What do U2 have to say to the unemployed?

[BVS]

Cedars is a song written from the perspective of a US soldier serving in Iraq, right? While it could be said that some US military personel are from underprivileged backgrounds, there was a time when U2 wrote songs from the perspective of the colonised, not the colonists (e.g., Bullet the Blue Sky, Mothers of the Disappeared). And unfortunately in the Middle East, the US is the colonist/imperialist, as I think you would agree, as I'm pretty sure based on your political perspective from your FYM posts you were not in favour of the invastion. Your point would make more sense if Cedars was written from the point of view of an Iraqi civilian - but, judging from the lyrics, it is not.

I am not very familiar with the others songs you mentioned. I will try to check them out.

Cedars is actually about a war correspondent not a soldier... and it sounds like a correspondent that doesn't really want to be there.

You aren't familiar with the other songs? How do you know Cedars and not the others from that album?

 

[Lemonfix]

Yes, the tour is a net benefit to the economy. However, the issue that I am highlighting is relevance. I am thinking, why does U2 not write songs like the ones I have listed any more?

Thing is though, if U2 tried to write a song about the problem of the unemployed, they'd get tons of shit from people saying "what do those multi-millionaires know about the lives of the downtrodden? who does Bono think he is? Shouldn't he be focusing on Africa? blah blah blah."

No matter what they do, someone's gonna criticize.

 

[indra]

Brooce does though, to name but one example.

Which is fine. It's also fine to not keep making songs about the same things.

 

[financeguy]

Should they be saying "pick up a guitar and get creative?"

Seriously, don't peddle your "00's U2 sucks" agenda under the guise of blaming them for the GFC.

Crumbs is about hardship too.

B's answer to the question re them offshoring to tax havens was gold. "You're an idiot if you don't treat it like a business. That's why you're able to make more music, reach more people."

The point of music isn't to offer physical and tangible solutions to people's problems. It's about offering inspiration and spiritual motivation through sound.

The second you assume music does any more than that, is the second you have become blinded by your own agenda's and are criticising for the sake of having a big blub about it.

Grow a pair and stop blaming people.

Your post demonstrates so many logical inconsistencies, misinterpretations, fallacies and simple factual inaccuracies that it is difficult to know where to start.

But, for a start, if you are going to go down the route of claiming my thread is all about a disguised "00's U2 sucks" and nothing else, don't make statements such as your 5th and 6th paragraphs, as in point of fact, during the 1980's and 1990's, much of U2's agenda was indeed about putting forward their work as being about more than just chart driven pop music and nice choons.

I doubt if you're a U2 fan to be honest, you certainly know very little about their work, with the possible exception of their recent material. Implicit in your post is a complete ignorance of what the band stand for (or, at least, used to) and what they are trying to achieve (or, at least, were trying to achieve, judging from their historical output).

 

[financeguy]

Cedars is actually about a war correspondent not a soldier... and it sounds like a correspondent that doesn't really want to be there.

What? I'd say that's bollocks. But anyway, that makes my point even more valid. War correspondents are not particularly dispossessed or underprivileged.

 

[Scorpionac]

What you don't have you don't need it now?

I'm not sure a song can fix anything. When did Red Hill Mining Town ever do a single day's work for anybody? =p

 

[financeguy]

You are ignoring Crumbs From Your Table.

That is one example from the recent years, but it's about the only one.

It depresses a whole lot of people, but I can't recall a story of anyone ever saying the pulled themselves off the mat because Bono sang about a shanty town in South Africa

You're wrong, then.

 

[financeguy]

Thing is though, if U2 tried to write a song about the problem of the unemployed, they'd get tons of shit from people saying "what do those multi-millionaires know about the lives of the downtrodden? who does Bono think he is? Shouldn't he be focusing on Africa? blah blah blah."

No matter what they do, someone's gonna criticize.

This is a valid point. There is no easy answer to it.

 

[Lemonfix]

Brooce does though, to name but one example.

That's always been Bruce's thing, same with John Melloncamp and others--they've made their career singing about the common man. Less so with U2.

 

[dan_smee]

Your post demonstrates so many logical inconsistencies, misinterpretations, fallacies and simple factual inaccuracies that it is difficult to know where to start.

But, for a start, if you are going to go down the route of claiming my thread is all about a disguised "00's U2 sucks" and nothing else, don't make statements such as your 5th and 6th paragraphs, as in point of fact, during the 1980's and 1990's, much of U2's agenda was indeed about putting forward their work as being about more than just chart driven pop music and nice choons.

I doubt if you're a U2 fan to be honest, you certainly know very little about their work, with the possible exception of their recent material. Implicit in your post is a complete ignorance of what the band stand for (or, at least, used to) and what they are trying to achieve (or, at least, were trying to achieve, judging from their historical output).

You're right.

I hate the band. Whereas, you obviously are a much bigger fan than me.

Sorry.






My 5th and 6th paragraphs were in now way taking away from what they stand for. I am making the point that people derive what they can from the songs, but sound, aural perception, can not physically change anything about your situation. It can't put the money in your pocket, it can't cure cancer.

You can interpret anything you want from my post, and you show your elementary understanding of other's opinions by taking totally erroneous points from my post.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

What? I'd say that's bollocks. But anyway, that makes my point even more valid. War correspondents are not particularly dispossessed or underprivileged.

Hey? Sorry if I’m reading your response wrong, but if you’re questioning what Cedars is about – aside from Bono specifically saying so – even a quick glance at the lyrics makes it obvious.

Not sure about the author wanting to be there or not. I think he’s in two minds. Wants to be home, misses home greatly, but can’t tear himself away from this sort of thing. Needs/wants both.

 

[dan_smee]

What? I'd say that's bollocks. But anyway, that makes my point even more valid. War correspondents are not particularly dispossessed or underprivileged.

Haha, seriously?

"Squeezing complicated lives into a simple headline"

Apart from the fact that Bono has actually said it's about a war correspondant, yeah, I can see why you think it's bollocks, Bono does LIE afterall.

You don't think war correspondant's have it tough? You lead a very sheltered existance then.

You know, it seems to me like you're just pissed because maybe you just lost your job?

 

[financeguy]

You can interpret anything you want from my post, and you show your elementary understanding of other's opinions by taking totally erroneous points from my post.

If you make statements like 'grow a pair' and dismiss people's different points of view as just down to hating '00's U2, expect a response in kind. As I said to BVS, I'm not a hater, I just call it as I see it. So do you - fair enough, I can respect that.

My 5th and 6th paragraphs were in now way taking away from what they stand for. I am making the point that people derive what they can from the songs, but sound, aural perception, can not physically change anything about your situation. It can't put the money in your pocket, it can't cure cancer.

It's precisely because U2 (or at least, Bono) used to regularly say that music was more than just music and could be a force for positive political and spiritual change that people who prefer their earlier material are entitled to ask questions such as 'have they changed? and 'If so, why?' and the like.

 

[BVS]

What? I'd say that's bollocks. But anyway, that makes my point even more valid. War correspondents are not particularly dispossessed or underprivileged.

You don't believe it's about a correspondent?

You don't believe that a correspondent can be depressed or dispossessed by having to be in a foreign land covering a war they don't believe in?

 

[dan_smee]

You don't believe it's about a correspondent?

You don't believe that a correspondent can be depressed or dispossessed by having to be in a foreign land covering a war they don't believe in?

BVS, it appears that no matter what valid and logical arguement we make, if he can't offer a simple or childish retort, he then questions our credibility. Time wasting OVER

 

[financeguy]

You don't believe it's about a correspondent?

You don't believe that a correspondent can be depressed or dispossessed by having to be in a foreign land covering a war they don't believe in?

BVS creates sidetrack....how original.

 

[BVS]

How is that a sidetrack?

 

[dan_smee]

BVS creates sidetrack....how original.

how on earth is that a sidetrack? you yourself were the one trying to claim the entire point of your thread was to claim that they haven't written songs about people suffering hardship in years

 

[financeguy]

BVS, it appears that no matter what valid and logical arguement we make, if he can't offer a simple or childish retort, he then questions our credibility. Time wasting OVER

The fact that you're agreeing with one of the most notorious trolls on the forum does not say much for your own credibility.

 

[dan_smee]

BVS, it appears that no matter what valid and logical arguement we make, if he can't offer a simple or childish retort, he then questions our credibility. Time wasting OVER

BVS creates sidetrack....how original.

How is that a sidetrack?

 

[dan_smee]

The fact that you're agreeing with one of the most notorious trolls on the forum does not say much for your own credibility.

Please, and this is said in the friendliest of ways, please look at your own behaviour in this thread.

EVERY occasion I have encountered BVS in a thread it is upholding the honour of the band.

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[BVS]

The fact that you're agreeing with one of the most notorious trolls on the forum does not say much for your own credibility.

Ironic post of the day!!!

 

[financeguy]

Let's be clear. A war correspondent is not dispossessed or underprivileged in the same sense that, for example, a person living in a shanty town in apartheid-era South Africa (Silver and Gold), or a mother in Chile that just saw her children assassinated by Pinochet's special forces (Mothers of the Disappeared) is. Not to say a war correspondent doesn't encounterd hardship or difficulties or whatever but it's by choice. That's the key difference.

In any case, anyone with a cursory knowledge of U2 will be aware that Bono has on several occasions offered different interpretations of various songs over the years.

 

[dan_smee]

Let's be clear. A war correspondent is not dispossessed or underprivileged in the same sense that, for example, a person living in a shanty town in apartheid-era South Africa (Silver and Gold), or a mother in Chile that just saw her children assassinated by Pinochet's special forces (Mothers of the Disappeared) is. Not to say a war correspondent doesn't encounterd hardship or difficulties or whatever but it's by choice. That's the key difference.

In any case, anyone with a cursory knowledge of U2 will be aware that Bono has on several occasions offered different interpretations of various songs over the years.

How in your right mind can you claim it is by choice when the whole point of the thread is to spruik about the GFC and unemployment. It is by choice insofar as they chose that, or they are unemployed.

You are a walking contradiction!

 

[BVS]

Let's be clear. A war correspondent is not dispossessed or underprivileged in the same sense that, for example, a person living in a shanty town in apartheid-era South Africa (Silver and Gold), or a mother in Chile that just saw her children assassinated by Pinochet's special forces (Mothers of the Disappeared) is. Not to say a war correspondent doesn't encounterd hardship or difficulties or whatever but it's by choice. That's the key difference.

In any case, anyone with a cursory knowledge of U2 will be aware that Bono has on several occasions offered different interpretations of various songs over the years.

I agree. But it doesn't make it "bollucks". This still doesn't justify your thread that U2 somehow is out of touch "fat" millionaires.

 

[Chief43]

What? I'd say that's bollocks. But anyway, that makes my point even more valid. War correspondents are not particularly dispossessed or underprivileged.

Is that for real? Journalism is one industry that comes under the microscope constantly for trying to deliver the truth ethically without delivering the agenda of the corporations that own them. It's a tricky balance. War correspondents are in the midst of some of the most dangerous pockets globally and have a purpose to deliver the facts which aren't always easy to decipher (due to the propaganda of either side fighting, and the fact that journalism is now seen as simply as a trade to sensationalise stories to make money). Plenty of war correspondents die every year in Iraq, Gaza, Somalia and a number of Sub Saharan countries.

And after working 60-70 hour weeks in isolation, the pay rate isn't all that great. It is mostly about curiosity and the belief in delivering the truth. Unfortunately, some journalists do not report ethically and the industry is sneered at by a fair number in society. How can facing this many obstacles on a day to day basis not be compared to the downtrodden experiencing the same environment?

 

[financeguy]

How in your right mind can you claim it is by choice when the whole point of the thread is to spruik about the GFC and unemployment. It is by choice insofar as they chose that, or they are unemployed.

You are a walking contradiction!

War correspondents are relatively well paid, and a good war correspondent, if he or she decides to move on from that specific employment, has many opportunities potentially open to them in the media industry. If all else fails, there is a good market for books written by war correspondents.

Also, the song was written at a time when the recession had not got properly started, so a war correspondent who decided to chuck in the media profession would probably have been able to pick up alternative suitable employment. Note, I am not saying war correspondents do not encounter hardships, so please don't retort, once again, by alleging that I am.

 

[digitize]

financeguy, aren't you a staunch capitalist/libertarian type?

I don't know many of those who are actively concerned about the conditions of the working class.

 

[financeguy]

financeguy, aren't you a staunch capitalist/libertarian type?

I somewhat cleave in that direction, yes.

I don't know many of those who are actively concerned about the conditions of the working class.

One thing I can't stand is hypocrisy, and from my perspective we've seen an awful lot of that from U2 in recent years.

 

[believer75]

Yes, the tour is a net benefit to the economy. However, the issue that I am highlighting is relevance. I am thinking, why does U2 not write songs like the ones I have listed any more?

Thankfully, they do have those songs already in the catalogue. Maybe they feel like they have spoken on this subject as well as they are able and do not feel like revisiting that again? Or maybe they feel the best way to approach it this time is to entertain people with escapism instead of reminding them of something they already know? It is hard to escape the news of hardship in the media already and if U2 were to write a song about it now, it could seem a bit predictable and not as effective as say, when they were writing these songs (in the '80's) during better economic times. Maybe they will play one of these older songs in concert that they have not played in a while (I wish) and then an older tune becomes relevant once again.