

[matt76]

I'll give you another week on here BB...

 

[U2girl]

Of course, the only veritable fact that allegedly supports the "planned Pop damage control" theory is that All that... and Bomb sold more units.

It would be easier to take things like that more seriously if we had quotes and interviews confirming U2 wanted to do pop music/search for the perfect single exclusively to make more money and that everything the band has done for the past 8 (make that 10, it started with S. Thing reworking) years was to break the "Pop curse". Not only is there no such thing, it would completely fly in the face of their reported "songwriting by accident" jamming approach in the studio, and the fact that these two culpable albums sounded like nothing on the always desired and coveted US market.

 

[neutral]

Enough silly bickering.

I'd suggest taking a break right about now, Bottle Bono.

 

[last unicorn]

And the elevators only go UP!

Nope, I always walk up the stairs, it's healthier.

Even if that means possibly missing one of U2's recent songs being played in the elevator. Shame. I should use the elevator more often.

But once in a while I hear them in the fruit or even the cheese department of my local supermarket. You're right to condemn this, it's distracting and I always end up buying the wrong cheese.


You're cute.

 

[roy]

Well, commercially it was a success, so it didn't "bomb", as BB has stated. That was the point of my argument. It got mostly great reviews from critics.

I would say that the last 2 albums actually received better reviews than both Zooropa & Pop.

Vocal minorities exist on every forum...plugging away, trying to convince everyone else that they're wrong. It's their hobby.

 

[purpleoscar]

What I like about U2 is that they have different "eras" so there is always an era that some people will like. Hence the huge fan base they have.

 

[PowerSurge]

I understand where this cynicism comes from. But in terms of this being "another lifeless anthem", can't you feel the dissonance right from the beginning? That electric guitar part looped at the beginning isn't exactly welcoming; it's pulling you down into the whirlwind. It doesn't try to wow you quickly with big hooks, either. The thing takes its time. It's poppy in the way Wild Horses is poppy, before the Temple Bar castration mix. It's very dark sonically. And I'll argue that the solo/instrumental break pushes this thing up into the heavens. They haven't soared like this in a LONG time. And it ends obliquely, a far cry from the pat finishes of The Bomb, where what, only 1 song in 11 actually fades out instead of coming to a neat resolution?

You make a great point there with the fact that the guitar is not overly "catchy" or "poppy". I totally agree. Some people say the opposite about SYCMIOYO, though I disagree. But it still is a valid critique on their part.

Hell, I think the MUSIC on Mercy is fantastic. I think Adam absolutely shines on this song with his driving bassline. Larry also drives the song with his bass drum. Edge's guitars are subtle in the parts they need to be subtle and prominent in those parts that need to be as such.

I'm listening to it again, and I think I've figured out what I don't like...and I hate to say it...its Bono's vocals. Its like he's wailing through half the song. He's singing near the top of his register throughout more than half the vocals.
I don't think the lyrics that he's singing need to be sung the way he sings them. He hits the chorus and its too overdone for me.

Think about SYCMIOYO or even ONE. Both songs have very deep meaning and emotional chracter...they have prominent rythym sections and Edge at his best....but they also both have Bono building up to that exploding vocal that makes the song. This song needs a little less Bono wailing and a little more subtlety in the vocals. The music, which is very dark sonically as you so appropriately put it, can drive the song without the need for Bono to wail all over it. Its like he's trying way to hard to make this song into "BAD II" when it really doesn't have to go that route.

You're totally right..the music builds and takes time...unfortunately Bono is way too premature with his build up IMO.

 

[the tourist]

Most everything that's said about how good a song Mercy is are things I could say about She's Gonna Blow Your House Down. And what album was that on?

 

[LemonMelon]

I have no idea why you would want to highlight that quote, since it's not one of your smartest. You're comparing a song that sounds finished to one that doesn't. Which one sounds more album-ready to you right now? Be honest.

 

[LastNameonEarth]

Why does it appear that all threads eventually lead to an argument over the merits of HTDAAB, or whether Mercy should be included on the next album?

 

[LemonMelon]

Why does it appear that all threads eventually lead to an argument over the merits of HTDAAB, or whether Mercy should be included on the next album?

Because people got tired of arguments over Pop's merits and moved on.

 

[lazarus]

You make a great point there with the fact that the guitar is not overly "catchy" or "poppy". I totally agree. Some people say the opposite about SYCMIOYO, though I disagree. But it still is a valid critique on their part.

Hell, I think the MUSIC on Mercy is fantastic. I think Adam absolutely shines on this song with his driving bassline. Larry also drives the song with his bass drum. Edge's guitars are subtle in the parts they need to be subtle and prominent in those parts that need to be as such.

I'm listening to it again, and I think I've figured out what I don't like...and I hate to say it...its Bono's vocals. Its like he's wailing through half the song. He's singing near the top of his register throughout more than half the vocals.
I don't think the lyrics that he's singing need to be sung the way he sings them. He hits the chorus and its too overdone for me.

Think about SYCMIOYO or even ONE. Both songs have very deep meaning and emotional chracter...they have prominent rythym sections and Edge at his best....but they also both have Bono building up to that exploding vocal that makes the song. This song needs a little less Bono wailing and a little more subtlety in the vocals. The music, which is very dark sonically as you so appropriately put it, can drive the song without the need for Bono to wail all over it. Its like he's trying way to hard to make this song into "BAD II" when it really doesn't have to go that route.

You're totally right..the music builds and takes time...unfortunately Bono is way too premature with his build up IMO.

Yeah primarily it's the guitar that has me hooked on this song. As far as the vocal criticism goes, the verses aren't really belted out, so it doesn't bother me that the chorus is. Yeah, he's pushing the boundaries of his limits, but to me it fits the plaintive nature of the material. You could say the same thing about the album version of Bad, which is rather clunky. Also, this may sound like a minor point, but I really love the "Feel nothing...whoo-hoo!" yelp right before the guitar solo (of course that really long "feeeeeel" just breaks down pretty sloppily). And the song ends back on earth, with that understated "again and again and again" chant.

I see your point. But as with Gone, I feel going back to try and lay down a more "perfect" vocal might result in a serious drop in passion.

 

[LastNameonEarth]

Because people got tired of arguments over Pop's merits and moved on.

Ah, gotcha .

Here's one: Imagine if Moment Of Surrender was...the topic of discussion on this thread

I do hope it's not a re-hash of Mercy.

 

[popacrobat]

Ah, gotcha .

Here's one: Imagine if Moment Of Surrender was...the topic of discussion on this thread

I do hope it's not a re-hash of Mercy.

The moment of surrender = to give mercy

 

[Screwtape2]

I do hope it's not a re-hash of Mercy.

I do too. I would be crushed if it was. To me Mercy isn't just a song but sort of a beacon of hope that there would be more U2 songs like this. It sort of represents hope that the band isn't burnt out. Moment of Surrender sounds like one of those songs. The first and fourth beach clips hint at that new direction. My biggest hope really is that U2 can be reborn. If Mercy and Moment of Surrender were the same song that would really be disappointing.

 

[Maassie]

Since Mercy was leaked I dont think they will add it to the new album... It also doesn't 'fit' if you listen to the beach clips! Maybe it will surface as a b-side (with alternate lyrics!)...

 

[LemonMelon]

It also doesn't 'fit' if you listen to the beach clips!

I think it absolutely does. It's entirely in the vein of clips 1 and 4.

 

[popacrobat]

I do too. I would be crushed if it was. To me Mercy isn't just a song but sort of a beacon of hope that there would be more U2 songs like this. It sort of represents hope that the band isn't burnt out. Moment of Surrender sounds like one of those songs. The first and fourth beach clips hint at that new direction. My biggest hope really is that U2 can be reborn. If Mercy and Moment of Surrender were the same song that would really be disappointing.

Isn't this contradictory? You are looking at Mercy as being a beacon of hope. So you don't want them to turn that beacon of hope into an actual song on the album?

 

[LastNameonEarth]

Isn't this contradictory? You are looking at Mercy as being a beacon of hope. So you don't want them to turn that beacon of hope into an actual song on the album?

I think Screwtape2 is saying Mercy is providing hope that U2 can be reborn. If MOS and Mercy are two entirely different songs, but MOS shines as bright, then the hope may be realised. Two songs, with both on the album.

 

[Michael Griffiths]

I don't know, I think I'd rather hear an album full of brand new songs than one less brand new song. If U2 really means it when they say they have "no reverse gears in this tank," I don't see them bringing a finished song from the past into the present. I see them as a band that lives in the present (with a few exceptions such as 'The Sweetest Thing', which was a special case). Further, if they felt 'Mercy' wasn't good enough to make an album last time, I would hope the next album isn't so bad that they now feel it is good enough to make it.

How would people feel if U2 dug old songs out of the Achtung Baby and Joshua Tree vault and re-recorded them for the new album? Songs like 'Heaven and Hell' (Achtung Baby days) or 'My Time Hasn't Come' (from The Joshua Tree days). That just wouldn't really sit right with me. It would scream of a band that has lost the creative spark, a band that has to go back and take songs from the past that were made when they "still had the magic". Thankfully, I don't see U2 as this type of band. U2 always strives to be in the present (not that they haven't finished uncompleted songs for later albums in the past). This I feel could be the biggest reason why we won't see 'Mercy' on the new album. I might be wrong. We'll have to see.

 

[Bottle Bono]

I would say that the last 2 albums actually received better reviews than both Zooropa & Pop.

Vocal minorities exist on every forum...plugging away, trying to convince everyone else that they're wrong. It's their hobby.

That’s the point I am making.

U2 haven’t done a great Album since Achtung Baby.

Zooropa, you can’t count because it was an experimental album and really just for their own fun.

They tried something a bit different with Pop. But didn’t really finish it.

Then got canned by the media.

Since then they have just made bland, middle of the road stuff.

Taking the place of bands like Yes, Bread, America.

There is a certain “Horse with No Name” feel to their music where the guitars sort of go through the motions without exploring anything new. If you like that type of musac then fine but I expect more from the boys. I know they can push the boundaries of rock and roll if they get out of their comfort zone. But will they ever get out of that comfort zone again?

Meanwhile Bono keeps saying the The Edge’s guitar is on fire.

They must leave that part on the cutting room floor.

The only time it has been even smokin’ slightly over the last two albums is on All Because of You but Bono gets the extinguisher out very quickly to douse the flames and all we are left with is a damp squib.

U2 could put out any type of group of songs and move XXX amount of product but it is music that will be remembered for changing the direction of rock and roll that I am asking the boys to produce.

There are many who agree. I would say we are not a minority but probably more the people who know a bit about real music.
Cheers.

 

[vaz02]

U2 might not have done a great album since AB but thats only by u2 standards.

 

[Bottle Bono]

U2 might not have done a great album since AB but thats only by u2 standards.

Exactly and they are the only standards that we can adhere to.

 

[Screwtape2]

I don't know, I think I'd rather hear an album full of brand new songs than one less brand new song. If U2 really means it when they say they have "no reverse gears in this tank," I don't see them bringing a finished song from the past into the present. I see them as a band that lives in the present (with a few exceptions such as 'The Sweetest Thing', which was a special case). Further, if they felt 'Mercy' wasn't good enough to make an album last time, I would hope the next album isn't so bad that they now feel it is good enough to make it.

Wasn't that it didn't make the album for length reasons opposed to it not being good enough for the album?

You also have to understand that U2 sells millions of records and people who have heard Mercy are only in the thousands. That's a huge difference. Some people heard Trip Through Your Wires in 1986 but it was new to a vast majority of people when The Joshua Tree came out.

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Wasn't that it didn't make the album for length reasons opposed to it not being good enough for the album?

You also have to understand that U2 sells millions of records and people who have heard Mercy are only in the thousands. That's a huge difference. Some people heard Trip Through Your Wires in 1986 but it was new to a vast majority of people when The Joshua Tree came out.

It might have been for length reasons, yes, but if it was really too good to pass up, they would have included it. There was plenty of room on the album for it. 'Moment of Surrender' is reportedly longer than 'Mercy', for example.

I realize that most people have never even heard of 'Mercy' let alone heard it. However, that still doesn't change the fact that U2 would be digging into their past if they included it. I want to hear what U2 are up to now, not what they were up to in 2004 or 1991 or 1987.

 

[Aygo]

Guys in this forum only don't want "Mercy" on the album, because they have already heard it. What they cannot imagine is that the U2 fanbase is miles much bigger than this little online village in which we're into.

There's no problem in bringing "Mercy" for the new record.
Pop has "Velvet Dress" and "Wake Up Dead Man" that had already recorded versions in the Zooropa sessions. "Hold me Thrill me Kiss me Kill me" and "Goldeneye" could've perfectly ended on Pop too if their destiny were not soundtracks.
All That You Can't Leave Behind sessions brought "Levitate" that came from the Pop sessions and "Walk On", for instance, whice early versions come from Pop era too.
Guys here forget too that the earliest versions of "Original Of The Species", "Love+Peace Or Else" and "City Of Blinding Lights" come from (at least...) the All That You Can't Leave Behind.

Oh, I forgot to say that U2 are not the only ones to recycle songs from past sessions.

 

[Bottle Bono]

U2 could easily make a magnificent album from their outtakes from other albums. Starting with Mercy as the first single.

 

[vaz02]

Mercy would make a poor first single imo.

 

[Bottle Bono]

Okay, second single.

 

[Sleep Over Jack]

All I can say about Mercy is that it's one of only two songs from that era (the other being Fast Cars, Native Son and Xanax are techically alt. versions) that I still listen to. HTDAAB was a big let down for me, but Mercy definitely has the staying power of the band's best work. When I listen to it along with U2's more impressive songs, it seems of an equal stature, the only thing I'd change is the odd lyric but that's no big deal really.