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[U2girl]

So if they still do what they want and enjoy, why is making money the problem ? These two things may not be mutually exclusive. It's not that they switched off the experimenting to cash in, it ran out of their system and it can be heard on some Pop songs and it happened on Popmart soundchecks.

The only difference now is that they do have to work harder to promote themselves. They just adapted to the new environment of the music. Also, they do wear the burden of being "U2" so everyone always expects a big tour and a massive music shaking album.

 

[roy]

Yes. Agreed completely.



Achtung Baby sold gazillions but Zooropa didn't quite reach that level, as far as I know. So why the hell did they continue on with an even more experimental route with Passengers if they were so calculated and fearful of failure??? They weren't. They marched on doing what they wanted to do and not caring for what will sell. That is the only plausible explanation in my mind. Come 2000, they buckled.

Weren't U2 fearful that the music they recorded with Eno would fail commercially and damage the U2 'brand'...hence the fudge that is Passengers

Is this not calculated?

 

[LMP]

Weren't U2 fearful that the music they recorded with Eno would fail commercially and damage the U2 'brand'...hence the fudge that is Passengers

Is this not calculated?

That could be a factor, but I think it's because that album is a side-project. If Eno acts as another member of the band, surely it's not U2, it would have to be something else.

 

[roy]

That could be a factor, but I think it's because that album is a side-project. If Eno acts as another member of the band, surely it's not U2, it would have to be something else.

Seemingly not if you look at the writing sessions for the new U2 album.

 

[LMP]

How much writing are Eno and Lanois doing? And are they playing along with the guys?

Eno's involvement in the Passengers project was enough for them to consider it a side-project as a different band, which has to be taken into consideration, even if his and Lanois's involvement in the new sessions are unknown at this point.

 

[roy]

How much writing are Eno and Lanois doing? And are they playing along with the guys?

Eno's involvement in the Passengers project was enough for them to consider it a side-project as a different band, which has to be taken into consideration, even if his and Lanois's involvement in the new sessions are unknown at this point.

It's not completely unknown; both Eno and Lanois have presented songs to the band for consideration. They have been recognised as co-songwriters.

 

[rihannsu]

How much writing are Eno and Lanois doing? And are they playing along with the guys?

Eno's involvement in the Passengers project was enough for them to consider it a side-project as a different band, which has to be taken into consideration, even if his and Lanois's involvement in the new sessions are unknown at this point.

Passengers was more them being in Brian's band. He was pretty much in charge. The current work is equal collaboration on a songwriting level. Still no word on who will be considered producer.

Dana

 

[Zoots]

Weren't U2 fearful that the music they recorded with Eno would fail commercially and damage the U2 'brand'...hence the fudge that is Passengers

Is this not calculated?

My understanding is that they chose the moniker Passengers since Eno was so heavily involved and it wasn't strictly U2.

And by the way, they don't have to make another Achtung, Zooropa or Pop to make good music! Some people here seem to think that those who complain about the last 2 albums want AchtungZooPop Part II. I think we just want U2 to get back to making challenging music again! The last 2 albums may have had good songs but it's hard to argue that it wasn't a conservative affair overall. I just wish they would surprise us again like they have done before. Something new, something from unchartered territory... doesn't mean it has to be experimental in the way the 90s albums were! It can be refreshing in so many other ways. The lyrics need to be better too and that's just my opinion. I think the problem is U2's and especially Bono's mindset has changed since 2000. He wants to reach out to as many people as possible so I can see why he doesn't want to take any risks musically. It seems like he wants to become as well known and universally loved as Lennon and for U2 to become as well known as the Beatles. I think it's more fear of losing fan base than fear of losing money. I wish they wouldn't worry so much about "Ohh will everyone like it?" kinda thing. Just make music you think is interesting. Who cares if some don't like it?

 

[roy]

My understanding is that they chose the moniker Passengers since Eno was so heavily involved and it wasn't strictly U2.

And by the way, they don't have to make another Achtung, Zooropa or Pop to make good music! Some people here seem to think that those who complain about the last 2 albums want AchtungZooPop Part II. I think we just want U2 to get back to making challenging music again! The last 2 albums may have had good songs but it's hard to argue that it wasn't a conservative affair overall. I just wish they would surprise us again like they have done before. Something new, something from unchartered territory... doesn't mean it has to be experimental in the way the 90s albums were! It can be refreshing in so many other ways. The lyrics need to be better too and that's just my opinion. I think the problem is U2's and especially Bono's mindset has changed since 2000. He wants to reach out to as many people as possible so I can see why he doesn't want to take any risks musically. It seems like he wants to become as well known and universally loved as Lennon and for U2 to become as well known as the Beatles. I think it's more fear of losing fan base than fear of losing money. I wish they wouldn't worry so much about "Ohh will everyone like it?" kinda thing. Just make music you think is interesting. Who cares if some don't like it?

Then you'll be happy with their current deaprture? given that Adam has stated that they don't want to over-cook songs.

 

[Zoots]

Then you'll be happy with their current deaprture? given that Adam has stated that they don't want to over-cook songs.

Well... I'll believe it when I hear it! Judging strictly by the last couple of songs... a cover of Instant Karma and their beatlesque and universally appealing Window In The Skies, I don't expect any kind of departure. But maybe they'll surprise us. I don't want to be pessimistic about it but I don't want to be over enthusiastic about it either only to get disappointed later.

 

[bram]

The new album is a completely separate project from Windows and Instant Karma. And the reason Windows was released in a best of was precisely because it doesn't fit into their new direction(s). This seems quite apparent. Therefore, the sound of Windows is one sound we most likely will not hear at all on the next album.

 

[LMP]

Passengers was more them being in Brian's band. He was pretty much in charge. The current work is equal collaboration on a songwriting level. Still no word on who will be considered producer.

Dana

That's what I thought, thanks.

 

[catlhere]

I think it's more fear of losing fan base than fear of losing money. I wish they wouldn't worry so much about "Ohh will everyone like it?" kinda thing. Just make music you think is interesting. Who cares if some don't like it?

Exactly, so if the next album is in the same vein as ATYCLB and Bomb because it's interesting to them, then who cares if some don't like that, right?

 

[U2girl]

This forum will care enough to shred the next album to pieces if it sounds anything like ATYCLB or Bomb. Even if it's truly what the band is interested in. As for them not caring about who likes their music, that never happened. That is the reality of their size and their status.

The problem is some people want the things from U2 they liked when they first got in the band. But I think the band has to cater to their own desires first. If that is what appeals to you too, great. If not, there's plenty of other U2 music to enjoy. I'm curious to see how Eno and Lanois will contribute to this album, they did give some sytnh or guitar parts but I don't think they were ever considered songwriting equals to the band like now.

It's not that some are against any experimenting, it's that the more they experiment, the quality of the songs goes down. And this should be the main focus, to me (and yes, that includes Bono's writing). Even now, what are the most talked about songs from the 90's ? One, Stay, SATS, Gone, Please...all of them pretty tame compared to some of the things going on their respective album. But, they're arguably the best material on the albums.
If they can make that great mix of having quality songs AND having a running theme and the songs working for something greater like AB or JT, things should be fine.

 

[Zoots]

Exactly, so if the next album is in the same vein as ATYCLB and Bomb because it's interesting to them, then who cares if some don't like that, right?

Haha well played but I don't think they did it because that type of music was interesting to them. I think they did it to win more fans. But we can never tell for sure anyway so this is a silly argument.

 

[Zoots]

It's not that some are against any experimenting, it's that the more they experiment, the quality of the songs goes down. And this should be the main focus, to me (and yes, that includes Bono's writing). Even now, what are the most talked about songs from the 90's ? One, Stay, SATS, Gone, Please...all of them pretty tame compared to some of the things going on their respective album. But, they're arguably the best material on the albums.

I think that there is where we disagree. I like Miami, Mofo, Discotheque, DYFL and Velvet Dress as much as SATS, Gone and Please. I like Numb and Lemon as much as Stay... and Fly, Until, LIB, EBTTRT etc. almost as much as One. I'd like to see a happy balance of songs and open minded experimentation.

 

[rihannsu]

To me Bomb was an album that was at heart a summary of band's entire career. They talked about going back and listening to the music that got them into the band in the first place. I think that is why for them it connected so strongly to Boy. Everything they learned throughout their career went into those songs even though some of it is very subtle, but that album would not have been made without the experimentation that went before. There is nothing wrong with stopping and taking the time to reflect on what you have learned in your life and to me that is what Bomb is and therefore it doesn't need to be experimental in it's own right. When they started writing the songs for Bomb perhaps as early as 2002, they had been together as a band for 25+ years. I am counting from their formation in 76 not the first album. Bono was doing the interviews with Assayas that would become Bono in Conversation. He has lost his father as well and was looking back trying to deal with that. It makes sense that the album would encapsulate their career to date. Just as for me WITS sort of encapsulates Bono's humanitarian work to date, looking back in wonder at what our love has done. But they've wrapped up all the navel gazing now with the U2 by U2 book and the rerelease of some of the older concerts on DVD and I think now they are looking forward again.

Also, they have never really stopped experimenting they just did more of it outside U2. They have always used outside projects as ways to experiment with things and all of the nineties output actually started with outside experiments, they just chose to bring it more strongly into the U2 work because they were deliberately trying to shake up their image and rock music in general. As for Pop, they don't regret doing it so much as they regret that they failed to communicate it as well as they did other ideas. But that was really mostly in the US. Even as much as Larry talks about hating Passengers, he says he doesn't regret doing it but he just thought it was self-indulgent and probably shouldn't have been released.

Anyway, I think the approach they are taking now with not thinking in terms of album project yet but just letting the music develop is experimental for them because they have always started imposing direction on the music fairly early in the album process which in turn limits the creativity. They tried to break this with Pop and had stuff going in lots of directions but they let themselves be trapped by deadlines and distracted by tour design and didn't focus on the music enough to finish it to their satisfaction. I kind of like the idea of them just making music for a while without trying to corral it into any particular shape and then looking at what they have at a later date. This also might allow Bono to develop each song lyrically without thinking in terms of a specific lyrical direction. Plus Bono and Edge have been doing other projects which give them oportunity to experiment, like the Spiderman musical. For me as long as the band are happy with what they are doing that is the important thing. I actually can't think of a single U2 song over their career that I would want them not to have written even though I may not listen to it much. But since I routinely cycle through the entire catalogue and rarely skip anything I listen to quite a few.

Dana

 

[Zoots]

For me as long as the band are happy with what they are doing that is the important thing.

Agreed. Good post!

 

[U2girl]

I think that there is where we disagree. I like Miami, Mofo, Discotheque, DYFL and Velvet Dress as much as SATS, Gone and Please. I like Numb and Lemon as much as Stay... and Fly, Until, LIB, EBTTRT etc. almost as much as One. I'd like to see a happy balance of songs and open minded experimentation.

It seems we just may get that - see the Steve Averill related news.

Well, there are 90's songs I like aside the ones I mentioned, it's just that those seemed to have survived the years the best, they get talked about the most now.

 

[shart1780]

This forum will care enough to shred the next album to pieces if it sounds anything like ATYCLB or Bomb. Even if it's truly what the band is interested in.

Well, Nickleback and Avril Lavigne probably like their own music too. It's still sucks ass. I'm not saying U2's last two albums suck, but they certainly weren't up to the standards they set with prior albums. Just because U2 likes something doesn't mean I have to.

I mean heck, Bono thinks WITS is one of their best songs. Is that scary or what?

 

[U2girl]

Nickelback and Avril Lavigne aren't exactly in U2's league.

Perhaps the last two album aren't up to your own personal U2 standards ? Just a thought. I mean, they made - and obviously stand by - them, so I don't think they're outside the band's own standards. Of course you don't have to like what they like, but you can acknowledge them doing what they like.

WITS - Bono hype, nothing more. I know what he meant by the "eternal song", they were really trying to get that Beatlesque, classic pop vibe to it.

 

[schnumi]

Like said they should do what they like, and i have enjoyed ATYCLB and HTDAAB very much.

But for me personally i just feel they lost that bit of attitude which they had in the 90's. Maybe im wrong but i just have that feeling.