Gut Feeling about NLOTH: Semi-forced Cohesion

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All of this conjecture and hearsay comes down to one main point of consideration:

What is your idea of cohesion? If one mood, one theme and one particular sound is your idea of cohesion then this album may well feel a little disjointed to you. However, if you (like me) feel that cohesion comes from how the album leads you into certain sections, moods, themes etc then this album will feel extremely cohesive to you.

What I mean by that is an album can feel like a journey, or it can feel like a whole 'piece'. This album to me feels like an emotional trip, leading you from one mood to the next, as opposed to just jumping around from sound to sound & mood to mood. It starts of very atmospheric, soulful yet subdued and claustrophobic in it's production values. However, it then breaks open in 'Crazy Tonight' and the rush you feel from such a beautiful, straightforward hook is amplified because you've had to work for it so hard with the first half of the album. Then it just hand the hooks to you on a platter for a couple of songs - this is enjoyable and easy - it is important to note, these songs (SUC, cRAZY tONIGHT) are not bad songs. Yes, they are poppy songs, but this is welcome and almost euphoric next to the first half. I dislike HTDAAB and some of ATYCLB so trust mje when I say, these are good pop songs. Reviews will tell you otherwise but these are glorious songs that bring a bit of joy to the album, a bit of that Beautiful Day-esque pump your fists in the air.

Then it slows back down and you feel yourself slipping back 'into the sound'. Like you have reached the middle point of the horizon, now you are slipping back into the grey.

It's cohesive in the sense that it takes you on the journey by the hand and all you can do is let it and be completely submerged.

Whether or not it is indeed a classic remains to be seen. Only time will tell, it is definately close though.

Walt, every time you post, I :drool::drool::drool:
 
according to the creator of this thread, there is no logic in what you just pointed out and what I did earlier in the thread.

I love when people start talking about logic regarding a thread about "gut feelings" .....just about as ridiculous as you can get.



You're getting tired of it because what we are saying is true. The thread is weak and the topic has been discussed at great lengths over and over again in multiple threads.

Again, I wouldn't even be wasting my time responding to your meaningless posts if it weren't for your initial snide and unnecessary attack in the first place.

I'll look forward to your next great thread: "Gut Feeling about NLOTH leak"

:down:


YOU are weak. I have asked you a few times to PUT UP OR SHUT UP. PROVE WITH FACTS THAT THIS EXACT TOPIC HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN MULTIPLE THREADS (the basis of your attacks) OR *SHUT UP*
 
I once listened to Achtung Baby while driving alone in the middle of the night through NZ's fairly desolate back country.
I'd just read Bill Flanagan's book, and listened to the album right the way through, no interuptions.

It was like watching trainspotting, only the ending of AB is far grimmer, certainly a tragedy.

If that's what you mean by cohesion, my god do I want it. To me JT didn't really have it - it was a collection of scenes, not a flowing narrative.

But then I want great songs too.

But to stay on this thread's topic, yep I see what you're getting at and yes, 'cohesion' is important in my opinion.

Whether this album has it, fucked if I know.

And can i just say, there are some really good writers on here! Such a pleasure to read such deep thoughts so well articulated! :wave:
 
I once listened to Achtung Baby while driving alone in the middle of the night through NZ's fairly desolate back country.
I'd just read Bill Flanagan's book, and listened to the album right the way through, no interuptions.

It was like watching trainspotting, only the ending of AB is far grimmer, certainly a tragedy.

If that's what you mean by cohesion, my god do I want it. To me JT didn't really have it - it was a collection of scenes, not a flowing narrative.

But then I want great songs too.

But to stay on this thread's topic, yep I see what you're getting at and yes, 'cohesion' is important in my opinion.

Whether this album has it, fucked if I know.

And can i just say, there are some really good writers on here! Such a pleasure to read such deep thoughts so well articulated! :wave:

This is a great way to put it! "A flowing narrative as opposed to a collection of scenes."
 
I guess the other question is - everyone's got their top 5 albums, and for me it's AB, OK Computer, Astral Weeks, James' Laid, and probably JT.

What's the likelihood that NLOTH replaces any of those albums for me? Each of those five for me has a complete front-to-back cohesion where any of the songs are immediately recognizable and frameable. And that, I think, creates a lasting work of art.

So perhaps NLOTH is the album U2 always wanted to make, but my guess is that it's the album they always wanted to make ... in the iPod era.
 
I once listened to Achtung Baby while driving alone in the middle of the night through NZ's fairly desolate back country.
I'd just read Bill Flanagan's book, and listened to the album right the way through, no interuptions.

It was like watching trainspotting, only the ending of AB is far grimmer, certainly a tragedy.

If that's what you mean by cohesion, my god do I want it. To me JT didn't really have it - it was a collection of scenes, not a flowing narrative.

But then I want great songs too.

But to stay on this thread's topic, yep I see what you're getting at and yes, 'cohesion' is important in my opinion.

Whether this album has it, fucked if I know.

And can i just say, there are some really good writers on here! Such a pleasure to read such deep thoughts so well articulated! :wave:

See to me AB is NOT a flowing narrative, in fact I can't think of a U2 album that I would consider a flowing narrative, except maybe Pop(but that's a stretch). I think AB and JT are cohesive because of mood and theme. To me in order to get a true narrative lyrically you would have to almost consciously do so, and that can be extremely limiting.
 
I think from what I have read about the different characters they are going for non-cohesive. If they wanted to force cohesiveness they would have gone full throttle with a concept album but think Bono even said they could only take that so far and at the end of the day they are a band from the punk rock era they wanted to mix that into the album...or something to that effect..
 
Well, looks like I was right about the forced cohesion.

Someone owes me an apology...

Some of these songs just do not belong on the album.

Personally, I feel (for certain) that NLOTH, MOS, Breathe, COL, Unknown Caller all sound like the belong on this album and sound fresh. There are a couple of others that I am not so sure about but *might* work.

I want to say Fez but it sounds like a Zooropa song that goes nowhere and to me is a retread of that ground (even though half-witted reviewers are stating it is new territory.) Plus if I say Fez belongs that I might have to include GOYB and I really don't think it fits well.

As an example, Magnificent is a good (maybe great) song and it is awesome that they can still conjure up this kind of U2 magic. However, it is old ground for U2 (no matter how they try to produce it) and does not sound right.

I sincerely wish they had went all the way in the NLOTH direction and did not feel the need to play it safe by throwing some of songs that cover familiar territory on the album.

That said, this is an amazingly strong collection of songs and one of the bravest things I have heard a band at this age do. Much of this is adventurous sonically with complex and less obvious song structures.

That truly is phenomenal at this stage of the game. I just wish they went all the way with it....

Oh, and by the way, I don't "get" WAS... To me it is like Peace on Earth but with Eno production trying to make it sound like it fits no this album. Plus the song does nothing for me. Am I missing something?
 
If you think there is forced cohesion on this album, then maybe yes you are missing something.

:wink: :|

But that's okay, everyone hears things differently.

You read that wrong. I don't understand what is great or even decent about WAS.

There is no opinion involved that there is forced cohesion on this album. It is very evident and there can be no confusion about that.

Even Edge has said that they (grossly paraphrasing) pulled from their bags of tricks over the years.

I would vastly prefer songs like the songs I mentioned where it feels like at least some fresh ground is being explored...
 
I don't know, it sounds to me like you had already established that the album would be "forced cohesion." IMO, the songs flow incredibly well together (though the middle section may leave a bit to be desired) and I cannot imagine the record any other way.

And I don't necessarily believe that, as an album goes, groundbreaking/ experimental = quality. For example, I think ATYCLB is a better record than POP. Sure, POP had some interesting tracks and, overall, some very stellar material... but there's something about that record that felt "forced" to me. ATYCLB, on the other hand, felt very genuine (which is a HUGE complaint I have with HTDAAB... the insincerity of it). I suppose it just comes down to personal discernment (which I think is something we can all agree on).

As for "White as Snow" ...I love it (surprise surprise, huh? I seem to be humping every facet of NLOTH I get the chance to :p). It's definitely above the rather trite "Peace on Earth," IMO. Mainly I love the atmosphere... it has a certain "cinematic" accent (which also seems to permeate throughout the record), the trumpets (??) that come in halfway through (as opposed to a gradual build-up that U2 has recently tended to over-rely on) are a really nice touch, as well as the lyrics (also significantly better than POE). Kind of hard to describe *why* one likes something to one who doesn't... especially with music. If a song doesn't resonate with someone, there's no use in trying to convince them otherwise.

I gotta say, I expected this record to fall somewhere between HTDAAB and R&H... U2 definitely surprised me.
 
:lol: Laughable...

This is the most cohesive album since AB and would probably beat AB if Boots had been removed...

Wow. I could write an entire essay disproving that but it is much easier to just say how untrue that statement is.

You must know that deep down.

ATYCLB is more cohesive. So is Zooropa.

AB? Not by a mile.
 
Wow. I could write an entire essay disproving that but it is much easier to just say how untrue that statement is.

You must know that deep down.

ATYCLB is more cohesive. So is Zooropa.

AB? Not by a mile.


ATYCLB is pretty cohesive, I'll give you that. It doesn't lose much from song to song as it does sometimes within a song, if that makes sense. For example the "when hip hop drove the big cars" line, it didn't fit in the song and so it distracts going into the next song, the same as parts of New York.

Zooropa is a great album but it almost has too many themes going on, none of which are consistant throughout, some songs are commentary on technology and pop culture, and others a spiritural journey. But you have songs like Lemon that are two songs in one that never really fit together for me, do you want to sing about your mom or society? Somedays has neither that much of the experimentation or spiritural journey. First time and Stay are both beautiful but don't exactly fit perfectly in the mix, and then Wanderer is the song that is truly the wanderer struggling to find it's way in the album.

Pop and Bomb are just collections of songs, which there is nothing wrong with that, but that's all they are, Zooropa comes dangerously close to that.

I honestly don't think U2 have made the perfect cohesive album, but they get close from time to time. Boy, JT, and AB are the closest they get. And I would say UF, War, Zooropa, ATYCLB, and Line come close but miss with a song or two; the rest are just collections.
 
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