After a year...what do you think about NLOTH?

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I don't listen to the album with The Evil Middle Three in it. It's a pretty good album without those songs, and with the Linear version of Winter stuck somewhere in.

Completely agree. This is exactly how I listen to it too.

Even so, I still think it's far from one of their better works. Obviously, some people love it on this forum.

Love it or hate, there's no denying that it didn't really set the world on fire. It was by far their most ignored album of the past decade. This is inevitably going to influence (for better or for worse) their next project.
 
I don't listen to the album with The Evil Middle Three in it. It's a pretty good album without those songs, and with the Linear version of Winter stuck somewhere in.

I generally don't either, and I think overall it's very much a compromised album. I've never, ever, ever been a tracklist fiddling person. It's never remotely interested me before, but I've found with this one that I'm screaming for either a full on SoA or just a few songs from it to kind of try and remake a 'complete', smooth No Line. I think that even just the addition of the three or four songs we have heard/know a bit about, you get a massively improved album, even in keeping two of the terrible middle three (if you must):

No Line on the Horizon
Kingdom*
Moment of Surrender
Unknown Caller
Magnificent
I’ll Go Crazy if I Don’t Go Crazy Tonight**
Get on Your Boots
Fez-Being Born
White as Snow
Winter***
Every Breaking Wave****

Breathe
Cedars of Lebanon

* I really like the idea of those cascading strings in Kingdom merging into the start of MoS. And I think the album works well opening up with the darker depths-of-despair song/s, then moving out of it. Kingdom could be the opening track, but No Line does that brilliantly as well and doesn’t really work anywhere else, so it’s more like No Line is the opening credits or whatever, and then you take a dive downwards into Kingdom and the start of the story.

** Not sure if in reality it’s something they could have possibly done, or something that would have required impossible time travel, but how great would it be if once the album version of Crazy has run it’s course, right down to the “slow down” ending, a kind of refrain kicks in, a bit of a subtle beat and bass, slight percussion, and starts to build, basically becoming a studio version of that last third of the live remix, where it drops and builds to the point where Larry kicks in on the drums and it turns into a full dance party. Just have Bono chanting the “Know I’ll go crazy, go crazy, know I’ll go crazy if I don’t go crazy tonight” stuff, nothing else. Just a minute or two of that, the big drumming, maybe Edge screaming over the top. Either end it when it’s still upbeat, creating a great lead in to Boots, or, if you’re like me and think that there’s nothing lost if Boots is left off this and put back on the shelf to be the future naff promo single for a future terrible cash-in compilation, then let it run right to the end with the Iranian singing, and thus creating a great lead into Fez. Boots doesn’t do too badly leading into Fez though. It somehow sort of works regardless, and has the ‘let me in the sound’ links as well. Not great, but not bad. Certainly no worse than SUC currently.

*** Far more Linear than Brothers, but - obviously - finished/cleaned up etc.

**** Just going by it’s building/anthemic/"bit like WOWY" description, obviously no idea what it’s actually like.

It goes without saying, but I've also sent the master tapes for SUC straight to the local crematorium.
 
Um, OK, everyone else seems to have loved NLOTH, Mag, Boots, UC, etc live, did you see 360 in person?

I'm not sure why that would matter, but yeah, I saw the Rose Bowl show, most of it from the pit. And I've seen U2 26 times since 1981 every tour except the Lovetown tour which didn't play in the US, so I have a good idea about comparing tours, albums, performances, etc.

T.B.
 
The only song I really dislike on the album is SUC, if you add Winter(linear) into the running order somewhere then it's a very very good album, almost on a par with Pop(about seventh in my U2 album ranking scale).
 
I like the middle three. And I'm proud to say it.

In fact, I like the whole album. The weakest track, IMO, is "Unknown Caller". But otherwise, I'm loving this album.

It does bounce a bit in style, but I prefer that. One of the problems I've always had with JT was that the songs sounded a bit too similar - they all blended into each other. So I like some pop, some serious, some rock and some ambience. This album did it VERY well. A year later, I still have it in my top 3. TUF and AB have remained in the Top 2 for ages, with others bouncing around in spots 3-6, but it looks like NLOTH has not taken a permanent spot (until any future album) at #3.
 
Alright, happen to give some of the tracks a spin again on my drive home and over a year later I have to say...I really like this album!!

Magnificent is a great song still
Breathe is a classic U2 song, just awesome!
Moment of Surrender is also still a great song
Crazy Tonight...I still like it a lot (I dont know why a lot of people around here hate it so)
Boots.....I never really got into this tune but I like it, more than when I first heard it. Its a really "cool" tune.
NLOTH is still just okay to me
Unknown Caller still feels like it could have been soooo much better but I like it.
I have to say now that all the hype is gone from my head that when I reflect back on this album, its a really good album! I think it really hangs with ATYCLB and HTDAAB, both of which I love! Cosmo....OUT!
 
Gabe, if it's his opinion how can it be crazy?? :)


Btw, I love those songs.

I think he is just trying to debate and after all that is what makes this place fun, to share your thoughts with others as long as it doesnt get out of hand.. I happen to agree with him that its not in U2's top 5,10 or 20 for that matter. I couldn't put this in the same league as With or Without, Pride, Still Havent found, Bad, Angel of Harlem, One, Beautiful Day or Streets just to name a few. But its a U2 song, so if you like it...more power to you.:up:
 
Hmm... NLOTH is still my second favorite U2 album, though Pop and Achtung seem to have switched positions... I think right now it's:

1) Pop
2) No Line
3) Achtung Baby
4) The Unforgettable Fire
5) Zooropa
6) The Joshua Tree
7) All That You Can't Leave Behind
8) War
9) Boy
10) October
11) Bomb
12) Rattle and Hum

This is the first time in a long, long time that Achtung Baby hasn't been my favorite album ever.
 
A year (and a bit) on, I still rate NLOTH highly, though I'd now give it four rather than five stars. Breathe, Magnificent and Cedars of Lebanon remain strong, and I've always loved Get On Your Boots. Nevertheless, some of the other tracks have receded- I dislike SUC and CT even more than when I first heard them and the MOS/ UC passage seems rather less inspired now- a good idea that didn't come off. But is NLOTH still better than HTDAAB and ATYCLB? In my opinion, yes. That said, I fear that the relatively lukewarm response to the album will push the band down a radio-friendly route.
 
here's a mini debate: Fez-Being Born versus Love Like A Sunset.....which one goes down as the better album interlude?


I'm expecting Mikal to jump in here.
 
Maybe you need to do some re-listening, there's no way FBB is one of U2's top 5 songs of all time, cmon that's just crazy talk :)
It just has a very special vibe. It always gives me great feeling.:drool:
 
not their best ever but still an excellent album. Having a song like Get On Your Boots on an album really brings it down. whoever the band is.

I never put it in my top 5 or whatever when it was new as that would be jumping the gun. it's somewhere in the middle for me. better than HTDAAB by a mile but definitely not as good ATYCLB. Putting it like that it's been a pretty dry decade hasn't it? :p
 
not their best ever but still an excellent album. Having a song like Get On Your Boots on an album really brings it down. whoever the band is.

I never put it in my top 5 or whatever when it was new as that would be jumping the gun. it's somewhere in the middle for me. better than HTDAAB by a mile but definitely not as good ATYCLB. Putting it like that it's been a pretty dry decade hasn't it? :p

Interesting. I agree with you that it's better than the lacklustre HTDAAB. I also agree that it's been a lean decade by the band's standards. But I'd argue NLOTH is their best since Pop. Without Levitate and Summer Rain, ATYCLB doesn't really convince me. Furthermore, what is so bad about Boots in your opinion? I know that a lot of people will disagree with me but I rather like it. I enjoy the overdriven guitarwork and there are a lot of interesting little touches. In a way it reminds me of a Queen song- I could easily hear Freddie Mercury roaring 'you don't know, you don't get it do you?" If NLOTH has a weak spot it is surely the insipid Crazy Tonight?
 
not their best ever but still an excellent album. Having a song like Get On Your Boots on an album really brings it down. whoever the band is.

Wow I'd have to completely disagree with that, especially the "whoever the band is" part. A song about being able to find a bright spot of joy in the world is spot on U2 to me. Having the song on the album actually brings it up, from my point of view anyway. I love U2 when they are in their darker mode too, but it's those high points of their joy that round the albums out for me.
 
Over a year later and my initial reaction still stands. U2 songs either gel with me initially or never at all. To recap my initial impressions - I still consider it to be their worst album to date. I feel this way for many reasons. Before this one, I would have counted "Pop" as their worst, but at least Pop has a few hidden gems - "If God Would Send His Angels, "Gone", "The Playboy Mansion" and a few others. October was weak too (imo) but the direction was there and a few songs either nail it or are nearly there. NLOTH has only perhaps one song that has a sense of 100% polish or direction. There are a few ways to, theoretically, fix this album.

Here is what it needs:

First, the album needs one large dose of Zoloft to keep it a little more (pardon the pun) linear. I believe it was Time magazine that called the album "Unsatisfied" and "Mostly Restless, tentaive and confused". Time magazine, unlike this album, was dead-on.

A Song by song fix, in my opinion, would look like this:

"No Line On The Horizon" - Swap the album version with version 2 and 2/3 of the problem is fixed. The sound would be straight-forward but would have vital signs left for a chorus. Bono's loud vocal attack on either version is great, but the chorus just nosedives and leaves the listener wanting more of anything...even if Bono were to cough, it would spruce up the "Chorus". It has no hook. Even though there are no rules (especially in U2's music), a hook coupled with the raw sound of version 2 would have solidified this song. I also think that coupled with the working elements of "Unknown Caller", this song could have had a reverse-"Zooropa" like effect - a tempo change that drops you through a sonic trap door. More on this when I address track #4.

"Magnificent" - Nearly there. The lyrics are slightly odd and the Disco sound makes it sound distant. I'd say it is 90% ready for prime time. A few adjustments such as some new lyrical ideas and a slightly, slightly, slightly, less predictable slide-infused guitar solo would add at least 8% to this song. I also think this song would have fared better as say, a 4th or 5th track slotting to have added the final 2% solution for a refined, solid concept.

"Moment of Surrender" - Missed by a hair. The album version of this song simply does not need the lengthy intro and certainly does not need to sustain itself for roughly 7 minutes. The Vocals are astounding and the chorus has to be one of the most explosive they have written in a while. Bono says more with the words in the chorus than most songs do in their entirety. It would also fare better as an album closer, much like it closes their shows on the 360 Tour. Relocate the track and simply trim the fat on this one and you are one step closer to spinning gold.

"Unknown Caller" - Interesting song with good concepts, but the best elements of this song such as the birds singing and the monk-like chanting could have better served the opening track. If NLOTH (the song) would have slowed after the bridge and wandered into a groove with Edge's guitar playing the strident notes that dominate the second part of the intro to "Unknown Caller", a few vital parts of the chanting could have been added along with a shortened version of Edge's guitar solo to bring about a unique closing concept that extracts the best elements of these 2 songs. Otherwise, this song, while having some great elements (arguably), isn't strong enough to stand on it's own. Friends who are not as familiar with this song mistake the opening notes that coincide with the main introductory drum pattern for the beginning of "Walk On".

"I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight" - Nearly Flawless, if a bit poppy. Belongs either as track slot #3 or #4.

"Get On Your Boots" - Not a real fan of this song, but for it's intended purpose, would have served better as the 2nd track on this album. It would have resulted in a strong 1-2 punch that would keep the listener in an upbeat mood while bridging it to "IGCIIDGCT" before perhaps dropping slightly to the refined excellence of an ammended "Magnificent" (which I would have relocated to say, number 4).

"Stand Up Comedy" - A confused song, but pretty good. It helps sustain a positive mood on the album. It could be left alone or left off the album altogether, but it's a small rose amongst a bed of thorns.

"Fez - Being Born" - Okay. There is so much wrong with this one, I don't know where to begin. I would just say that...the tempo changes, the sounds of a marketplace and the repeat of "Let me in the sound..." are just what Time magazine meant when they called this album "confused". I understand the concept of artistic expression, but this is just not worthy of a U2 album. That initial dose of Zoloft would help keep this song in the trash can where it belongs. I know it sounds harsh, but this (I'll dignify it and call it a "song")...this song would make "Street Mission" look like 2010's song of the year.

"White As Snow" - Yeah, this and "Fez-Being Born" are brothers. Not brothers in the same sense as the Wright brothers sought to fly but in the way the Menendez brothers conspired to kill their parents. This song and the previous track conspire to kill what is an already weak album. The Zoloft hit should kill this one too. U2's written dark songs before, but even thir darkest songs shined. This is just a wrist-slitter and it has no place on a U2 album. It could, however, work as a song if it were donated to a cold, depressing movie. Incidently, "Winter", which was obviously left off this album and donated to the movie (theres that word again) "Brothers", is dark but manages to keep a great chorus while allowing Bono's great voice to reach for raw emotion that oozes an optimistic energy. The 2 songs should have been traded.

"Breathe" - Redemption almost incarnate. This song starts out purposely confused and finds it's place as a stark yet somehow, layered masterpiece that is content to be buried within the album. By the time Edge's initial guitar solo ends, Bono leads a triumphant charge of raw power that leaves you no choice but to be captivated. Watch live performances of this song and see how the band is feeling the energy...you will too! "Sing you heart out"...God is in the room on this one!!!

"Cedars Of Lebanon" - A brutal letdown. I prefer Bono's singing to his speaking when it comes to songs. The theme of war should have been ignored on this one. U2 covered the war theme in 1983 better than any news channel could have. We know there's horrible things going on. Aside from the weak and corny "Return the call to home..." chorus, the rest of the song is practically acapella. On top of that it's flat, dark, lifeless, moot and a cliche war statement that warns America to be careful who we mess with. Let's hope there's enough left of that Zoloft to drown this thing in Serotonin. Needless to say, this should have been Left off this album.

Now - last year, a few misguided people on here tried to label me a U2 basher and a hit and run poster. I remember their posts getting little support, and those who supported them seemed to blindly accept anything an artist puts out as a masterpiece. I'm sure some will crawl out of the woodwork to say how they are right and I am wrong. Bare in mind that this is my OPINION. If I learned something about my relationship with U2's music, it is that I am susceptible to love at first sound and that they rarely disappoint. Fortunately, I find most of the community members here are well-informed, friendly and unbiased. Bono promised to release the tentaively-titled "Songs Of Ascent" only if the quality surpassed that of NLOTH. It is with GREAT anticipation that I wait for their next release.
 
Over a year later and my initial reaction still stands. U2 songs either gel with me initially or never at all. To recap my initial impressions - I still consider it to be their worst album to date. I feel this way for many reasons. Before this one, I would have counted "Pop" as their worst, but at least Pop has a few hidden gems - "If God Would Send His Angels, "Gone", "The Playboy Mansion" and a few others. October was weak too (imo) but the direction was there and a few songs either nail it or are nearly there. NLOTH has only perhaps one song that has a sense of 100% polish or direction. There are a few ways to, theoretically, fix this album.

Here is what it needs:

First, the album needs one large dose of Zoloft to keep it a little more (pardon the pun) linear. I believe it was Time magazine that called the album "Unsatisfied" and "Mostly Restless, tentaive and confused". Time magazine, unlike this album, was dead-on.

A Song by song fix, in my opinion, would look like this:

"No Line On The Horizon" - Swap the album version with version 2 and 2/3 of the problem is fixed. The sound would be straight-forward but would have vital signs left for a chorus. Bono's loud vocal attack on either version is great, but the chorus just nosedives and leaves the listener wanting more of anything...even if Bono were to cough, it would spruce up the "Chorus". It has no hook. Even though there are no rules (especially in U2's music), a hook coupled with the raw sound of version 2 would have solidified this song. I also think that coupled with the working elements of "Unknown Caller", this song could have had a reverse-"Zooropa" like effect - a tempo change that drops you through a sonic trap door. More on this when I address track #4.

"Magnificent" - Nearly there. The lyrics are slightly odd and the Disco sound makes it sound distant. I'd say it is 90% ready for prime time. A few adjustments such as some new lyrical ideas and a slightly, slightly, slightly, less predictable slide-infused guitar solo would add at least 8% to this song. I also think this song would have fared better as say, a 4th or 5th track slotting to have added the final 2% solution for a refined, solid concept.

"Moment of Surrender" - Missed by a hair. The album version of this song simply does not need the lengthy intro and certainly does not need to sustain itself for roughly 7 minutes. The Vocals are astounding and the chorus has to be one of the most explosive they have written in a while. Bono says more with the words in the chorus than most songs do in their entirety. It would also fare better as an album closer, much like it closes their shows on the 360 Tour. Relocate the track and simply trim the fat on this one and you are one step closer to spinning gold.

"Unknown Caller" - Interesting song with good concepts, but the best elements of this song such as the birds singing and the monk-like chanting could have better served the opening track. If NLOTH (the song) would have slowed after the bridge and wandered into a groove with Edge's guitar playing the strident notes that dominate the second part of the intro to "Unknown Caller", a few vital parts of the chanting could have been added along with a shortened version of Edge's guitar solo to bring about a unique closing concept that extracts the best elements of these 2 songs. Otherwise, this song, while having some great elements (arguably), isn't strong enough to stand on it's own. Friends who are not as familiar with this song mistake the opening notes that coincide with the main introductory drum pattern for the beginning of "Walk On".

"I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight" - Nearly Flawless, if a bit poppy. Belongs either as track slot #3 or #4.

"Get On Your Boots" - Not a real fan of this song, but for it's intended purpose, would have served better as the 2nd track on this album. It would have resulted in a strong 1-2 punch that would keep the listener in an upbeat mood while bridging it to "IGCIIDGCT" before perhaps dropping slightly to the refined excellence of an ammended "Magnificent" (which I would have relocated to say, number 4).

"Stand Up Comedy" - A confused song, but pretty good. It helps sustain a positive mood on the album. It could be left alone or left off the album altogether, but it's a small rose amongst a bed of thorns.

"Fez - Being Born" - Okay. There is so much wrong with this one, I don't know where to begin. I would just say that...the tempo changes, the sounds of a marketplace and the repeat of "Let me in the sound..." are just what Time magazine meant when they called this album "confused". I understand the concept of artistic expression, but this is just not worthy of a U2 album. That initial dose of Zoloft would help keep this song in the trash can where it belongs. I know it sounds harsh, but this (I'll dignify it and call it a "song")...this song would make "Street Mission" look like 2010's song of the year.

"White As Snow" - Yeah, this and "Fez-Being Born" are brothers. Not brothers in the same sense as the Wright brothers sought to fly but in the way the Menendez brothers conspired to kill their parents. This song and the previous track conspire to kill what is an already weak album. The Zoloft hit should kill this one too. U2's written dark songs before, but even thir darkest songs shined. This is just a wrist-slitter and it has no place on a U2 album. It could, however, work as a song if it were donated to a cold, depressing movie. Incidently, "Winter", which was obviously left off this album and donated to the movie (theres that word again) "Brothers", is dark but manages to keep a great chorus while allowing Bono's great voice to reach for raw emotion that oozes an optimistic energy. The 2 songs should have been traded.

"Breathe" - Redemption almost incarnate. This song starts out purposely confused and finds it's place as a stark yet somehow, layered masterpiece that is content to be buried within the album. By the time Edge's initial guitar solo ends, Bono leads a triumphant charge of raw power that leaves you no choice but to be captivated. Watch live performances of this song and see how the band is feeling the energy...you will too! "Sing you heart out"...God is in the room on this one!!!

"Cedars Of Lebanon" - A brutal letdown. I prefer Bono's singing to his speaking when it comes to songs. The theme of war should have been ignored on this one. U2 covered the war theme in 1983 better than any news channel could have. We know there's horrible things going on. Aside from the weak and corny "Return the call to home..." chorus, the rest of the song is practically acapella. On top of that it's flat, dark, lifeless, moot and a cliche war statement that warns America to be careful who we mess with. Let's hope there's enough left of that Zoloft to drown this thing in Serotonin. Needless to say, this should have been Left off this album.

Now - last year, a few misguided people on here tried to label me a U2 basher and a hit and run poster. I remember their posts getting little support, and those who supported them seemed to blindly accept anything an artist puts out as a masterpiece. I'm sure some will crawl out of the woodwork to say how they are right and I am wrong. Bare in mind that this is my OPINION. If I learned something about my relationship with U2's music, it is that I am susceptible to love at first sound and that they rarely disappoint. Fortunately, I find most of the community members here are well-informed, friendly and unbiased. Bono promised to release the tentaively-titled "Songs Of Ascent" only if the quality surpassed that of NLOTH. It is with GREAT anticipation that I wait for their next release.
 
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