Danger Mouse being secretive about U2 production...

[ozeeko]

but anyone who says he's resting on his laurels doesn't understand music

For someone who hates generalizations, you sure do come up with your own occasionally.

I guess I'll stop pursuing music now. (off to burn my demos, lyrics, dreams...)

 

[BVS]

For someone who hates generalizations, you sure do come up with your own occasionally.

I guess I'll stop pursuing music now. (off to burn my demos, lyrics, dreams...)

Don't give up your dreams, there are plenty in the business that don't understand music...

I just don't think anyone who understood music could honestly make such a statement. There are dozens of examples that I've shown of Edge doing things he hadn't done in the past, you may not see them as innovative or like them and that's fine but to say he's resting on his laurels is incorrect. Sorry

 

[ozeeko]

Don't give up your dreams, there are plenty in the business that don't understand music...

Too late...I'm speaking to you from beyond the grave now...

I just don't think anyone who understood music could honestly make such a statement. There are dozens of examples that I've shown of Edge doing things he hadn't done in the past, you may not see them as innovative or like them and that's fine but to say he's resting on his laurels is incorrect. Sorry

Well, this is why I just kept it short and sweet, because if we're getting into technicalities then it will lead to 3 or more pages of arguing, and to be honest I'm not really in the mood. You'll have to seduce me.

Anyway, here's a taster:

Edge just doesn't have many "holy shit" moments these days. By "holy shit" moment, I mean a moment where I hear Edge play something whacked and I go "holy shit, I can't believe he just made that sound!". There are moments like that on every U2 album I own, and ever since BOMB those moments are scarcely heard. My fave tracks on NLOTH have really nothing to do with Edge, even on MOS its more to do with Adam and Eno and Larry and Bono, and Edge is just somewhere in the background. When he does take the center stage, it's either on Lillywhitish anthems or cockrockers. The "newer and better" sounding material is great but I don't think Edge really adds much to them.

In fact, the only "holy shit" moment I hear on MOS is what Edge plays at the very end of MOS, the descending arpegios or whatever you call it (remember i don't understand). And at the beginning of F-BB he plays some cool stuff, but once the song gets going he just kinda lets Eno take the spotlight.

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

To BVS:

AHA thank you for pointing that out to me, i don't remember where i confused being innovative and exploring new sounds exactly, but i apologise if i used them interchangeably.
Now that we have that cleared up, i suppose i can agree that he's innovative in terms of using new influences, not sounding the same on every album etc...
I guess i can also agree that it's false to say Edge hasn't made any new sounds at all during the 00's - i can think of a couple, such as the solo for WILATW, or the strings for Cedars possibly.

I see now that i've confused innovation with genuine originality, because you had been pointing out how the Edge has changed his guitar sound so much, and that even if those sounds aren't necessarily new, they are innovative for him personally. To make it more confusing to me, while i miss Edge coming up with entirely new sounds like on Mofo and Lemon, i would also be ok with u2 following genres i like (e.g. dance, electronica) even if the sounds Edge uses aren't entirely new. Therefore, i suppose my preference for complete originality and personal innovation is blurred, and i can't separate the two because in a way i'd like both.

However, i'd still like to re-iterate my preferences: Firstly, although he has made some entirely new sounds lately, they are NOWHERE near as predominant as on the 90's albums, which i miss. I wish they'd release an album with songs filled with crazy new noises, and release singles that don't rely on the 'chime' effect like Magnificent and Crazy tonight, but rather have Edge sounds that make people go "Huh? Is this u2??"
Secondly, whilst i agree using the led-zep riff on SUC and other noises is innovative for u2 if not completely original, it still leaves me personally disappointed, but that's just my double standard, because i'd love to hear them do a dance record, although i suppose i could say a rock band blending with dance music could be more original than a rock band blending with... classic rock (as with Vertigo, SUC etc).

I'll answer your last point by stating i can't think of one, so yeah, i'd have to agree Edge has been innovative in many ways in the 00's... but only in terms of u2. I'd like him to introduce more completely original guitar noises like he had done in the 90's, and i stand by my point that he's stuck to the 'chime' trademark even if many 00's u2 songs don't. That previous statement is purely my opinion, but to me using the chime on beautiful day, COBL, Magnificent and CT (i.e. lots of the lead singles, the stuff that represent the band on the radio and more importantly, the stuff they tend to play live off the album on subsequent tours), is being too reliant on it.

I'll conclude by saying i agree pretty much with what you said about Edge being innovative in terms of changing his own guitar sound (even if the sound isn't new outside u2), and also to say thanks for taking the time to reply to my posts in depth

 

[Gonna Run 2 U]

Edge was completely absent on NLOTH in my opinion, theres like a hey edge there u are moment in Magnificent then the verse starts and he disappears again, whoops thought that was him I was even more aggravated watching "it might get loud" and hes playing the GOYB's riff over, and over, and over again.......Pony up edge!

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

Too late...I'm speaking to you from beyond the grave now...



Well, this is why I just kept it short and sweet, because if we're getting into technicalities then it will lead to 3 or more pages of arguing, and to be honest I'm not really in the mood. You'll have to seduce me.

Anyway, here's a taster:

Edge just doesn't have many "holy shit" moments these days. By "holy shit" moment, I mean a moment where I hear Edge play something whacked and I go "holy shit, I can't believe he just made that sound!". There are moments like that on every U2 album I own, and ever since BOMB those moments are scarcely heard. My fave tracks on NLOTH have really nothing to do with Edge, even on MOS its more to do with Adam and Eno and Larry and Bono, and Edge is just somewhere in the background. When he does take the center stage, it's either on Lillywhitish anthems or cockrockers. The "newer and better" sounding material is great but I don't think Edge really adds much to them.

In fact, the only "holy shit" moment I hear on MOS is what Edge plays at the very end of MOS, the descending arpegios or whatever you call it (remember i don't understand). And at the beginning of F-BB he plays some cool stuff, but once the song gets going he just kinda lets Eno take the spotlight.

Completely agree with everything you said here
Edge isn't resting on his laurels as evidenced by his transition from Beautiful Day to SUC, but that transition is hardly one that introduces crazy-assed new sounds that people (like me) who love MOFO or Mysterious ways could get excited about.
I also have to agree about Edge's presence on their latest album - i wouldn't go so far as to say he wasn't pulling his weight (because as far as i know he could have written all the lyrics, chords etc), but i would say purely in terms of guitar work, he wasn't really at the forefront that much in terms of melodies, riffs and hooks, which is a shame considering how amazing his guitar riffs can be.
I hope the next album has more dynamic and creative guitar work (although this is all just my opinion).

 

[ndmaxfield]

Edge just doesn't have many "holy shit" moments these days.

I agree insofar as albums are concerned. However, I think it's fair to say that Edge's live arrangements are pretty awesome. The ones I have in mind are COBL and BD, since those are tour regulars. He takes the album versions of those songs to a whole other level, live, in my opinion.

 

[Registered Dude]

I think Edge is devoting more of his time to songwriting these days..

in past U2 eras, they relied more on songwriting by accident, through jamming, messing about.. Edge's focus was the guitar.. using it to achieve something new sonically. from this improvisation came what we recognize as great U2 songs of yore.. The Fly, SBS, Streets, etc..

I believe the last 10 years has seen the band -- particularily the Edge -- focus more on writing "songs".. consequently I think he is approaching his playing from a different place.. he's developing song structures on the instrument, devoting his time to achieving an end result, rather than exploring sonics the way he used to.

that said, I think he's now a much better guitar player, technically.

 

[ozeeko]

If we're judging by NLOTH then I wouldn't say Edge is devoting more time to songwriting, since nearly every song was cowritten by Eno and Lanois (and let's face it, some of the song ideas were instigated by Eno...MOS, COL). Collaboration isn't a bad thing, however, and I shudder to think what would've happened on NLOTH without the producers' help.

 

[Inner El Guapo]

I think Edge is devoting more of his time to songwriting these days..

in past U2 eras, they relied more on songwriting by accident, through jamming, messing about.. Edge's focus was the guitar.. using it to achieve something new sonically. from this improvisation came what we recognize as great U2 songs of yore.. The Fly, SBS, Streets, etc..

I believe the last 10 years has seen the band -- particularily the Edge -- focus more on writing "songs".. consequently I think he is approaching his playing from a different place.. he's developing song structures on the instrument, devoting his time to achieving an end result, rather than exploring sonics the way he used to.

that said, I think he's now a much better guitar player, technically.

Absolutely agree.

 

[powerhour24]

Agreed with Registered Dude, Ozeeko you have no idea where the ideas came from on NLOTH, and COL is much more in line with Lanois than Eno. MOS came from him in what way? The most impacting element is Bono's lyric and vocal delivery, followed by Edge, from what I have read on its composition, Eno set the odd drum machine by mistake and the rest was a group jam. It seems like you're reaching to give Edge and the boys no credit for the writing. Personally I wouldn't say it was am over-reliance on the producers for ideas so much as being really comfortable and receptive with old friends. The atmosphere that inspired NLOTH was one of collaboration, making it different from rest of their work together.

 

[ozeeko]

Agreed with Registered Dude, Ozeeko you have no idea where the ideas came from on NLOTH, and COL is much more in line with Lanois than Eno. MOS came from him in what way? The most impacting element is Bono's lyric and vocal delivery, followed by Edge, from what I have read on its composition, Eno set the odd drum machine by mistake and the rest was a group jam. It seems like you're reaching to give Edge and the boys no credit for the writing. Personally I wouldn't say it was am over-reliance on the producers for ideas so much as being really comfortable and receptive with old friends. The atmosphere that inspired NLOTH was one of collaboration, making it different from rest of their work together.

You don't have any idea either. The End.

 

[U2387]

You don't have any idea either. The End.

No but he does have all of past U2 history on his side.

 

[ozeeko]

I don't care.

 

[Muldfeld]

Not that you'll answer me, but really what does this even mean?

It means he's trying to make the kinds of music heard on mainstream media. He's not trying to be different and original, but recapture some sound others have done many times before -- that appeals to people's sense of nostalgia about what rock music should sound like. Despite all of U2's protests that NLOTH was too avant garde for the public or that U2 has been pushing things experimentally in the last 10 years, the band really hasn't.

U2 is caught up in a delusional sense of itself. The band members can't admit how much they've sold out and try to reassure themselves by constantly putting out propaganda about how they're still the same in trying to innovate mainstream music. But, really, the band is more a hindrance to other bands who are really trying to refresh the mainstream by hogging up so much media space; what U2 did in using the BBC so thoroughly to promote NLOTH was pretty unethical. Other, better bands deserve a chance to reach the public, too.

I fear The Edge and Bono are too addicted to popularity and money to pull another "Achtung Baby". I hope they aren't, but has anyone heard some of those Spider Man musical clips? It's pretty bad stuff, when you hear it more than once. This is not the kind of music that made U2 the legend it is.

 

[Muldfeld]

I don't care.

"Don't let the bastards grind you down", bub.

 

[U2387]

I don't care.

You don't have to.

We are telling you: U2 does not work the way that you are suggesting, they never have, never will. Nothing to dispute.

You are saying everything good or new or interesting couldn't possibly have been the idea of the same 4 people who pioneered a sound, had more evolutions than almost any other act in history, and wrote songs like Streets and The Fly.

All of a sudden to you people 2000 hit and U2 became little kids capable of writing and performing no more than the alphabet and anything interesting just had to have come from that genius who tried to delete Streets!

That just doesn't make much sense.

 

[ozeeko]

You don't have to.

We are telling you: U2 does not work the way that you are suggesting, they never have, never will. Nothing to dispute.

You are saying everything good or new or interesting couldn't possibly have been the idea of the same 4 people who pioneered a sound, had more evolutions than almost any other act in history, and wrote songs like Streets and The Fly.

All of a sudden to you people 2000 hit and U2 became little kids capable of writing and performing no more than the alphabet and anything interesting just had to have come from that genius who tried to delete Streets!

That just doesn't make much sense.

All I said was that on NLOTH Edge seemed to take a backseat when it came to more interesting (to me) material. I said nothing about Bono, Larry or Adam.

 

[ndmaxfield]

It means he's trying to make the kinds of music heard on mainstream media. He's not trying to be different and original, but recapture some sound others have done many times before -- that appeals to people's sense of nostalgia about what rock music should sound like. Despite all of U2's protests that NLOTH was too avant garde for the public or that U2 has been pushing things experimentally in the last 10 years, the band really hasn't.

U2 is caught up in a delusional sense of itself. The band members can't admit how much they've sold out and try to reassure themselves by constantly putting out propaganda about how they're still the same in trying to innovate mainstream music. But, really, the band is more a hindrance to other bands who are really trying to refresh the mainstream by hogging up so much media space; what U2 did in using the BBC so thoroughly to promote NLOTH was pretty unethical. Other, better bands deserve a chance to reach the public, too.

I fear The Edge and Bono are too addicted to popularity and money to pull another "Achtung Baby". I hope they aren't, but has anyone heard some of those Spider Man musical clips? It's pretty bad stuff, when you hear it more than once. This is not the kind of music that made U2 the legend it is.

I personally think the Edge is bored with being in a band. I think he wants to become the program director of an art museum and/or that maybe he wants to go hide away and write novels under a pen name (maybe he'll call himself Dirk Marchese). I think he's looking for a promotion or a serious change of direction in his life.

 

[powerhour24]

clearly

 

[powerhour24]

You don't have to.

We are telling you: U2 does not work the way that you are suggesting, they never have, never will. Nothing to dispute.

You are saying everything good or new or interesting couldn't possibly have been the idea of the same 4 people who pioneered a sound, had more evolutions than almost any other act in history, and wrote songs like Streets and The Fly.

All of a sudden to you people 2000 hit and U2 became little kids capable of writing and performing no more than the alphabet and anything interesting just had to have come from that genius who tried to delete Streets!

That just doesn't make much sense.

 

[ozeeko]

People really take things to extremes here.

What I meant to say was "Edge has never been better. He is jizzing hot lava all over the audience through his guitar. Yum."

Better?

 

[ozeeko]

(nothing extreme about that) lol

 

[corianderstem]

People really take things to extremes here.

Oh, are you new here?



Seriously, though. So many of these arguments just make me go

 

[BVS]

It means he's trying to make the kinds of music heard on mainstream media.

Who is he trying to sound like specifically?

U2 has been pushing things experimentally in the last 10 years, the band really hasn't.

I've tried to engage with you to show you otherwise but you're never really interested in real discussion.

U2 is caught up in a delusional sense of itself. The band members can't admit how much they've sold out and try to reassure themselves by constantly putting out propaganda about how they're still the same in trying to innovate mainstream music. But, really, the band is more a hindrance to other bands who are really trying to refresh the mainstream by hogging up so much media space; what U2 did in using the BBC so thoroughly to promote NLOTH was pretty unethical. Other, better bands deserve a chance to reach the public, too.

So if they weren't on the BBC that day then another more deserving band would have reached the public that day?

I fear The Edge and Bono are too addicted to popularity and money to pull another "Achtung Baby". I hope they aren't, but has anyone heard some of those Spider Man musical clips? It's pretty bad stuff, when you hear it more than once. This is not the kind of music that made U2 the legend it is.

It's a musical, it's not U2. And you're juding it by tiny clips.

Try and enjoy life a little...

 

[U2387]

People really take things to extremes here.

What I meant to say was "Edge has never been better. He is jizzing hot lava all over the audience through his guitar. Yum."

Better?

Well, I don't think any of us are Bono, so not better.

I would agree 100% that NLOTH is not Edge's most out front album, but he does do some very interesting things. Also from what we know about how the songwriting process came together from interviews, articles, etc, there is nothing to suggest certain songs were mostly Eno or Lanois calling the shots.

I will also point out(and surely you remember this) one of the biggest and most consistent claims about Bomb here was that Edge had his volume dial pushed all the way to the right and was just trying to be all guitar hero on us. How it sounds or whether you can even make it out(ABOY live) be damned.

Larry and Adam took a major back seat and didn't do anything that stood out, save for maybe LAPOE for Larry/Adam and AMAAW for Adam.

As soon as I put in NLOTH, I remember saying "holy shit, I can hear Larry and Adam again, and I like it!"

Edge's best efforts for me(If I had to choose 3 general time periods) were the entire Boy-Octo-War era, Lovetown Tour and Achtung Baby.

 

[Galeongirl]

http://www.u2interference.com/forum...t-feel-free-to-add-195411-24.html#post7073320


Just because.

 

[subnet]

i think edge needs to wear his zootv skull cap for influence.

 

[nirniva]

i think edge needs to wear his zootv skull cap for influence.

It's lined with tinfoil so the aliens can't brainwash him into playing generic, echo-y riffs.

 

[collapse]

But, really, the band is more a hindrance to other bands who are really trying to refresh the mainstream by hogging up so much media space; what U2 did in using the BBC so thoroughly to promote NLOTH was pretty unethical. Other, better bands deserve a chance to reach the public, too.

lol wut

promoting your music is unethical?

i can think of a myriad of more unethical things than making a television appearance to promote your new record, no matter how big a band you are. are you seriously trying to say that just because U2 is well-known they no longer have the right to try to promote their music? or that they somehow with their magic Bono-powers are preventing EVERY OTHER BAND from ever doing any kind of promotion? i mean, really. U2 gets the media space because the media wants them. theyve been much quieter about their upcoming stuff this time around, so what are you even complaining about?