Bono In Conversation - Page 6

the soul waits · 06-16-2005, 06:12 AM

Thanks, Beli.
It's quite funny how carefull you are with your wording. It shouldn't be such a big deal to comment on Bono in a less than admiring way-after all, he's human.
Noone will deny that he's a clever businessman.
In fact, i agree with what you wrote. Doesn't mean I think any less of him, personaly, i think edge has more integrity.
*runs and hides

biff · 06-16-2005, 12:04 PM

Hi Beli. Well, I agree with some of what you have said, but I don't think you really address the whole creative aspect of Bono's life. You say he "has taken lyrics from other songwriters, poets, authors". I can think of three or four examples of that, such as the Delmore Scwartz line from Acrobat, and the Charles Bukowski line from Dirty Day (both of which are acknowledged in the album notes, by the way). But this is a person who has written dozens and dozens of often deeply moving songs which he didn't "steal".
I cannot agree that someone as lacking in reflection as you theorize Bono to be would have such an obviously rich creative life. It just doesn't add up, and that's why I still think there's a puzzle about this man, an enigma if you will.

biff · 06-16-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beli

I don't want to say much more than this or I will be flamed by the Bono Brigade. lol.

LOL, no fear of that. They're all to busy in PLEBA talking about his butt! (Meow.)

beli · 06-16-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by the soul waits
Thanks, Beli.
It's quite funny how carefull you are with your wording. It shouldn't be such a big deal to comment on Bono in a less than admiring way-after all, he's human.
Noone will deny that he's a clever businessman.
In fact, i agree with what you wrote. Doesn't mean I think any less of him, personaly, i think edge has more integrity.
*runs and hides

My original post has a bit about perhaps, maybe, just maybe, The Edge writes the profound lyrics but I have absolutely no evidence to support this so I deleted it.

*runs out of the thread, screaming like a girl*

beli · 06-16-2005, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by biff
Hi Beli. Well, I agree with some of what you have said, but I don't think you really address the whole creative aspect of Bono's life. You say he "has taken lyrics from other songwriters, poets, authors". I can think of three or four examples of that, such as the Delmore Scwartz line from Acrobat, and the Charles Bukowski line from Dirty Day (both of which are acknowledged in the album notes, by the way). But this is a person who has written dozens and dozens of often deeply moving songs which he didn't "steal".

I cannot agree that someone as lacking in reflection as you theorize Bono to be would have such an obviously rich creative life. It just doesn't add up, and that's why I still think there's a puzzle about this man, an enigma if you will.

Biff, you are much morer the intellectual than moi. When I was refering to stolen lyrics I was thinking more of the Neil Diamond and John Lennon bits. lol.

I agree, U2 haven't stolen all of their lyrics. There are many unique lyrics ("heavy as a truck"

)

I believe Bono is very good at setting the mood of the songs. I much prefer his "lyrics" on The Unforgettable Fire to recent lyrics. Bono is the master of atmospheric warbling.

As for Bonos creative life, a critic of Bonos paintings for the Peter and the Wolf project described Bonos work as having been painted the way a person thinks paintings should look. (or words to that effect). Which is basically what I'm saying about his lyrics. I believe Bono to be very observant and a great mimic.

Not that it matters what a shrimp, a sheep, and

Bono think about Bono.

beli · 06-16-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by biff

LOL, no fear of that. They're all to busy in PLEBA talking about his butt! (Meow.)

Adams butt

biff · 06-16-2005, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beli

My original post has a bit about perhaps, maybe, just maybe, The Edge writes the profound lyrics but I have absolutely no evidence to support this so I deleted it.

Good, because there is no evidence for this. McGuiness says Bono writes 98% of the lyrics, as do other sources, including the Flanagan book. I guess that would include the profound bits.
I do feel personally that you are perhaps somewhat too dismissive of the "atmospheric warbling". Are there not any U2 lyrics that do something more for you than merely "set the mood of the songs", as you say?

Here are comments from some interesting people who actually know the guy:

Wim Wenders:

"Bono is probably the most amazing person I've every met. Who could have become a great director, writer, philosopher, preacher, whatever."

Bill Gates (gasp):

"He only reluctantly agreed to meet Bono, the lead singer of the band U2 who campaigns for debt relief and AIDS prevention, as a courtesy to his old friend and co-founder of Microsoft, Paul Allen.

"I have to admit, I didn't think I wanted to spend time with Bono," Mr. Gates said. "I mean, you know, I don't meet with rock stars. What would I talk with them about?"

Their meeting changed his mind. "I mean, this guy is a genius, and not just a music genius," Mr. Gates said. "So I didn't expect it to be fun the way I know it would be fun to meet with my TB expert or to spend time talking with Rick Klausner and brainstorming about how we do this stuff."

So I still say that this person is more than merely a canny, observant, unreflective mimic.

But what do we know?

beli · 06-16-2005, 09:56 PM

Oh no, I'm obviously coming across the wrong way. I adore the atmospheric warbling, I do, I do. No one does it better than Bono. I can also listen to Italian pop Opera (Bocelli, Pavarotti, etc ) and enjoy it immensely even though I don't understand Italian.

I agree with Wim Wenders I believe Bono could/will become anything he wants. And I agree with Bill Gates too.

I think your being dismissive of tacticians skills.

Seriously, its a tremendous skill that Bono has. Very few people have it. The ones I have met are all high powered business people.

I think this is not coming off well due to me possessing the linguistic skills of an accountant. My comments weren't an insult, quite the contrary.

As for the lyrics and what they do for me. I like the sound of U2 as a whole. I'm in the minority here. Whenever theres a poll held to see who prefers the lyrics to the music or the melody to the rhythm, I'm always with the minority in prefering the music. Actually with the melody versus rhythm song I was the only person who voted for the rhythm. I'm just as happy at listening to instrumentals as I am to songs with lyrics.

I copped a lot of flax when I was running one of the Survivors for including Passengers songs. Apparently instrumental songs are not songs and shouldn't be included. A singer is another instrument to me.

As for lyrics the only U2 song where I really listen to the lyrics is So Cruel. If you asked me to sing along to a U2 song I would be incapable of doing so. At concerts, for any band, I'm the sort that likes to sit in the corner with my eyes closed and let the music wash over me, take me away. Unless its something like Youssou N'Dour where theres four drummers and I'm up and dancing. (Actually Youssou is another singer I like and I don't speak a word of French )

Does this clarify or confuse? lol

biff · 06-16-2005, 09:58 PM

Also, this is no doubt a really dumb question, but...Neil Diamond?
I don't think I know what this is referring to, unless it's the "I AM" bit, in which case I guess maybe they both borrowed from the Bible. Does the John Lennon reference refer to God Part II, or something else?

beli · 06-16-2005, 10:05 PM

A Man and A Woman "How can I hurt when I’m holding you?" is straight out of Sweet Caroline.

"Every Artist Is A Cannibal, Every Poet a Thief " is a John Lennon quote.

Theres another Neil one too, Ive temporarily forgotten.

beli · 06-16-2005, 10:06 PM

And theres more. I'm blanking at the moment. Theres another Salman Rushdie quote (not Ground Beneath Her Feet)

beli · 06-16-2005, 10:14 PM

Just out of curiosity, which U2 songs do you consider profound?

PS I just went a hunting for my John Lennon Cds to listen to God and I can't find them.

biff · 06-16-2005, 10:14 PM

We posted at almost the same time!

So, you adore the atmospheric warbling, and that's fine, but you still would somehow prefer to imagine that the "profound lyrics" are written by Edge. Could this be because there's a disconnect between the profundity of the lyrics and the image you have of Bono as a canny yet unreflective tactician? Could there be some sort of puzzle here?

I do agree that Bono's tactical skills are remarkable, and have got him far. I just think there's more depth there.

I also agree that in many cases the singer is, and should be, another intrument. Passengers is one of my favourite albums.
But lyrics do often have as deep an impact on me as the music.

I'm rambling here. My comfy bed is calling. I guess we shall have to agree to disagree on some of this, at least until I've had some sleep.

biff · 06-16-2005, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beli

"Every Artist Is A Cannibal, Every Poet a Thief " is a John Lennon quote.

From what, do you remember?

beli · 06-16-2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

A Sort of Homecoming - the lyric "this bomb-blast lightning waltz" was lifted from the poet Seamus Heaney

thats a quote from Financeguy in another thread.

beli · 06-16-2005, 10:24 PM

Quick reply as Im racing off out the door.

Achtung Baby contains the songs I personally consider to be U2s most profound and as The Edges personal life is reflected partially in that album thats why I think maybe Edge is the profound one. lol. Im typing without proof reading my posts.

The John Lennon quote was a quote not a snippet from a song. I'll find it for you when I return.

biff · 06-16-2005, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beli
Quick reply as Im racing off out the door.

Achtung Baby contains the songs I personally consider to be U2s most profound and as The Edges personal life is reflected partially in that album thats why I think maybe Edge is the profound one. lol. Im typing without proof reading my posts.

Well, it was Edge's (and Guggi's) divorce experiences, but Bono's words. So what makes it profound, the actual break-up of the marriages, or the way that was expressed? What makes it art?

Also, I Googled the Heaney reference, and the only actual match was the quote from Financeguy. If Bono used an exact quote from Heaney, the Nobel prize winner, it wouldn't have been stealing and hoping no one would notice. It would have been an homage, as it was with Bukowski and Schwartz. (But I can find no Heaney poem with those lines.)

Anyway, anon!

beli · 06-17-2005, 02:10 AM

Firstly, I'll go beat up Financeguy. I know which thread he lives in.

The actual breakup of a marriage isn't art, no. I just find it odd that the only album that features profound lyrics, to me, is the one recorded when The Edge was experiencing heavy personal issues. Why is this? Did The Edge write some of the lyrics? Does Bono only experience pain through very close friends (as well as himself)? To me a poet is a person who has empathy and feels many situations.

As for personal pain of Bonos, Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own is full of cliches. Nothing profoud here.

Quote:

Sometimes You Can't Make it On Your Own
Tough, you think you’ve got the stuff
You’re telling me and anyone
You’re hard enough

You don’t have to put up a fight
You don’t have to always be right
Let me take some of the punches
For you tonight

Listen to me now
I need to let you know
You don’t have to go it alone

And it’s you when I look in the mirror
And it’s you when I don’t pick up the phone
Sometimes you can’t make it on your own

We fight all the time
You and I… that’s alright
We’re the same soul
I don’t need… I don’t need to hear you say
That if we weren’t so alike
You’d like me a whole lot more

Listen to me now
I need to let you know
You don’t have to go it alone

And it’s you when I look in the mirror
And it’s you when I don’t pick up the phone
Sometimes you can’t make it on your own

I know that we don’t talk
I’m sick of it all
Can - you - hear - me – when – I -
Sing, you’re the reason I sing
You’re the reason why the opera is in me…

Where are we now?
I’ve got to let you know
A house still doesn’t make a home
Don’t leave me here alone...

And it’s you when I look in the mirror
And it’s you that makes it hard to let go
Sometimes you can’t make it on your own
Sometimes you can’t make it
The best you can do is to fake it
Sometimes you can’t make it on your own

Stuck in a Moment is a deeper but its completely missing on understanding of the situation. I know we disagree on this and thats fine. I feel if you say "pull yourself together" to a suicidal person they are likely to pull a punch or jump off the edge.

Slide Away is another one thats not empathetic

Quote:

Are you gonna wake again?
Are you gonna take it down?
Oh babe, I don't wanna deal it
Oh, make it alright
Gimme some, my love
Away, away, away

I just wanna slide away and come alive again
I just wanna slide away and come alive again
I will see that love again, and find a life again
I just wanna slide away and come alive again

I wanted to let it go
Just couldn't let it go
I wanted to let it go
Just couldn't let you go

I would catch you
(Just couldn't let you go)
I'd catch you as you fall
(Just couldn't let it go)
I would catch you
(Just couldn't let you go)
I'd catch you if I heard your call

But you tore a hole in space
Like a dark star, falls from grace
You burn across the sky
And I would find you wings to fly
And I would catch you
I would catch your fall

I just wanna slide away and come alive again
I just wanna slide away and come alive again
I will see that love again, and find a life again
I just wanna slide away and come alive again

We could pick through the lyrics on the latest album. Again, nothing profound there.

Or another album. I'm curious as to which songs you find intriguing.

PS What do you teach? This is where you come out and say you teach literature isn't it.

blueeyedgirl · 06-17-2005, 02:47 AM

I'm going to butt in here, because I can and I like to piss off Beli

.

From reading the Dunphy and Flanagan books, as well as interviews, Bono always talked about how difficult it was to have his father's outright approval. I remember one time he talked about his father seeing them play in the US and Bono thought (my paraphrasing here) "here he comes, he's finally gonna tell me he's proud of me, and my old man comes up and says "That was vrey professional, son".

That quote and his general demeanour, the way he behaves, to me shows someone who's desperate to be LIKED. Maybe this is deathly obvious to everyone, but I thought I'd go on about it anyway.

beli · 06-17-2005, 02:50 AM

That doesn't piss me off in the slightest. I agree with you. I think Bono has a pathological desire to be liked.

06-16-2005, 06:12 AM	#101
the soul waits New Yorker Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 2,528 Local Time: 12:37 AM	Thanks, Beli. It's quite funny how carefull you are with your wording. It shouldn't be such a big deal to comment on Bono in a less than admiring way-after all, he's human. Noone will deny that he's a clever businessman. In fact, i agree with what you wrote. Doesn't mean I think any less of him, personaly, i think edge has more integrity. *runs and hides __________________

06-16-2005, 12:04 PM	#102
biff Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I may have lost my way Posts: 4,014 Local Time: 05:37 PM	Hi Beli. Well, I agree with some of what you have said, but I don't think you really address the whole creative aspect of Bono's life. You say he "has taken lyrics from other songwriters, poets, authors". I can think of three or four examples of that, such as the Delmore Scwartz line from Acrobat, and the Charles Bukowski line from Dirty Day (both of which are acknowledged in the album notes, by the way). But this is a person who has written dozens and dozens of often deeply moving songs which he didn't "steal". I cannot agree that someone as lacking in reflection as you theorize Bono to be would have such an obviously rich creative life. It just doesn't add up, and that's why I still think there's a puzzle about this man, an enigma if you will. __________________

06-17-2005, 02:50 AM	#120
beli Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a frock in Western Australia Posts: 15,464 Local Time: 06:37 AM	That doesn't piss me off in the slightest. I agree with you. I think Bono has a pathological desire to be liked. __________________

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06-16-2005, 09:56 PM	#108
beli Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a frock in Western Australia Posts: 15,464 Local Time: 06:37 AM	Oh no, I'm obviously coming across the wrong way. I adore the atmospheric warbling, I do, I do. No one does it better than Bono. I can also listen to Italian pop Opera (Bocelli, Pavarotti, etc ) and enjoy it immensely even though I don't understand Italian. I agree with Wim Wenders I believe Bono could/will become anything he wants. And I agree with Bill Gates too. I think your being dismissive of tacticians skills. Seriously, its a tremendous skill that Bono has. Very few people have it. The ones I have met are all high powered business people. I think this is not coming off well due to me possessing the linguistic skills of an accountant. My comments weren't an insult, quite the contrary. As for the lyrics and what they do for me. I like the sound of U2 as a whole. I'm in the minority here. Whenever theres a poll held to see who prefers the lyrics to the music or the melody to the rhythm, I'm always with the minority in prefering the music. Actually with the melody versus rhythm song I was the only person who voted for the rhythm. I'm just as happy at listening to instrumentals as I am to songs with lyrics. I copped a lot of flax when I was running one of the Survivors for including Passengers songs. Apparently instrumental songs are not songs and shouldn't be included. A singer is another instrument to me. As for lyrics the only U2 song where I really listen to the lyrics is So Cruel. If you asked me to sing along to a U2 song I would be incapable of doing so. At concerts, for any band, I'm the sort that likes to sit in the corner with my eyes closed and let the music wash over me, take me away. Unless its something like Youssou N'Dour where theres four drummers and I'm up and dancing. (Actually Youssou is another singer I like and I don't speak a word of French ) Does this clarify or confuse? lol

06-16-2005, 09:58 PM	#109
biff Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I may have lost my way Posts: 4,014 Local Time: 05:37 PM	Also, this is no doubt a really dumb question, but...Neil Diamond? I don't think I know what this is referring to, unless it's the "I AM" bit, in which case I guess maybe they both borrowed from the Bible. Does the John Lennon reference refer to God Part II, or something else?

06-16-2005, 10:05 PM	#110
beli Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a frock in Western Australia Posts: 15,464 Local Time: 06:37 AM	A Man and A Woman "How can I hurt when I’m holding you?" is straight out of Sweet Caroline. "Every Artist Is A Cannibal, Every Poet a Thief " is a John Lennon quote. Theres another Neil one too, Ive temporarily forgotten.

06-16-2005, 10:06 PM	#111
beli Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a frock in Western Australia Posts: 15,464 Local Time: 06:37 AM	And theres more. I'm blanking at the moment. Theres another Salman Rushdie quote (not Ground Beneath Her Feet)

06-16-2005, 10:14 PM	#112
beli Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a frock in Western Australia Posts: 15,464 Local Time: 06:37 AM	Just out of curiosity, which U2 songs do you consider profound? PS I just went a hunting for my John Lennon Cds to listen to God and I can't find them.

06-16-2005, 10:14 PM	#113
biff Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I may have lost my way Posts: 4,014 Local Time: 05:37 PM	We posted at almost the same time! So, you adore the atmospheric warbling, and that's fine, but you still would somehow prefer to imagine that the "profound lyrics" are written by Edge. Could this be because there's a disconnect between the profundity of the lyrics and the image you have of Bono as a canny yet unreflective tactician? Could there be some sort of puzzle here? I do agree that Bono's tactical skills are remarkable, and have got him far. I just think there's more depth there. I also agree that in many cases the singer is, and should be, another intrument. Passengers is one of my favourite albums. But lyrics do often have as deep an impact on me as the music. I'm rambling here. My comfy bed is calling. I guess we shall have to agree to disagree on some of this, at least until I've had some sleep.

06-16-2005, 10:24 PM	#116
beli Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a frock in Western Australia Posts: 15,464 Local Time: 06:37 AM	Quick reply as Im racing off out the door. Achtung Baby contains the songs I personally consider to be U2s most profound and as The Edges personal life is reflected partially in that album thats why I think maybe Edge is the profound one. lol. Im typing without proof reading my posts. The John Lennon quote was a quote not a snippet from a song. I'll find it for you when I return.

06-17-2005, 02:47 AM	#119
blueeyedgirl Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bottom of the earth Posts: 6,776 Local Time: 08:07 AM	I'm going to butt in here, because I can and I like to piss off Beli . From reading the Dunphy and Flanagan books, as well as interviews, Bono always talked about how difficult it was to have his father's outright approval. I remember one time he talked about his father seeing them play in the US and Bono thought (my paraphrasing here) "here he comes, he's finally gonna tell me he's proud of me, and my old man comes up and says "That was vrey professional, son". That quote and his general demeanour, the way he behaves, to me shows someone who's desperate to be LIKED. Maybe this is deathly obvious to everyone, but I thought I'd go on about it anyway.