After a year...what do you think about NLOTH?

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^ Although I have a completely different final opinion of the album, as I don't think it's their worst album, but right on par with most their albums as being consistently good, I enjoyed your song by song breakdown and agree with a lot of it, and still find what I don't agree with interesting to read anyway. :up:
 
^ Although I have a completely different final opinion of the album, as I don't think it's their worst album, but right on par with most their albums as being consistently good, I enjoyed your song by song breakdown and agree with a lot of it, and still find what I don't agree with interesting to read anyway. :up:

Thanks for understanding that I don't mean to cause any malice. If I may ask...If you had to choose, what would you say is their weakest album?

I'm not challenging your opinion, I'm just curious as to how you perceive their collection. This level of discourse is healthy when both parties agree that they share the love of the same artist's work, but their opinions simply differ on the final resonation of specific projects.
 
Achtung Tree, how do you feel about Zooropa, OS1, and Pop?

(This is a serious, not rhetorical, question.)
 
Achtung Tree, how do you feel about Zooropa, OS1, and Pop?

(This is a serious, not rhetorical, question.)

I thoroughly enjoy Zooropa. Not my absolute favorite, but its up there. There aren't any weak songs. Zooropa hits with a lot of tricks and great vocals. Babyface is a pleasant departure with great lyrics and great guitar sounds. Numb's monotony is counter-balanced by random hi-tech soundsz, scratchy guitar bursts and perhaps the best surprise of all...Edge on the vocals. Lemon is a great dance song. The beat is done right, but the vocals make this song work. Stay is one of their best vocal melodies and it doesnt adhere to verse-chorus-verse-bridge-verse-chorus-chorus-out. They do a great job on it. DGPFYCC is perfect in not taking itself seriously and is complemented by the MacPhisto character. SDABTO is an upbeat, jovial song that enjoys enumerating ironic circumstances...very enjoyable. The First Time is a great, great lyrical piece that brims with emotion -excellent. Dirty Day has to be one of their most complex, almost bitter sounding song that captivates and loosens at the end with the "days, days, days run away like horses over the hills" until fade. -outright brilliance. The Wanderer is a very enjoyable song even if it wasn't sung by bono originally. There aren't too many negatives I can think of.

The Passengers Soundtrack I haven't listened to in ages. I do remember thinking it had a very dignified collection of songs including the collaborators.

Pop through me for a loop, but I love discotechque, Staring At The Sun, IGWSHA, Gone, The Playboy Mansion and Last Night On Earth. Miami doesn't do it for me and the more relentlessly hi-tech songs lose the core mission. I felt the electricity was later reconnected on the Pop-Mart Tour with those songs that didn't initially click with most people.

This was a shorter version, obviously, than the itemized version I gave for NLOTH.

What were your impressions of the albums you mentioned?
 
What were your impressions of the albums you mentioned?

Hmm, I've gotten the impression that people who like albums such as Zooropa/OS1/Pop are also people who like the more experimental work on NLOTH (namely F-BB). So you're a bit of an oddity in my book (nothing wrong with that - I appreciate people who give calm, reasoned negative opinions on NLOTH rather than being teh haterz).

Personally, Pop is my favorite album of all time, and I also like OS1 and Zooropa a lot... and NLOTH is my second favorite U2 album, with WAS and F-BB being absolute standouts. :shrug:
 
Hmm, I've gotten the impression that people who like albums such as Zooropa/OS1/Pop are also people who like the more experimental work on NLOTH (namely F-BB). So you're a bit of an oddity in my book (nothing wrong with that - I appreciate people who give calm, reasoned negative opinions on NLOTH rather than being teh haterz).

Personally, Pop is my favorite album of all time, and I also like OS1 and Zooropa a lot... and NLOTH is my second favorite U2 album, with WAS and F-BB being absolute standouts. :shrug:

Did you like Achtung Baby? That probably ties with The Joshua Tree as my favorite (hence my name). To me, Zooropa was a logical extention of Achtung Baby and was the next progressive step while not being at all predictable. I remember buying the cassette (yep, used a walkman almost exclusively back then) in the summer heat and walking the 7 blocks or so back from the record store in 1993. I wasn't expecting it to come close to Achtung Baby...but I would just sit, read the liner notes and hit rewind over and over again for probably the first 10 days or so. It was brilliant.

Pop didn't resonate as much with me when it was released, but that was probably due to a series of distractions in my life then. I do enjoy the album overall. To me, it seems less random than NLOTH does and the songs hit a different emotional nerve. It comes down to preference, but I notice if "IGWSHA" is on in my car, people get quiet and listen to the song and kind of get lost in it. My girlfriend said "wow" and had to rewind the part after the second verse that goes "so where is the hope and where is the faith and the......love?....whats that you say to me....?" That part strikes everyone because upon first listen, you don't know there are 2 apexes in that part - the part I quoted and "and the cartoon network turns into the news...If God..."

Thats just one example. Most U2 songs do that, I'm sure you know what I mean. I don't get that emotional connection from NLOTH except perhaps during "Moment Of Surrender", "Magnificent" and "Breathe". "Breathe" has the most seemless buildup and linear emotional sustenance and is still a rocker. "Winter"'s chorus is a nice surprise. I wish that made the album.
 
Did you like Achtung Baby? That probably ties with The Joshua Tree as my favorite (hence my name). To me, Zooropa was a logical extention of Achtung Baby and was the next progressive step while not being at all predictable. I remember buying the cassette (yep, used a walkman almost exclusively back then) in the summer heat and walking the 7 blocks or so back from the record store in 1993. I wasn't expecting it to come close to Achtung Baby...but I would just sit, read the liner notes and hit rewind over and over again for probably the first 10 days or so. It was brilliant.

Pop didn't resonate as much with me when it was released, but that was probably due to a series of distractions in my life then. I do enjoy the album overall. To me, it seems less random than NLOTH does and the songs hit a different emotional nerve. It comes down to preference, but I notice if "IGWSHA" is on in my car, people get quiet and listen to the song and kind of get lost in it. My girlfriend said "wow" and had to rewind the part after the second verse that goes "so where is the hope and where is the faith and the......love?....whats that you say to me....?" That part strikes everyone because upon first listen, you don't know there are 2 apexes in that part - the part I quoted and "and the cartoon network turns into the news...If God..."

Thats just one example. Most U2 songs do that, I'm sure you know what I mean. I don't get that emotional connection from NLOTH except perhaps during "Moment Of Surrender", "Magnificent" and "Breathe". "Breathe" has the most seemless buildup and linear emotional sustenance and is still a rocker. "Winter"'s chorus is a nice surprise. I wish that made the album.

Of course I love Achtung Baby. :)

It's just a matter of taste, I 'spose. I got plenty out of NLOTH, on what I feel are many levels (enjoyment, emotional, spiritual, intellectual), but I can see why you don't.
 
Did you like Achtung Baby? That probably ties with The Joshua Tree as my favorite (hence my name). To me, Zooropa was a logical extention of Achtung Baby and was the next progressive step while not being at all predictable. I remember buying the cassette (yep, used a walkman almost exclusively back then) in the summer heat and walking the 7 blocks or so back from the record store in 1993. I wasn't expecting it to come close to Achtung Baby...but I would just sit, read the liner notes and hit rewind over and over again for probably the first 10 days or so. It was brilliant.

Pop didn't resonate as much with me when it was released, but that was probably due to a series of distractions in my life then. I do enjoy the album overall. To me, it seems less random than NLOTH does and the songs hit a different emotional nerve. It comes down to preference, but I notice if "IGWSHA" is on in my car, people get quiet and listen to the song and kind of get lost in it. My girlfriend said "wow" and had to rewind the part after the second verse that goes "so where is the hope and where is the faith and the......love?....whats that you say to me....?" That part strikes everyone because upon first listen, you don't know there are 2 apexes in that part - the part I quoted and "and the cartoon network turns into the news...If God..."

Thats just one example. Most U2 songs do that, I'm sure you know what I mean. I don't get that emotional connection from NLOTH except perhaps during "Moment Of Surrender", "Magnificent" and "Breathe". "Breathe" has the most seemless buildup and linear emotional sustenance and is still a rocker. "Winter"'s chorus is a nice surprise. I wish that made the album.

Hey, great post!

I remember last year in the run up to NLOTH getting pissed at a few of the negative types, but you were not one of them. I think you write very well and reason your arguments even better.

Though I do not share your opinion of NLOTH(JT, AB Tie, War then NLOTH for me) I somewhat agree with you on Fez-Being Born. I have never really gotten much from this song and readily admit to not understanding it at all. This is from someone who greatly enjoys Zooropa and OS-1.

2 things you said stuck out to me as spot on:

1.)If God Will Send His Angels- I love this song! I have noticed many people react the same way you describe with your girlfriend, and at the exact same part. I think this song is brilliant. Emotionally striking in the same way as Stay to me.

2.)Breathe-My 1st listen to NLOTH, I thought Magnificent and Crazy Tonight had grabbed me immediately, then all of a sudden I heard Breathe. IT WAS INSTANT CONNECTION! I thought it was effortlessly amazing and built with great energy to that euphoric "I found grace inside a sound...etc" That line resonated so much with me, it was so unexpected, yet so fitting!
 
Thanks for understanding that I don't mean to cause any malice. If I may ask...If you had to choose, what would you say is their weakest album?

I'm not challenging your opinion, I'm just curious as to how you perceive their collection. This level of discourse is healthy when both parties agree that they share the love of the same artist's work, but their opinions simply differ on the final resonation of specific projects.

^Definitely!

This is a really tough question for me as I have a hard time ranking U2's albums and I honestly enjoy them all and don't feel any of their albums are weak, but I know you just mean weakest in a group of non-weak albums... which is tough!
I probably listen to Rattle and Hum the least, not that I don't like the live versions of the songs on it, but usually when I listen to an album the studio/live mixture just isn't what I want. (Though admittedly I've come to be pretty used to it on this album, but still...) So based on that alone, I call R&H their weakest for me. Take the live songs out though and it changes. I think it's a very strong and cohesive group of songs, so I don't know if I could call it weakest in my book. R&H aside, I would actually need to think about this more. Choosing U2's weakest album is choosing the weakest of a group of my favorite albums ever among all artists. If I think about every u2 album, even the ones I don't listen to as often as others right now, I still feel U2 has always done a very good job at putting together an "album". So even as I was about to tell you if I had to choose I guess I might say HTDAAB... I second guess myself and take it back because as albums go I think it's a very good collection of songs. I skip less songs on U2 albums than I do on albums from other bands I enjoy. I do know however, that NLOTH is not the weakest for me. Maybe it's because it's still all shiny and new, even a year later... but I really love this whole group of songs pretty consistently. (I have found that Cedars of Lebanon has eventually moved to my least favorite on the album though.)
Actually I didn't include the Passengers album here for some reason, strangely, because I do consider it a U2 album. If we're including it, well there would be my answer hands down. It's a lovely album with some amazing songs on it, but also some I really do not care for at all and while I think it's pretty awesome that U2 actually made the album, it would be my weakest link because there's just too much I don't like on it. Once again though, as an "album" I can't deny that it's an interesting collection of songs.
 
After a year +, the title track is easily my favorite song on the record, and contains the album's best hook and band dynamics.

Moment of Surrender is still a pretty damn fine recorded moment.

Breathe does actually capture that "joy" that Bono is always wanking off about.

Sexy Boots is pretty cool, but just doesn't stand up with, well, any of their previous lead singles.

And I won't say any of the other negative stuff that I could say, and have said before.

I like the record more than I did about 6 months ago.
 
I still consider it to be their worst album to date.

I agree, although "worst" is a bit strong. I don't think they're capable of putting out a downright bad LP because they push themselves pretty hard, but this one (and October and maybe Pop) I find relatively weaker. Had they put out NLOTH a year soon, without so much window-dressing production, I would be more receptive to it. But given the time and money spent crafting it to the level of a Backstreet Boys album (or so I assume), it's a fair disappointment.


"No Line On The Horizon" ... It has no hook.

Thank you for being the only one (beside me) to point this out. This track has everything it needs except a good tune.


The Vocals are astounding and the chorus has to be one of the most explosive they have written in a while.

Couldn't disagree more. When it arrives, I hear the chorus more like an overweight bear rolling over than an "explosion". Languorous song, not explosive.

"White As Snow" ... This is just a wrist-slitter and it has no place on a U2 album.

That's a bit much. I think this is a great song but (like much of the album) it's way over-produced and has relatively weak vocals (specify "weak" as "overblown" on much of the rest of the LP).

"Breathe" ... Bono leads a triumphant charge of raw power that leaves you no choice but to be captivated.

Apparently, not. I've tried hard to like this song (at one point, I almost did), but in the end, I just... don't. The lyrics are hokum, and the whole thing gives me a feeling like when people try to pretend to be happy when they're not. I think I've just had too much of this kind of lyrical approach from U2... as some others have pointed out, the "let's stay positive and everything will be all right" lyrical approach is getting more than a little tired. (I do like the "waaaalk out..." part, though, I must admit.)

"Cedars Of Lebanon" - A brutal letdown.

For me, the most perfectly realized (and perfect) song on the album.

The theme of war should have been ignored on this one... ...On top of that it's flat, dark, lifeless, moot and a cliche war statement that warns America to be careful who we mess with.

I'd be interested to know where you're getting this "war statement" vibe from. I take the theme of the song to be entirely about a man's relationship with a woman, and the hard lessons he's learned from his life. Okay, he's some sort of journalist or correspondent based in Lebanon, but that doesn't necessitate his being either (a) a war writer, or (b) American.


By the way, I enjoyed the metaphorical conceits in your post, but I'd say you went a little off the deep end with them (but then, so did John Donne).
 
Hmm, I've gotten the impression that people who like albums such as Zooropa/OS1/Pop are also people who like the more experimental work on NLOTH (namely F-BB). So you're a bit of an oddity in my book (nothing wrong with that - I appreciate people who give calm, reasoned negative opinions on NLOTH rather than being teh haterz).

Personally, Pop is my favorite album of all time, and I also like OS1 and Zooropa a lot... and NLOTH is my second favorite U2 album, with WAS and F-BB being absolute standouts. :shrug:

Yes, I have similar tastes to you. I also like FF-BB and WAS. I suspect there is (an albeit loose) correlation.
 
i just can't rank U2's albums anymore. i always feel bad for the albums on the bottom because there isn't a U2 album that i don't like. i popped in HTDAAB on Saturday and was fucking blown away, and i once ranked it as my least favorite U2 album.

so for NLOTH, i would just say that it's another great album in a great catalog.
 
That is how I feel too. It really is impossible for me to rank them. The only thing I can say for sure is that the Passengers album I would put last, and NLOTH I currently rank near the top. But it's awfully crowded up there at the top. There really isn't an in between.
 
Hey, great post!

I remember last year in the run up to NLOTH getting pissed at a few of the negative types, but you were not one of them. I think you write very well and reason your arguments even better.

Though I do not share your opinion of NLOTH(JT, AB Tie, War then NLOTH for me) I somewhat agree with you on Fez-Being Born. I have never really gotten much from this song and readily admit to not understanding it at all. This is from someone who greatly enjoys Zooropa and OS-1.

2 things you said stuck out to me as spot on:

1.)If God Will Send His Angels- I love this song! I have noticed many people react the same way you describe with your girlfriend, and at the exact same part. I think this song is brilliant. Emotionally striking in the same way as Stay to me.

2.)Breathe-My 1st listen to NLOTH, I thought Magnificent and Crazy Tonight had grabbed me immediately, then all of a sudden I heard Breathe. IT WAS INSTANT CONNECTION! I thought it was effortlessly amazing and built with great energy to that euphoric "I found grace inside a sound...etc" That line resonated so much with me, it was so unexpected, yet so fitting!


Thanks for the recognition. I definitely agree with your perception of the War album as well. It was ground-breaking for so many reasons. Bono has expressed some disappointment in HTDAAB. He said something to the effect of it not being greater than the sum of it's parts an it really irked him. I, for one, love that album. It has no weak tracks. "AMAAW" and "OSC" aren't my cup of tea, but I usually don't skip them. The Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby are more like fine wines to me. I break them out when there are no distractions and they really, honestly and truly bring me to another place. No disrespect to other bands, but I found only U2 Albums usually do this to me. I found they have that effect on others as well. I've been responsible for converting more than one person to U2ism lol. Usually all it takes is for me to instruct them to take the Achtung Baby album and isolate themselves for a short while and read the lyrics while the song s play -NO DISTRACTIONS. By the Time the bridge of "WGRYWH" hits, you realize you've been transported...even if you're still sitting at your kitchen table...transported emotionally. There are other examples and The Joshua Tree does the same thing and so do many of their albums, but you get what I mean. I do not mean to be so critical of NLOTH, perhaps it is me who is just not in-tune this time around.:sad:
 
^Definitely!

This is a really tough question for me as I have a hard time ranking U2's albums and I honestly enjoy them all and don't feel any of their albums are weak, but I know you just mean weakest in a group of non-weak albums... which is tough!
I probably listen to Rattle and Hum the least, not that I don't like the live versions of the songs on it, but usually when I listen to an album the studio/live mixture just isn't what I want. (Though admittedly I've come to be pretty used to it on this album, but still...) So based on that alone, I call R&H their weakest for me. Take the live songs out though and it changes. I think it's a very strong and cohesive group of songs, so I don't know if I could call it weakest in my book. R&H aside, I would actually need to think about this more. Choosing U2's weakest album is choosing the weakest of a group of my favorite albums ever among all artists. If I think about every u2 album, even the ones I don't listen to as often as others right now, I still feel U2 has always done a very good job at putting together an "album". So even as I was about to tell you if I had to choose I guess I might say HTDAAB... I second guess myself and take it back because as albums go I think it's a very good collection of songs. I skip less songs on U2 albums than I do on albums from other bands I enjoy. I do know however, that NLOTH is not the weakest for me. Maybe it's because it's still all shiny and new, even a year later... but I really love this whole group of songs pretty consistently. (I have found that Cedars of Lebanon has eventually moved to my least favorite on the album though.)
Actually I didn't include the Passengers album here for some reason, strangely, because I do consider it a U2 album. If we're including it, well there would be my answer hands down. It's a lovely album with some amazing songs on it, but also some I really do not care for at all and while I think it's pretty awesome that U2 actually made the album, it would be my weakest link because there's just too much I don't like on it. Once again though, as an "album" I can't deny that it's an interesting collection of songs.

I agree for the most part. Although, I do recommend popping Rattle and Hum into a high quality stereo and putting an emphasis on the live versions of "ISHFWILF". Listen for Adams bass intro after the 2 initial gospel choruses when the preacher and lead choir girl sing their parts...it is an event in itself. the live version of "Silver and Gold" and "Pride" sound great too imo. I mostly listen to "Van Diemens Land", "Desire", "Hawkmoon 269", "Angel Of Harlem", "WLCTT", "Heartland" (this one is a powerful intoxicant...brace yourself while anticipating Bono's brief falsetto at the end...oh my...it can erase a bad mood instantly), "God Part II" (fierce) and "AIWIY"...presumably, my wedding song!

"HTDAAB" does it for me. I especially enjoy bono's sustain of high notes during the middle-8s on this album ("SYCMIOYO" and "OOTS" being the best examples). But I can understand...sometimes albums don't speak to us all. I'm still trying to find out why NLOTH doesn't speak to me even after putting into words what I felt could have been improved on.

"October" is far from their best (imo), but the circumstances were different on the album (the loss of lyrics, time constraints, enormous pressure etc.). As much as I see it as unfinished and compromised, I don't think twice about giving it a listen every now and again. Some tracks really hit hard. The ones that don't, almost do...with a little more time, it could have been something else.
 
Over a year later and my initial reaction still stands. U2 songs either gel with me initially or never at all. To recap my initial impressions - I still consider it to be their worst album to date. I feel this way for many reasons. Before this one, I would have counted "Pop" as their worst, but at least Pop has a few hidden gems - "If God Would Send His Angels, "Gone", "The Playboy Mansion" and a few others. October was weak too (imo) but the direction was there and a few songs either nail it or are nearly there. NLOTH has only perhaps one song that has a sense of 100% polish or direction. There are a few ways to, theoretically, fix this album.

Here is what it needs:

First, the album needs one large dose of Zoloft to keep it a little more (pardon the pun) linear. I believe it was Time magazine that called the album "Unsatisfied" and "Mostly Restless, tentaive and confused". Time magazine, unlike this album, was dead-on.

A Song by song fix, in my opinion, would look like this:

"No Line On The Horizon" - Swap the album version with version 2 and 2/3 of the problem is fixed. The sound would be straight-forward but would have vital signs left for a chorus. Bono's loud vocal attack on either version is great, but the chorus just nosedives and leaves the listener wanting more of anything...even if Bono were to cough, it would spruce up the "Chorus". It has no hook. Even though there are no rules (especially in U2's music), a hook coupled with the raw sound of version 2 would have solidified this song. I also think that coupled with the working elements of "Unknown Caller", this song could have had a reverse-"Zooropa" like effect - a tempo change that drops you through a sonic trap door. More on this when I address track #4.

"Magnificent" - Nearly there. The lyrics are slightly odd and the Disco sound makes it sound distant. I'd say it is 90% ready for prime time. A few adjustments such as some new lyrical ideas and a slightly, slightly, slightly, less predictable slide-infused guitar solo would add at least 8% to this song. I also think this song would have fared better as say, a 4th or 5th track slotting to have added the final 2% solution for a refined, solid concept.

"Moment of Surrender" - Missed by a hair. The album version of this song simply does not need the lengthy intro and certainly does not need to sustain itself for roughly 7 minutes. The Vocals are astounding and the chorus has to be one of the most explosive they have written in a while. Bono says more with the words in the chorus than most songs do in their entirety. It would also fare better as an album closer, much like it closes their shows on the 360 Tour. Relocate the track and simply trim the fat on this one and you are one step closer to spinning gold.

"Unknown Caller" - Interesting song with good concepts, but the best elements of this song such as the birds singing and the monk-like chanting could have better served the opening track. If NLOTH (the song) would have slowed after the bridge and wandered into a groove with Edge's guitar playing the strident notes that dominate the second part of the intro to "Unknown Caller", a few vital parts of the chanting could have been added along with a shortened version of Edge's guitar solo to bring about a unique closing concept that extracts the best elements of these 2 songs. Otherwise, this song, while having some great elements (arguably), isn't strong enough to stand on it's own. Friends who are not as familiar with this song mistake the opening notes that coincide with the main introductory drum pattern for the beginning of "Walk On".

"I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight" - Nearly Flawless, if a bit poppy. Belongs either as track slot #3 or #4.

"Get On Your Boots" - Not a real fan of this song, but for it's intended purpose, would have served better as the 2nd track on this album. It would have resulted in a strong 1-2 punch that would keep the listener in an upbeat mood while bridging it to "IGCIIDGCT" before perhaps dropping slightly to the refined excellence of an ammended "Magnificent" (which I would have relocated to say, number 4).

"Stand Up Comedy" - A confused song, but pretty good. It helps sustain a positive mood on the album. It could be left alone or left off the album altogether, but it's a small rose amongst a bed of thorns.

"Fez - Being Born" - Okay. There is so much wrong with this one, I don't know where to begin. I would just say that...the tempo changes, the sounds of a marketplace and the repeat of "Let me in the sound..." are just what Time magazine meant when they called this album "confused". I understand the concept of artistic expression, but this is just not worthy of a U2 album. That initial dose of Zoloft would help keep this song in the trash can where it belongs. I know it sounds harsh, but this (I'll dignify it and call it a "song")...this song would make "Street Mission" look like 2010's song of the year.

"White As Snow" - Yeah, this and "Fez-Being Born" are brothers. Not brothers in the same sense as the Wright brothers sought to fly but in the way the Menendez brothers conspired to kill their parents. This song and the previous track conspire to kill what is an already weak album. The Zoloft hit should kill this one too. U2's written dark songs before, but even thir darkest songs shined. This is just a wrist-slitter and it has no place on a U2 album. It could, however, work as a song if it were donated to a cold, depressing movie. Incidently, "Winter", which was obviously left off this album and donated to the movie (theres that word again) "Brothers", is dark but manages to keep a great chorus while allowing Bono's great voice to reach for raw emotion that oozes an optimistic energy. The 2 songs should have been traded.

"Breathe" - Redemption almost incarnate. This song starts out purposely confused and finds it's place as a stark yet somehow, layered masterpiece that is content to be buried within the album. By the time Edge's initial guitar solo ends, Bono leads a triumphant charge of raw power that leaves you no choice but to be captivated. Watch live performances of this song and see how the band is feeling the energy...you will too! "Sing you heart out"...God is in the room on this one!!!

"Cedars Of Lebanon" - A brutal letdown. I prefer Bono's singing to his speaking when it comes to songs. The theme of war should have been ignored on this one. U2 covered the war theme in 1983 better than any news channel could have. We know there's horrible things going on. Aside from the weak and corny "Return the call to home..." chorus, the rest of the song is practically acapella. On top of that it's flat, dark, lifeless, moot and a cliche war statement that warns America to be careful who we mess with. Let's hope there's enough left of that Zoloft to drown this thing in Serotonin. Needless to say, this should have been Left off this album.

Now - last year, a few misguided people on here tried to label me a U2 basher and a hit and run poster. I remember their posts getting little support, and those who supported them seemed to blindly accept anything an artist puts out as a masterpiece. I'm sure some will crawl out of the woodwork to say how they are right and I am wrong. Bare in mind that this is my OPINION. If I learned something about my relationship with U2's music, it is that I am susceptible to love at first sound and that they rarely disappoint. Fortunately, I find most of the community members here are well-informed, friendly and unbiased. Bono promised to release the tentaively-titled "Songs Of Ascent" only if the quality surpassed that of NLOTH. It is with GREAT anticipation that I wait for their next release.

Wow...different strokes for different folks...

What you like about this album is what I think ruined it.
 
I agree, although "worst" is a bit strong. I don't think they're capable of putting out a downright bad LP because they push themselves pretty hard, but this one (and October and maybe Pop) I find relatively weaker. Had they put out NLOTH a year soon, without so much window-dressing production, I would be more receptive to it. But given the time and money spent crafting it to the level of a Backstreet Boys album (or so I assume), it's a fair disappointment.




Thank you for being the only one (beside me) to point this out. This track has everything it needs except a good tune.




Couldn't disagree more. When it arrives, I hear the chorus more like an overweight bear rolling over than an "explosion". Languorous song, not explosive.



That's a bit much. I think this is a great song but (like much of the album) it's way over-produced and has relatively weak vocals (specify "weak" as "overblown" on much of the rest of the LP).



Apparently, not. I've tried hard to like this song (at one point, I almost did), but in the end, I just... don't. The lyrics are hokum, and the whole thing gives me a feeling like when people try to pretend to be happy when they're not. I think I've just had too much of this kind of lyrical approach from U2... as some others have pointed out, the "let's stay positive and everything will be all right" lyrical approach is getting more than a little tired. (I do like the "waaaalk out..." part, though, I must admit.)



For me, the most perfectly realized (and perfect) song on the album.



I'd be interested to know where you're getting this "war statement" vibe from. I take the theme of the song to be entirely about a man's relationship with a woman, and the hard lessons he's learned from his life. Okay, he's some sort of journalist or correspondent based in Lebanon, but that doesn't necessitate his being either (a) a war writer, or (b) American.


By the way, I enjoyed the metaphorical conceits in your post, but I'd say you went a little off the deep end with them (but then, so did John Donne).


I respect your position on the album and I see we mostly agree on our assessments, despite a few feelings on a few tracks.

The War Statement Vibe I am getting comes from a few different areas. In the song, he clearly addresses the protagonists profession as a journalist. Don't quote me here, Im just spit-balling, but he says something to the effect of "spent yesterday trying to make a deadline, squeezing complicated lives into a headline". Coupled with that, I have read numerous bits about the song being about a journalist covering the war in Iraq or Afghanistan. I agree that it addresses the person's relationship with someone in another place, but he makes refrences to war-time occurences..."Child drinking dirty water from the river bank...soldier brings oranges he got out from a tank". The closing line is a blatant warning that would hardly correlate to a relationship, but sounds like its aimed at someone who is perhaps, making enemies and their choice of enemy reflects their values..."Choose your enemies carefully ‘cos they will define you...make them interesting ‘cos in some ways they will mind you...they’re not there in the beginning but when your story ends
Gonna last with you longer than your friends".

I also don't conclude that the main character is an American, as there is nothing I can find that would remotely support that.

Please bare in mind that I'm not swearing I'm correct about this. The character does, however, give me the firm impression that he/she/it is speaking to a country that is, perhaps, picking an unjust fight. Then again, I also believe I read a while back that this song was inspired by Jimi Hendrix...which is obviously untrue.
 
I agree for the most part. Although, I do recommend popping Rattle and Hum into a high quality stereo and putting an emphasis on the live versions of "ISHFWILF". Listen for Adams bass intro after the 2 initial gospel choruses when the preacher and lead choir girl sing their parts...it is an event in itself. the live version of "Silver and Gold" and "Pride" sound great too imo. I mostly listen to "Van Diemens Land", "Desire", "Hawkmoon 269", "Angel Of Harlem", "WLCTT", "Heartland" (this one is a powerful intoxicant...brace yourself while anticipating Bono's brief falsetto at the end...oh my...it can erase a bad mood instantly), "God Part II" (fierce) and "AIWIY"...presumably, my wedding song!

"HTDAAB" does it for me. I especially enjoy bono's sustain of high notes during the middle-8s on this album ("SYCMIOYO" and "OOTS" being the best examples). But I can understand...sometimes albums don't speak to us all. I'm still trying to find out why NLOTH doesn't speak to me even after putting into words what I felt could have been improved on.

"October" is far from their best (imo), but the circumstances were different on the album (the loss of lyrics, time constraints, enormous pressure etc.). As much as I see it as unfinished and compromised, I don't think twice about giving it a listen every now and again. Some tracks really hit hard. The ones that don't, almost do...with a little more time, it could have been something else.

Funny thing about HTDAAB is I agree with you. It was the album that made me become the U2 fan I am now (in other words a big one) and it was my favorite album for the longest time. I still have 2 of my favorite (though that list is long I'll admit) U2 songs on the album. Maybe I overplayed it to death (I know I did) and funny now that I think about that, it underwent the same treatment I currently give NLOTH. So this is probably why it slipped for me recently, but like I said before... I couldn't make myself call it a weaker of their albums because I just don't believe it is.
October actually ranked nearly #1 with me for quite some time and I still love it. As an album I think it is amazing as a whole, though I admit to never warming up to Fire (haha), and I remember in past threads being one of the few who loved Is That All as the closer.

I agree also with everything you said about Rattle and Hum. ISHFWILF is by far my favorite live track on the album. And Heartland... omg... listen to that one while driving through Death Valley to stop by U2's joshua tree... talk about goosebumps. I've made the trip 3 times now and I have to admit it's R&H I love listening to more while traveling those roads than TJT. God Part II is one of my all time favorites and top Bono performances as well. You know I took that quiz thingy that an interferencer created that ranks the albums for you according to how you rank every u2 song. Can't tell you how surprised I was to get to the end and have it tell me that according to my individual song rankings, Rattle and Hum is my favorite U2 album :ohmy: Honestly though... amazing songs on that album.
 
Funny thing about HTDAAB is I agree with you. It was the album that made me become the U2 fan I am now (in other words a big one) and it was my favorite album for the longest time. I still have 2 of my favorite (though that list is long I'll admit) U2 songs on the album. Maybe I overplayed it to death (I know I did) and funny now that I think about that, it underwent the same treatment I currently give NLOTH. So this is probably why it slipped for me recently, but like I said before... I couldn't make myself call it a weaker of their albums because I just don't believe it is.
October actually ranked nearly #1 with me for quite some time and I still love it. As an album I think it is amazing as a whole, though I admit to never warming up to Fire (haha), and I remember in past threads being one of the few who loved Is That All as the closer.

I agree also with everything you said about Rattle and Hum. ISHFWILF is by far my favorite live track on the album. And Heartland... omg... listen to that one while driving through Death Valley to stop by U2's joshua tree... talk about goosebumps. I've made the trip 3 times now and I have to admit it's R&H I love listening to more while traveling those roads than TJT. God Part II is one of my all time favorites and top Bono performances as well. You know I took that quiz thingy that an interferencer created that ranks the albums for you according to how you rank every u2 song. Can't tell you how surprised I was to get to the end and have it tell me that according to my individual song rankings, Rattle and Hum is my favorite U2 album :ohmy: Honestly though... amazing songs on that album.

The Pilgrimage to the Joshua Tree is something I definitiely would love to do. Unfortunately, being that I live on the East Coast, I do not get out West much. I do plan to visit California for possible relocation in the near future. I think I'm going to make a point of doing exactly what you said. I'm glad you reminded me of that!!! Thanks again!:wave:

I'm also going to look for that quiz you mentioned. I'm curious to see what it concludes my favorite album to be. It would be hilariously Ironic if it ended up being NLOTH lol.
 
The Pilgrimage to the Joshua Tree is something I definitiely would love to do. Unfortunately, being that I live on the East Coast, I do not get out West much. I do plan to visit California for possible relocation in the near future. I think I'm going to make a point of doing exactly what you said. I'm glad you reminded me of that!!! Thanks again!:wave:

I'm also going to look for that quiz you mentioned. I'm curious to see what it concludes my favorite album to be. It would be hilariously Ironic if it ended up being NLOTH lol.

It's a program you download, but it's pretty simple, and fun. And it was an eye opener for me for sure!
Here is the link.
U2rate - Main Page

I just took it again recently and this time it had No Line on top for me, barely edging out Achtung and Rattle & Hum.
 
It's a program you download, but it's pretty simple, and fun. And it was an eye opener for me for sure!
Here is the link.
U2rate - Main Page

I just took it again recently and this time it had No Line on top for me, barely edging out Achtung and Rattle & Hum.
I just did it. Thanks.

It surprised me a bit. My top 4 was exactly as I thought it would be but October ended up a lot higher than I expected.
 
It's a program you download, but it's pretty simple, and fun. And it was an eye opener for me for sure!
Here is the link.
U2rate - Main Page

I just took it again recently and this time it had No Line on top for me, barely edging out Achtung and Rattle & Hum.

Thank you!!! I took it and Achtung Baby edged out The Joshua Tree by a drop. Behind those, the next three, in descending order, were Rattle and Hum, Zooropa and HTDAAB.

Thanks Again!:up:
 
I just did it. Thanks.

It surprised me a bit. My top 4 was exactly as I thought it would be but October ended up a lot higher than I expected.

Thank you!!! I took it and Achtung Baby edged out The Joshua Tree by a drop. Behind those, the next three, in descending order, were Rattle and Hum, Zooropa and HTDAAB.

Thanks Again!:up:

It's pretty cool right? The first time I did it it totally stunned me when R&H came out on top. It's interesting to see how the albums fall in rank when they are measured on individual songs like that, and not looked at with our usual perception of albums as a whole experience. My current top 3 when viewed like this are NLOTH, AB,and R&H... all super close by an extremely small margin, with War currently last.
I think the program belongs to Interferencer ArthDent, but I could be wrong.
 
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