Daniel Lanois quote in EW

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No.

I was following the point that doctorgonzo made, which was that over time, the lyrical quality has declined somewhat.

I said I didn't buy that 100%, but that the weak lyrics have become a bit more frequent since 2000. (though again, plenty of gems like MOS, WAS, E Storm, etc)

I used UC as an example.

It may not be the worst lyric ever, but in context with the ones I mentioned?


Yes, but you are still comparing what you feel is the worst of this era with what you think are some of the best of previous eras I think. Unless you mean you just don't think there were any bad lyrics previously. As you said there are gems this era too, which would make better comparisons. If you must make a list like you did, you should put UC on a list with those from past eras which you don't think were "great lyrically", and then compare and see if this era he truly has gone downhill in lyric writing.

It's not a big deal really, I'm not trying to argue, everyone has their opinions, but your method of proving your point doesn't make sense to me is all.
 
Yes, but you are still comparing what you feel is the worst of this era with what you think are some of the best of previous eras I think. Unless you mean you just don't think there were any bad lyrics previously. As you said there are gems this era too, which would make better comparisons. If you must make a list like you did, you should put UC on a list with those from past eras which you don't think were "great lyrically", and then compare and see if this era he truly has gone downhill in lyric writing.

It's not a big deal really, I'm not trying to argue, everyone has their opinions, but your method of proving your point doesn't make sense to me is all.

LOL!!

I'm not trying to prove a point or argue or anything like that!

Just followed what doctorgonzo was saying, let him defend that method you speak of.

I even said I didn't buy it 100% by any means.

I have no doubt he had some weaker lyrics in the 80s and 90s, just don't feel that is relevant to the discussion we are having about UC.

The sample was completely random, first songs that came to mind that I thought were great lyrics.

I guess my point is that regardless of the era a given lyrical gem is from, UC stands out as not up to snuff. IMHO. Even look at MOS and UC together.

Thats a perfectly fair line of reasoning, that I don't think UC stands up to consistently great lyrics from before.

Its just as fair as making the comparison you suggest w/strong and weak lyrics from all eras. One is just more detailed than the other.

But this discussion is kind of pointless anyway:lol:

UC is not the worst song U2 has ever written nor is NLOTH their weakest album, far from it, I think.

It just happened to mellow on me after a couple listens and do nothing for me live.
 
This should have been a line in Some Days are Better Than Others.... :applaud:
Wait...since the latter album hadn't been written yet, wouldn't this cause a paradox in the space-time continuum, possibly dooming all life in the universe?
Still a good line, though.
 
I loves me some Unknown Caller, but I can definitely see how it could rub some people the wrong way. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Probably the worst song this side of Pete the Chop. I've tried and tried to "get it" but never did (although Edge's solo is brilliant).
 
Personally - I disagree with both Lanois and Lillywhite. What hurt the NLOTH was not the single vs. no single debate - it was the lyrics. It's also what killed Pop.

Without listening to a sound - pull out the lyrics of Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby and look at the lyrics of POP and NLOTH. We go from "your free to fly the crimson sky" with the multiple meanings (sheltered from God's judgement by Jesus' blood being one) to "I'm not going to buy just anyone's Cockatoo".

U2 is best when they are abstract and sing about universal topics. Great lyrics can lift a mediocre song. Horrible lyrics can destroy a great song. I would love "Get on Your Boots" if it didn't say "Get on Your Boots" and "I gotta submarine - you got gasoline". I would also love Crazy Tonight if it didn't have lines like "Everybody needs to cry or needs to spit, every beauty needs to go out with an idiot."

The only songs on NLOTH that don't make me wince and really hit the lyrical mark are NLOTH and Magnificent. Every other song has some lyrical wrench thrown into it: "at the ATM machine", "reboot yourself", "Stop helping God across the road like a little old lady", "Napoleon is in high heels", "Satan loves a bomb scare","shitty world sometimes produces a rose".

Again, I love most of the album's music. But Bono needs to rethink his lyrics on the next album and remember what connected to him with so many between 1987 and 1991. I still can't get over "Freedom has a scent - like the top of a newborn baby's head" - even forgettable lyrics are better than ones that actually ruin otherwise great songs.
 
Wait...since the latter album hadn't been written yet, wouldn't this cause a paradox in the space-time continuum, possibly dooming all life in the universe?

Is this a Ballard reference I spy? :wink::hmm:
 
Personally - I disagree with both Lanois and Lillywhite. What hurt the NLOTH was not the single vs. no single debate - it was the lyrics. It's also what killed Pop.

Without listening to a sound - pull out the lyrics of Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby and look at the lyrics of POP and NLOTH. We go from "your free to fly the crimson sky" with the multiple meanings (sheltered from God's judgement by Jesus' blood being one) to "I'm not going to buy just anyone's Cockatoo".

U2 is best when they are abstract and sing about universal topics. Great lyrics can lift a mediocre song. Horrible lyrics can destroy a great song. I would love "Get on Your Boots" if it didn't say "Get on Your Boots" and "I gotta submarine - you got gasoline". I would also love Crazy Tonight if it didn't have lines like "Everybody needs to cry or needs to spit, every beauty needs to go out with an idiot."

The only songs on NLOTH that don't make me wince and really hit the lyrical mark are NLOTH and Magnificent. Every other song has some lyrical wrench thrown into it: "at the ATM machine", "reboot yourself", "Stop helping God across the road like a little old lady", "Napoleon is in high heels", "Satan loves a bomb scare","shitty world sometimes produces a rose".

Again, I love most of the album's music. But Bono needs to rethink his lyrics on the next album and remember what connected to him with so many between 1987 and 1991. I still can't get over "Freedom has a scent - like the top of a newborn baby's head" - even forgettable lyrics are better than ones that actually ruin otherwise great songs.

The lyrics are the least of NLOTH's problems, also Pop. That said it's not as if 90's Bono didn't have bad lines...

A good single would helped, but not as much as inspiration. NLOTH is a very good album, possibly their best since AB, but for the above reason it won't be mentioned along their greatest albums: JT/AB/UF. I still think they can make something that will wedge it's way in that trinity...
 
It's safe to say that the lack of a hit single, an uneven tracklisting, and lousy lyrics are ALL weaknesses of NLOTH. Although I think Boots as the first single completely negated its potential. Swap Boots for Beautiful Day and that album would be huge.

I also think this notion of U2 being overly contrived lately is also true. Songs like Blinding Lights and Magnificent seem to have all the elements but in the end, they ring hallow and uninspired. It's U2 trying to be the world's biggest band instead of allowing it to happen organically.
 
Without listening to a sound - pull out the lyrics of Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby and look at the lyrics of POP and NLOTH. We go from "your free to fly the crimson sky" with the multiple meanings (sheltered from God's judgement by Jesus' blood being one) to "I'm not going to buy just anyone's Cockatoo".

U2 is best when they are abstract and sing about universal topics. Great lyrics can lift a mediocre song. Horrible lyrics can destroy a great song. I would love "Get on Your Boots" if it didn't say "Get on Your Boots" and "I gotta submarine - you got gasoline". I would also love Crazy Tonight if it didn't have lines like "Everybody needs to cry or needs to spit, every beauty needs to go out with an idiot."

The only songs on NLOTH that don't make me wince and really hit the lyrical mark are NLOTH and Magnificent. Every other song has some lyrical wrench thrown into it: "at the ATM machine", "reboot yourself", "Stop helping God across the road like a little old lady", "Napoleon is in high heels", "Satan loves a bomb scare","shitty world sometimes produces a rose".

Yeah, but we all like different things. Almost every one of your quotes are lines that I love. Lines that, to me, only Bono would write. While I agree that the lyrics on AB are amazing, I think that the images and ideas on Pop are much more vivid. But that's just me.

We all bring something different to a song. I remember when everone was moaning about the the "top of a newborn baby's head" line. Well, my first son was born a few weeks after Bomb came out, and I was shocked that newborn's actually have a very odd and distinct smell. And it's gone fast.
Two years later, when my second son was born, I anticipated the smell and it gave me immense joy.

I also don't think any one line can be considered "bad." That's a very simple way to look at it. Writing is not just one line, it's the accumulation of words and ideas that build up, work with, and against each other, to make one, larger point.

I mean, "Your love was a light bulb, hanging over my bed?" Duh. Sounds awful out of context. But we know that in the song it makes sense, builds on the idea of sleeplessness, and totally works.

And, man...I love the "ATM" line. Love it. Here's this guy having this crisis and he's riding around on the subway, and trying to get on with life, trying to get some cash, and he looks in that little glossy spot above the screen and sees a face staring back at him...not his own, but "a vision"...That line takes a grand, lofty, spiritual moment and rips it of all pretense and makes it something we've all experienced.
 
Yeah, but we all like different things. Almost every one of your quotes are lines that I love. Lines that, to me, only Bono would write. While I agree that the lyrics on AB are amazing, I think that the images and ideas on Pop are much more vivid. But that's just me.

We all bring something different to a song. I remember when everone was moaning about the the "top of a newborn baby's head" line. Well, my first son was born a few weeks after Bomb came out, and I was shocked that newborn's actually have a very odd and distinct smell. And it's gone fast.
Two years later, when my second son was born, I anticipated the smell and it gave me immense joy.

I also don't think any one line can be considered "bad." That's a very simple way to look at it. Writing is not just one line, it's the accumulation of words and ideas that build up, work with, and against each other, to make one, larger point.

I mean, "Your love was a light bulb, hanging over my bed?" Duh. Sounds awful out of context. But we know that in the song it makes sense, builds on the idea of sleeplessness, and totally works.

And, man...I love the "ATM" line. Love it. Here's this guy having this crisis and he's riding around on the subway, and trying to get on with life, trying to get some cash, and he looks in that little glossy spot above the screen and sees a face staring back at him...not his own, but "a vision"...That line takes a grand, lofty, spiritual moment and rips it of all pretense and makes it something we've all experienced.

Great post!!:up::up:

ATM machine line always grabbed me, especially the conviction he sings it with.

Its very, very evocative to me and is no more dated/putting a song in a specific time period and boxing it in than "you could stay and watch the adverts, lip sync to the talk show hosts......satellite television you could go anywhere." Stay is a lyric that doesn't get knocked too much around here, the exact opposite.
 
Great post!!:up::up:

ATM machine line always grabbed me, especially the conviction he sings it with.

Its very, very evocative to me and is no more dated/putting a song in a specific time period and boxing it in than "you could stay and watch the adverts, lip sync to the talk show hosts......satellite television you could go anywhere." Stay is a lyric that doesn't get knocked too much around here, the exact opposite.

How can a reference to an ATM be dated? We have been using them for 30 years now, definitely part and parcel of life now like going to the sh!tter.
 
How can a reference to an ATM be dated? We have been using them for 30 years now, definitely part and parcel of life now like going to the sh!tter.

I understand.

Wasn't my diagnosis, in fact the opposite.

It was brought up as a "lyrical wrench" and I was addressing that.

I assumed that the lyrical wrench was that tech references like re boot, ATM, etc are too specific in that person's mind.
 
I think the phrase "ATM Machine" is annoying to people because the "M" actually stands for "machine" so Bono is being sloppy, sophmoric and redundantly redundant.

I have to agree that Bono's lyrical skills are waning. The man actually wrote once that the air was heavy as a truck. That line actually made it into the finished version of a song.

Look at new Mercy vs. old Mercy for devolving lyrical prowess in action...and the wonderful chorus for EBW "I don't know if I'm that strong" that will guarantee it's place in obscurity. Come on Bono..make an effort this time around.
 
I think the phrase "ATM Machine" is annoying to people because the "M" actually stands for "machine" so Bono is being sloppy, sophmoric and redundantly redundant.

the way i see it is because a lot of people say atm machine. it's redundant, sure, but it's probably acceptable redundancy. it's basically grammar nazis and people looking for something else to pick at.

plus, where else is that thought meant to go without atm machine. if you assume he wants to keep that image, anything else would be criticised for being clunky and silly.
 
I still remember when people were transcribing lyrics and came up with...

I was speeding on the subway
through the stations of the cross
every eye looking every other way
counting down till Pentecost

and I was like...holy s$#*! Bono still has some greatness left in him. Then it turned out to be "till the pain will stop" and I was like holy s#$%...we just accidentally wrote better lyrics than Bono could on purpose!! True story...
 
I still remember when people were transcribing lyrics and came up with...

I was speeding on the subway
through the stations of the cross
every eye looking every other way
counting down till Pentecost

and I was like...holy s$#*! Bono still has some greatness left in him. Then it turned out to be "till the pain will stop" and I was like holy s#$%...we just accidentally wrote better lyrics than Bono could on purpose!! True story...
shows how subjective it is, i like it the way it is! (and not the way it turns up in the liner notes, heh).
 
It's safe to say that the lack of a hit single, an uneven tracklisting, and lousy lyrics are ALL weaknesses of NLOTH. Although I think Boots as the first single completely negated its potential. Swap Boots for Beautiful Day and that album would be huge.

I also think this notion of U2 being overly contrived lately is also true. Songs like Blinding Lights and Magnificent seem to have all the elements but in the end, they ring hallow and uninspired. It's U2 trying to be the world's biggest band instead of allowing it to happen organically.

Outside of the middle-three songs, the lyrics are very good.

And the critism of NLOTH's tracklisting (one of their best in this regard) is always interesting considering the *great* job they did with the tracklisting on the three albums released before NLOTH.

I can't remember any U2 song getting as much loving across the board as Magnificent. They tried several times to bring the vintage U2 into the future...it worked on that song.
 
I really loved NLOTH and honestly the only track I had issues with and became the skippable track was Stand Up Comedy.
 
Without listening to a sound - pull out the lyrics of Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby and look at the lyrics of POP and NLOTH. We go from "your free to fly the crimson sky" with the multiple meanings (sheltered from God's judgement by Jesus' blood being one) to "I'm not going to buy just anyone's Cockatoo".
.

But we also go from (the rather clunky, out-of-place) "A woman needs a man, like a fish needs a bicycle" on AB, to "I tied myself with wire, to let the horses roam free" on NLOTH.

There are good/bad/indifferent lyrics on all albums. And while I agree AB has probably the best lyrics Bono's ever written, NLOTH has some great ones too.
 
But we also go from (the rather clunky, out-of-place) "A woman needs a man, like a fish needs a bicycle" on AB, to "I tied myself with wire, to let the horses roam free" on NLOTH.

There are good/bad/indifferent lyrics on all albums. And while I agree AB has probably the best lyrics Bono's ever written, NLOTH has some great ones too.

Yeah, but again, a line out of context it pointless. In TTTYAATW Bono says "I dreamed that I saw Dali, with a supermarket trolley..." bringing up surrealism. The fish on the bicycle is a true surreal image, so it makes total sense in context, and it's funny, and it points out how useless the singer is to the woman he's singing about. I also think that I had heard that phrase before AB came out.
 
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