Arnie Acosta Mastering NLOTH?

[BVS]

Hmm, you have conveniently ignored all the plausible explanations people have given for why this would not be close-mindedness.

Like what? None of the ones I've read so far would make sense...

 

[LyricalDrug]

Like what? None of the ones I've read so far would make sense...

It's the equivalent of a doctor saying, "my specialty is pediatrics, not podiatry," or a painter who specializes in oils instead of acrylics, or an athlete who plays hockey instead of soccer. Why does the guy suddenly need to be capable of mastering every type of music? If he doesn't have the interest in cultivating the ability to master hip-hop records, then who's to pass judgment on his career choice?

 

[bram]

It's the equivalent of a doctor saying, "my specialty is pediatrics, not podiatry," or a painter who specializes in oils instead of acrylics, or an athlete who plays hockey instead of soccer. Why does the guy suddenly need to be capable of mastering every type of music? If he doesn't have the interest in cultivating the ability to master hip-hop records, then who's to pass judgment on his career choice?

Yes, I think the doctor analogy is good. If you have tuberculosis and I'm a heart surgeon, I will probably point you in the direction of an infectious disease specialist. And if I don't, the patient (or in our case, the musician client) will suffer.

 

[bram]

Actually, I would suggest that assuming the worst about Acosta is rather close-minded. This was a very short sentence from a random message board after all. We don't know the whole story.

Where's mikal with the Jump to Conclusions map?

 

[subnet]

^ i just think he doesn't like mastering rap because he doesn't like rap


you don't need a reason or a comment on why you don't want to do something



it's a personal preference and the doctor analogy actually doesn't make sense. Arnie's specialty is mastering period. He is fully qualified.


any comment about Arnie would be presumptous, so I am presuming he doesn't master rap because:

A: he might only get 1 mix, so less creative criticism from him
B: mix is already too high (loud) to treat
C: too phat a bassline


now for me personally i love deep phat basslines (ie love is blindness)

and I want deep basslines to come through on NLOTH

 

[last unicorn]

Not to turn this into a philosophical discussion, but my idea of "integrity" is that it's something positive, something a human being should aim for. "Closed-mindness" however is exactly the opposite.

 

[bram]

Not to turn this into a philosophical discussion, but my idea of "integrity" is that it's something positive, something a human being should aim for. "Closed-mindness" however is exactly the opposite.

Yes, I think Merriam-Webster would more or less agree with you.

 

[Swan269]

i wish i could choose what to work on.....sometimes i can like when i get to use colourslide or no second troy, but then i am told to use three doors down

 

[StaySafeTonight]

I don't really care- But I don't think it's the genre of rap he doesn't like- it's mastering rap. Most if not all rap I have ever listened to has been awfully mastered and is just bass all the way up with the actual rap right in the middle of the mix. It's easy to master rap (My friend who usually masters rock does rap as well) and it all comes out sounding similar. I like rap- but damn it's an easy genre to master.

 

[PowerSurge]

It's the equivalent of a doctor saying, "my specialty is pediatrics, not podiatry," or a painter who specializes in oils instead of acrylics, or an athlete who plays hockey instead of soccer. Why does the guy suddenly need to be capable of mastering every type of music? If he doesn't have the interest in cultivating the ability to master hip-hop records, then who's to pass judgment on his career choice?

great analogy.

Of course if people would investigate and discover WHY someone feels the way they do instead of jumping to a conclusion that is just as close-minded as the accusation they are making...then the truth would come out and some level of comprehension of the issue would be achieved.

Hmm, you have conveniently ignored all the plausible explanations people have given for why this would not be close-mindedness.

Am I the only one who finds that fact even slightly ironic?

 

[PowerSurge]

Yes, I think Merriam-Webster would more or less agree with you.

 

[Am I Zoo]

Boy, you guys sure know how to ruin an interesting topic. All I know is, Atomic Bomb was killed in the mastering stage, and I hope the band and record company never let that happen again. You listening, Arnie?

 

[bram]

Boy, you guys sure know how to ruin an interesting topic. All I know is, Atomic Bomb was killed in the mastering stage, and I hope the band and record company never let that happen again. You listening, Arnie?

Yeah, I'm assuming U2 will be pretty sensitive to this issue this time. They must be aware of the problem(s) on Bomb.

 

[PowerSurge]

Boy, you guys sure know how to ruin an interesting topic. ?

you're welcome

 

[Am I Zoo]

Yeah, I'm assuming U2 will be pretty sensitive to this issue this time. They must be aware of the problem(s) on Bomb.

I just find it amazing, considering the time the band puts into making these records, how careless they are on this issue. A U2 album should, without exception, be a sonic gem. I understand we're getting into record company-level decisions here, but I find it hard to believe U2 would have no say in how their records are mastered.

 

[BVS]

It's the equivalent of a doctor saying, "my specialty is pediatrics, not podiatry," or a painter who specializes in oils instead of acrylics, or an athlete who plays hockey instead of soccer. Why does the guy suddenly need to be capable of mastering every type of music? If he doesn't have the interest in cultivating the ability to master hip-hop records, then who's to pass judgment on his career choice?

The "refusal" part is what I think makes the distinction.

There would be little to no difference in mastering a NIN album and most rap albums today.

It doesn't sound like a capability or specialty issue to me...

So to me to just completely ignore a whole genre seems ignorant.

 

[BVS]

^ i just think he doesn't like mastering rap because he doesn't like rap


you don't need a reason or a comment on why you don't want to do something



it's a personal preference and the doctor analogy actually doesn't make sense. Arnie's specialty is mastering period. He is fully qualified.

Exactly, and this is why I believe it can't be called "integrity"...

 

[bram]

The "refusal" part is what I think makes the distinction.

There would be little to no difference in mastering a NIN album and most rap albums today.

It doesn't sound like a capability or specialty issue to me...

So to me to just completely ignore a whole genre seems ignorant.

You realize that the word "refusal" came from a random poster's summary of the issue?

 

[bram]

Exactly, and this is why I believe it can't be called "integrity"...

You've now retreated to petty semantics as a defense.

 

[PowerSurge]

I just find it amazing, considering the time the band puts into making these records, how careless they are on this issue. A U2 album should, without exception, be a sonic gem. I understand we're getting into record company-level decisions here, but I find it hard to believe U2 would have no say in how their records are mastered.

You would think so...but there are so many little ridiculous and obvious mistakes on almost all albums that it makes me

I was just listening to Zooropa yesterday and on the song Dirty Day when Bono sings the line: "Throw a rock in the air you're bound to hit someone guilty" there's the most obvious mixing fuck up that it made me cringe as if someone scratched their nails down a chalk board.

 

[mikal]

 

[PowerSurge]

*looks at watch*


yeah...its about that time

 

[BVS]

You realize that the word "refusal" came from a random poster's summary of the issue?

Well it came from the original forum, but yes I realize that. But honestly that's all we have, and it really doesn't take away from anything I'm saying. I'm not trying to judge Arnie, my first comment was to be taken tongue in cheek, but now I'm just debating the fact that people are fooling themselves if they call this integrity.

You've now retreated to petty semantics as a defense.

This has nothing to do with semantics. My whole point is that it has nothing to do with integrity. I don't care if you don't like rap, I don't care if you don't think it's a viable artform, I honestly don't care what his reasons are...

I just can't think of one reason for refusing to master a whole genre that could be considered 'integrity'. That's all.

 

[stealthboy]

I was just listening to Zooropa yesterday and on the song Dirty Day when Bono sings the line: "Throw a rock in the air you're bound to hit someone guilty" there's the most obvious mixing fuck up that it made me cringe as if someone scratched their nails down a chalk board.

YES, the *one* reason I'm hoping for a remastered Zooropa release someday. Probably will never happen, but that production error really bothers me on an otherwise fantastic song.

 

[bram]

Well it came from the original forum, but yes I realize that. But honestly that's all we have, and it really doesn't take away from anything I'm saying. I'm not trying to judge Arnie, my first comment was to be taken tongue in cheek, but now I'm just debating the fact that people are fooling themselves if they call this integrity.



This has nothing to do with semantics. My whole point is that it has nothing to do with integrity. I don't care if you don't like rap, I don't care if you don't think it's a viable artform, I honestly don't care what his reasons are...

I just can't think of one reason for refusing to master a whole genre that could be considered 'integrity'. That's all.

Fair enough

 

[subnet]

i find vocals on dirty day to be too loud




is this what you mean?



or like there is too much separation in the tracking of the song....?

 

[stealthboy]

i find vocals on dirty day to be too loud

is this what you mean?

On the word "throw" there is some clipping and it sounds muffled as a result.

 

[U2DMfan]

From memory (this response was about it being a mixing issue) :
That part of the song (Dirty Day) sounds like he nearly ate the microphone.
Mixing isn't going to help that out much. It's still going to sound muffled/distorted because of the way it was physically recorded. 'Peaked' out, clipping, whatever term you want to use. Zooropa, otherwise is a spectacular sounding album. The best album 'sound' IMO.

Why they didn't re-record it, well that's the kind of shit that happens when you're working fast.

As far as Acosta, he didnt seem to have enough "integrity" to fight the "loudness war". HTDAAB is an ugly sounding album precisely because of the mastering.
Chances are, if you own a new release by a major label, it's compressed and maxed out as well. So I was under the impression that those doing the work were 'forced' more or less to try and keep up with modern stereo equipment. Which of course, leaves a LOT oif subtlety to be desired. That said, the other work (albums) sounds pretty good, speaking generally as a whole.

Actual production gaffes are like the Dirty Day example. Or Last Night On Earth's click.

 

[stealthboy]

Actual production gaffes are like the Dirty Day example. Or Last Night On Earth's click.

Or New York's "stop"

 

[U2DMfan]

or like there is too much separation in the tracking of the song....?

This is an interesting issue. I can't recall any U2 song that has too much seperation in the mix (panning) from the top of my head. I actually think the mixing (from Achtung) to ATYCLB is pretty well done.

HTDAAB had some issues, especially COBL, which was mixed by Nellee Hooper. Then again, because of the mastering, what kind of sound was lost between the cracks of that ridiculous compression?

I hate the sound of most new albums but this is an old and tired argument.
I don't think there is much to be done about it.