With or Without You lyrics

[Achtung Bubba]

Great, so you people think I'm fat.

If you guys must know, this is what I look like:

And, yup, I'm only 21, so I shouldn't be complaining at not having a girlfriend, but it seems like it's a lot easier for complete jerks, and I don't understand that.

(And at the same time, I've picked a bad major for finding girls, if anything my standards have gone up over the years, and I haven't done too much in this area in the last few years.)

(And maybe the fact that I'm a six-foot-tall tiger that doesn't wear pants doesn't help either.

)

Anyway... back to discussing WOWY, I think the statement that it embodies U2 is true; few other U2 songs are so dependent on Bono's vocals, Edge's guitarwork, Adam's bassline, AND Larry's drumwork. It really is a perfect combination of the strength of all four of them.

Now, whether it's lyrically about U2, I couldn't say.

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- Achtung Bubba

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 09-05-2000).]

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

LOL Bubba.. Nice set of paws

I agree that With Or Without You shows good performance of the four-piece -- They mesh together -- there's no overpowering element.. i have a interview on disc where Edge uses this very reason (and also the fact that he feels this best sums up the JT and direction of U2 at the time -- though he found it near impossible to sum up the diverse JT album with one song) for releasing With Or Without You as the first single off of JT.

 

[AchtungSteve]

Only 21 Bubba? A man doesn't grow up until his med or late 20's. I believe Bono was 27 when JT came out. You need to fall in love soon, get your heart totally ripped to pieces, then you will be ready for love again...That is the way it designed my friend

Most men when they fall in love that first time write the poems, send the cards, buy the candy...they do EVERYTHING until...she reaches into that chest with her claws and rips out your heart and starts to gnaw at it right in front of you while she laughs at your pain! LA BELLE DAM SANS MERCI!!!

A man needs pain to become humble and gentle. Then you will be ready for true love, because you will love the person - and not just the IDEA of love. And think of how brave it is to fall in love after that first tragedy...not everybody survives that you know...

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Thanks for the encouragement.

I'm sure things'll work out in the end. Whether that means I'll have a family or live as a hermit in some cave in Montana, things will work out.

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- Achtung Bubba

 

[Quick Vick]

Hey Steve. If you are wanting a closer relationship with Jesus, you might want to start practicing what his word says!

 

[AchtungSteve]

I do try, but I am a little uncertain to what exactly you are referring?

 

[Quick Vick]

You said that the woman you are with is your fiancee, not your wife and yet you have had sex with her. The Bible is very clear on that subject. Also, in another post I got you a little miffed. We were talking about Bono's voice and how it has changed. You replied to one of my replies very angrily and you used the word "shit" to describe your feelings about the matter. The Bible also says that profanity reveals what is truly in your heart. I am not mad, just trying to help you out as a fellow Christian.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Okay... I see this turning very personal very quickly. It might not, but I want to intercede before hand.

IMHO, what Achtung Steve does or says is between him and God, and he doesn't have to respond.

But if you guys want to continue this discussion, PLEASE do so like civil human beings. Because, honestly, I'm going out of town this weekend, and I don't want to clean up after any flame wars when I get back.

Thanks.

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- Achtung Bubba

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 09-08-2000).]

 

[Quick Vick]

It isn't getting personal. You don't have to worry about me!

 

[partygirl]

It is getting personal QuickVick and I am worried about you. In case you haven't noticed you will find many people with different religious affiliations on this forum and some with none at all. Within the Christian faith there will be many different lifestyles and interpretations of scriptures You may believe with all your heart that your way is the right way, and some may agree with you, but it is rude (in my opinion) to use an attacking tone to express your opinion. Religious arguements of that nature are going to lead to nowhere on this forum. In no way am I suggesting that you are wrong to have a strong belief, but your response to Achtung Steve came off rudely. I don't know if you meant it too. This is my opinion on the subject and in no way am I attempting to moderate the thread.

 

[Quick Vick]

How on Earth did I attack Steve? If you would read what I was suggesting to my fellow Christian brother, you wouldn't be "WORRIED" about me. Anyway it doesn't matter what you think about the matter. It is what the one true God thinks about it. Steve claims to believe the same way I do. The Bible says to correct a brother if I see him "fall." In no way am I harping on you Steve. I hope you understand.

 

[Spectre]

Quick Vick,
I see that you are only trying to help, but it is never a good idea to put people on the spot that way, especially in a public forum. Though you may not mean to offend, I'm sure you probably offended Achtung Steve or at the least made him uncomfortable. The Bible also says in Matthew 7:3

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Anyway, I'll leave this to you and Achtung Steve to sort out.

[This message has been edited by Spectre (edited 09-08-2000).]

 

[AchtungSteve]

No real offense taken. I realize that living with my fiancee in a sexual way is sinful. But my flesh is weak, what can I say? I "feel" married to her, but I am not married in God's eyes. I am now 30 and I just don't think I could have gone 30 years without sex! I do not have that sort of discipline! Also, we would be married today if it did not take so much planning and coordination to make it a special event. Bad excuse, but...(one more thing, she is stunning and I just melt before her!

Just remember, do not confuse the messenger with the message! I may not be the best example of a good Christian - but do not let my weaknesses dissuade any of you from the Glory of the Truth!

About the word shit, sometimes a well placed curse word can add emphasis to a point. It is wrong to take the Lord's name in vain, but I doubt the word shit existed 2000 years ago. I feel confident that the use of that word will not keep me from the pearly gates

Wasn't this topic about With or Without You?

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I'm back -- and relieved to find things still going well in this thread.

And yup, we WERE talking about WOWY...

Here's a question: in "and you give yourself away" who is the singer referring to? The lover? Himself? The midget in the "All I Want Is You" video?

What's your theory?

(Or if you want to continue the discussion's direction as it is, go right ahead...)

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- Achtung Bubba

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 09-11-2000).]

 

[partygirl]

I think he's referring to himself. I believe that he interpretated that in an interview a long time ago when the song came out. It refers to giving himself away to a public and having nothing left on a private level. Also he meant for the listener to understand it on a personal level as well. When we give of ourselves in a relationship there is always the risk of hurt. That is the nature of mortal love, however, it's not worth going without the potential love can bring as well. Does this make sense? That is what I remember of the interview. I think I read it in Rolling Stone in about 1987.

 

[Quick Vick]

I think he is referring to Jesus. He gave his life away. THE WHOLE SONG IS ABOUT JESUS!!! At least that is what I think.

 

[skyanin]

I don't know. I see the entire song as the narrator singing about the frustration he has with this girl, whom he totally idealises. He has placed her on this pedestal and therefore he can't live without her, because he thinks she is this incredible creature. At the same time, she is only human and can't live up to those expectations, so she is constantly failing in his eyes, and hurting him, making him feel like he can't live with her. So the line "you give yourself away" is probably what the singer thinks she is doing by not maintaining this pure image he has of her. I'm thinking the whole Madonna/Whore deal. What do you think?

 

[Quick Vick]

I disagree skyanin. Read the lyrics closely and think about the only person he could be talking about. Read the rest of the thread. You will get a lot of opinions on this song.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I think it's a very ambiguous line; often, I find myself agreeing with skyanin about the girl "giving herself away", and other times I think the line points back to the singer who has thrown away his pride, common sense, and self-worth to be with the girl.

At any rate, even IF it's a reference to Christ (a very big IF), it is certainly not clearly so. The question is very much up in the air.

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- Achtung Bubba

 

[skyanin]

To what you were saying, Achtung Bubba, about the line "give yourself away" applying to the singer, not the girl, I think it does fit, but it depends on how you initially look at the lyrics. If you look at it as I do, as the singer singing about this woman and the demands his imagination has placed on her, then he would be critical of her for not living up to his expectations, not saying to himself that he is "giving himself away."
I don't see the "she" in the song as some sort of evil creature who's using the singer for her own purposes, which would be reason for the singer to lament how he is giving himself away and wasting time on her, thus bringing up the issues of self-worth, pride and common sense you brought up.
Because the "thorn twist in [her] side" and because "[she] give it all" I see her as a sympathetic character. I have a similar interpretation for the lyrics of Lemon, and I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on a connection between the two songs.
As to the religious angle you brought up, Quick Vick, I don't know. When I read the lyrics while thinking about religion, I think about 3 characters: God, the singer, and the girl. Trying to figure out who the singer is singing to in each line makes the song feel unfinished and too short to me. If you have another angle to approach this song in a religious manner, let me know and I'll give it a try.

Skyanin

 

[popsadie]

Here is a possible religious interp that i believe Can be made...but certainly isn't the only interp

I believe that if you substitute "she" for temptation and "you" for god/christ...you can make a fairly good case for a religious interpretation of this song.

see the stone set in your eyes see the thorn twist in your side....here, the "you" is god/christ and the thorn twisting in his side is a reference to the crown of thorns and the spear in the side

"I wait for You"...ie, he waits for God to appear to him

"Slight of hand and twist of fate, on a bed of nails "She" makes me wait...if she is representative of temptation, then temptation is being compared here to the "bed of nails" that christ sat on...

And i wait Without You...ie, he's in the midst of succcumbing to temptation and feels like he's gone to far to see god anymore...

With or without you...i can't live..with or without you...without God he can't truly live...but with him he feels like he can't live life like he wants to...ie surrender..

Through the storm we reach the shore= allusion to jesus and the disciples episode in Luke 8 22-25 where Jesus quiets the storm for his disciples...You..=god give it all but I want more...
And i'm waiting for you..

and you give yourself away....in this interp, i see this referring to christ's sacrifice..

My hands are tied, my body bruised..she's got me with nothing left to win and nothing left to lose...she=temptation

With or without you...i can't Live with or without you...again, the narrator believes he can't truly Live without God...but he can't have his own life with God either...he must surrender..and this song could express the struggle of surrender...and the lure and pain of temptation..."sweet the sin..bitter the taste in my mouth.."

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Skyanin:

Like I said, both interpretations work. Personally, even when I think that the singer is "giving himself away", I don't think the object of desire (the girl) is evil, probably just careless or at least not returning his love. Either way, giving himself away is an empty gesture that he continues to do.

I'm probably just not very optimistic when it comes to women.

And, honestly, I don't usually connect WOWY and "Lemon", since I believe WOWY is about a lover and "Lemon" is about Bono's mom -- and that theory's an entire thread in itself.

And popsadie:

Yeah, your interpretation does work, but like I've said before, it's a bit of a stretch.

It's like saying "Love Is Blindness" is about Northern Ireland if there WASN'T an aural cue of the ticking timebomb.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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- Achtung Bubba

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 09-13-2000).]

 

[popsadie]

well..i guess we are all entitled to opinions..although i don't think the song is strictly a religious song...the fact remains that just about every verse has a biblical allusion....and it follows i still haven't found..which is unquestionably a religious song....i don't find it much of a stretch at all, but then...I'm not much for straight love songs..infact...most bore me...yawn..

anyway...to each is own I suppose
Megan

 

[skyanin]

Popsadie:
That was a very good interpretation of the song. Changing the "she" to temptation clears up a lot of problems I had looking at the song from a religious perspective. I also agree with you and Achtung Bubba that it probably is about a lover, though the religious interpretation is just as valid. I make the leap and add the Madonna/Whore feeling to the song, because I think it takes the lyrics beyond the simple lovie duvie relationship songs.
As for connecting Lemon to WOWY, I know that Lemon came about after Bono saw old footage of his mother wearing a yellow dress, but I think that that was only the inspiration. I think the song is about (just like in WOWY), imagination. This woman in yellow who only comes out at night (since imagination is stronger at night)is sung about with other references to imagination.
"Midnight is where the day begins" - at night is where imagination begins.
All the movie and camera descriptions - attempts to "capture" and control imagination.
All the buildings and roads that man dreams up and then builds - imagination realized.
"She's imagination" - a line in the song.
I see this song exploring imagination and the singer's desire to make the woman who wears Lemon, not "see through in the sunlight" (ie. real).
It could be his mother he is trying to bring back, but I just don't feel the song as being maternal. Do you?

Skyanin

 

[AchtungSteve]

I am glad to see the topic has switched back to the song

I think the "you" in the line "and you give yourself away" is a generic you. I mean, in any relationship, you give yourself away.

 

[skyanin]

But is the "you give yourself away" referring to making that connection in a relationship where you "give" yourself over to another person whom you love, or is the singer crying about his loved one "wasting" herself by moving on to someone who is less worthy than she is?

 

[Quick Vick]

The "you" the singer is referring to is Jesus. He gave his life away, he had a thorn twisted in his side, we are "wait"ing for his return, we can't live with him physically because he is in heaven, and we can't live without him because he sustains our spirit, and the stone setting in the eyes is, I think, Jesus' eyes right when he dies. NO other person could fit this description!!!!!!!!!

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

Yes Quick Vick, I do think there are some religious mentions in With or without you... but I think they allude to something relating to the feelings generated in a relationship.. it's kind of like holding the two up in comparison.. I have always thought about "and you give yourself away" as well -- I think this is referring to, as Steve said, the feeling of giving yourself over to your partner... as if you're giving that other person your whole heart and soul and all of your efforts to make this thing called love work out... but in the end you may feel like it is nothing but failure and you've wasted all this energy -- it's a bit of the cynical side of relationships... hey, someone's got to write about it!