U2 looks to enter an unknown dimension in rock history

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You're counting Beautiful Ghost, Rise Up, and Angels too Tied to the Ground as 00's material? They weren't re-recorded, just remastered, with the exception of the Wave of Sorrow vocal.

And including "Best Of" albums as some kind of creative output?

Wow, you're desperate.

Also, as the Million Dollar Hotel film premiered in Feb of 2000, I imagine The Ground Beneath Her Feet was completed pretty far before that, as the music seemed so integral to the making of the film. So it could be argued that's part of the 90's as well.

New as in previously unreleased material, but ok, let's leave out all the JT re-worked songs. Wave of sorrow also had Bono writing the lyric, BTW.

The Best of new songs, yes, they're a part of their 00's output. Nice try.

Ground beneath her feet and Stateless were originally going to be on All that... but the band vetoed Bono. MDH soundtrack came out in early 2000.

Tourist: Salome tapes are comparable to Flower child, Smile, Love you like mad and Levitate (another songs Bono wished had made in onto All that) because...? Add Mission Impossible (I thought were were counting full band efforts), the output's still smaller. Yup, I don't include Passengers outside of Miss Sarajevo and Your blue room. I remember reading that Edge quote how he and Bono specifically set out to write two more U2 sounding songs during Passengers recording.

90s: 3 albums, 2 tours, and 3 new non album songs. (HMTMKMKM, MS, YBR)

00s: 2 albums, 2 tours, 5 new non album songs. (WITS, ES, HTBA, GBHF, Stateless) At the least, we're getting 1 new album and tour by 2010. (and the All that/Bomb sessions songs that came out on the Digital U2.) Forgot to add Mercy, too.

:hmm:
 
I forgot to mention that I was almost crucified by Axver...:| cause I didn´t agree with your opinion....:D

Fortunately, I´m a peaceful person and I´m here to share good opinions with U2 fans... I don´t usually take things so serious.... otherwise I would :crazy:


It´s rockn´roll babe !!! :bono:

Actually no, that's a different matter. You gave your opinion on something you, in your own words, had no clue about. That is what pissed Axver off, not your opinion. And I can honestly say he wasn't the only one pissed off about the BIG amount of people(not just you!) who totally did NOT understand the thread's topic and bashed US for trying to explain them what the actual topic there was. We're not musical snobs, but if someone asks if a song is good musically, there's no need to post what song you LIKE and what not. THAT is not a matter of opinion! It's a whole different thing!

It's perfectly fine to share your opinion here, and you're welcome to do so, but it would be wise to see when is the right moment for your opinion and when is not. I see plenty of threads where I think up a reply, and don't post it in the end. Because it's not worth it, or because it doesn't add anything to the thread. Or sometimes when I view a thread, and I don't have a clue what it's about, I don't reply, because I don't feel like I belong to that thread. I stay out of that.

There's a difference between facts and opinions, and sometimes it's hard to see. But when it's obviously to see the difference, please try to see it and respect that difference.
 
New as in previously unreleased material, but ok, let's leave out all the JT re-worked songs. Wave of sorrow also had Bono writing the lyric, BTW.

The Best of new songs, yes, they're a part of their 00's output. Nice try.

Ground beneath her feet and Stateless were originally going to be on All that... but the band vetoed Bono. MDH soundtrack came out in early 2000.

Tourist: Salome tapes are comparable to Flower child, Smile, Love you like mad and Levitate (another songs Bono wished had made in onto All that) because...? Add Mission Impossible (I thought were were counting full band efforts), the output's still smaller. Yup, I don't include Passengers outside of Miss Sarajevo and Your blue room. I remember reading that Edge quote how he and Bono specifically set out to write two more U2 sounding songs during Passengers recording.

90s: 3 albums, 2 tours, and 3 new non album songs. (HMTMKMKM, MS, YBR)

00s: 2 albums, 2 tours, 5 new non album songs. (WITS, ES, HTBA, GBHF, Stateless) At the least, we're getting 1 new album and tour by 2010. (and the All that/Bomb sessions songs that came out on the Digital U2.) Forgot to add Mercy, too.

:hmm:

I hope everyone else sees through your weak arguments as much as I do.

First of all, I think it's odd that you're trying to include "new" songs from compliations, but don't seem to want to include b-sides. Because from where I'm looking, the 90's have the 00's beat pretty bad on that count. To me there's no difference--neither were considered album worthy but the songs have been officially releasedl, and shouldn't be overlooked. And you even added Mercy, which doesn't even officially exist! Let's compare, not including covers:

90's
Alex Descends into Hell...
Salome
Lady With the Spinning Head
Where Did It All Go Wrong
I'm Not Your Baby
North and South of the River
Holy Joe
Slow Dancing
One Shot of Happy

00's
Always
Summer Rain
Big Girls Are Best
Are You Gonna Wait Forever?

Also, I know when the M$H soundtrack came out; my point was that if the movie premiered in Feb of '00, and Wenders had included the song in the film (as well as shot a video for it on set), the odds are that it was recorded and completed probably in mid '99. If you want to go by release date, so be it.

Last, I don't give a shit what Bono and Edge said about Passengers. Aren't we talking about productivity in the first place? Bottom line is that they DID write, record, and release music that should be included. This isn't about what the hell to label it as.

For once in your life, could you have a discussion without deliberately omitting things that disprove your position? Because you come off very foolish when you do so, and this is like chronic behavior for you. You're so defensive about this decade in U2's career (or have such a huge vendetta against the 90's) that you're totally irrational about it. Do yourself a favor and stay out of things you aren't mentally prepared to discuss like an adult.
 
I hope everyone else sees through your weak arguments as much as I do.

First of all, I think it's odd that you're trying to include "new" songs from compliations, but don't seem to want to include b-sides. Because from where I'm looking, the 90's have the 00's beat pretty bad on that count. To me there's no difference--neither were considered album worthy but the songs have been officially releasedl, and shouldn't be overlooked. And you even added Mercy, which doesn't even officially exist! Let's compare, not including covers:

90's
Alex Descends into Hell...
Salome
Lady With the Spinning Head
Where Did It All Go Wrong
I'm Not Your Baby
North and South of the River
Holy Joe
Slow Dancing
One Shot of Happy

00's
Always
Summer Rain
Big Girls Are Best
Are You Gonna Wait Forever?

Also, I know when the M$H soundtrack came out; my point was that if the movie premiered in Feb of '00, and Wenders had included the song in the film (as well as shot a video for it on set), the odds are that it was recorded and completed probably in mid '99. If you want to go by release date, so be it.

Last, I don't give a shit what Bono and Edge said about Passengers. Aren't we talking about productivity in the first place? Bottom line is that they DID write, record, and release music that should be included. This isn't about what the hell to label it as.

For once in your life, could you have a discussion without deliberately omitting things that disprove your position? Because you come off very foolish when you do so, and this is like chronic behavior for you. You're so defensive about this decade in U2's career (or have such a huge vendetta against the 90's) that you're totally irrational about it. Do yourself a favor and stay out of things you aren't mentally prepared to discuss like an adult.

Oh no! Someone's gonna get reported.
 
For once in your life, could you have a discussion without deliberately omitting things that disprove your position? Because you come off very foolish when you do so, and this is like chronic behavior for you. You're so defensive about this decade in U2's career (or have such a huge vendetta against the 90's) that you're totally irrational about it. Do yourself a favor and stay out of things you aren't mentally prepared to discuss like an adult.

:corn::corn::corn::D:D:corn::corn:
 
Oh no! Someone's gonna get reported.

I'm not name-calling here. Anyone that frequents this forum will recognize the broken record I'm referring to, which to me is glorified trolling--posting something you know isn't true just to get a rise out of people.

And not to sound self-important, but someone has to defend the truth. Harshly, if necessary.
 
90's
Alex Descends into Hell...
Salome
Lady With the Spinning Head
Where Did It All Go Wrong
I'm Not Your Baby
North and South of the River
Holy Joe
Slow Dancing
One Shot of Happy

00's
Always
Summer Rain
Big Girls Are Best
Are You Gonna Wait Forever?

Also, I know when the M$H soundtrack came out; my point was that if the movie premiered in Feb of '00, and Wenders had included the song in the film (as well as shot a video for it on set), the odds are that it was recorded and completed probably in mid '99. If you want to go by release date, so be it.
.

Technically Big girls are best should be in the 90s songs, since it was written when Ali was pregnant with their first boy, who was born in 99.
The other point is it's Two shots of happy, one shot of sad.

The 90s win for the sole fact of LWTSH! :rockon:
 
I hope everyone else sees through your weak arguments as much as I do.

First of all, I think it's odd that you're trying to include "new" songs from compliations, but don't seem to want to include b-sides. Because from where I'm looking, the 90's have the 00's beat pretty bad on that count. To me there's no difference--neither were considered album worthy but the songs have been officially releasedl, and shouldn't be overlooked. And you even added Mercy, which doesn't even officially exist! Let's compare, not including covers:

90's
Alex Descends into Hell...
Salome
Lady With the Spinning Head
Where Did It All Go Wrong
I'm Not Your Baby
North and South of the River
Holy Joe
Slow Dancing
One Shot of Happy

00's
Always
Summer Rain
Big Girls Are Best
Are You Gonna Wait Forever?

Also, I know when the M$H soundtrack came out; my point was that if the movie premiered in Feb of '00, and Wenders had included the song in the film (as well as shot a video for it on set), the odds are that it was recorded and completed probably in mid '99. If you want to go by release date, so be it.

Last, I don't give a shit what Bono and Edge said about Passengers. Aren't we talking about productivity in the first place? Bottom line is that they DID write, record, and release music that should be included. This isn't about what the hell to label it as.

For once in your life, could you have a discussion without deliberately omitting things that disprove your position? Because you come off very foolish when you do so, and this is like chronic behavior for you. You're so defensive about this decade in U2's career (or have such a huge vendetta against the 90's) that you're totally irrational about it. Do yourself a favor and stay out of things you aren't mentally prepared to discuss like an adult.

Which part of "More b-sides though" part did you miss in my post ?

Release date should be the measure, yes. I don't really care whether GBTF or Stateless were done by '98. They weren't even supposed to be on MDH originally.

We are talking about productivity from U2, not U2+Eno+Pavarotti+whoever else was involved. 1) Eno had a far bigger role than U2 albums. 2) They did not call or release it under the name U2, period. That's reason enough why it should be called a side project and not a U2 album.

You're omitting things that disprove one's position : "I don't give a shit what Bono and Edge said about Passengers". That's too bad, that quote is still relevant.

That last paragraph is pure gold coming from someone that freaks out as much as you do on the subject of 90's U2. Very rational, too.
 
We are talking about productivity from U2, not U2+Eno+Pavarotti+whoever else was involved. 1) Eno had a far bigger role than U2 albums. 2) They did not call or release it under the name U2, period. That's reason enough why it should be called a side project and not a U2 album.

I was referring to the output of the individuals. Individuals make up both bands, and Mission Impossible soundtracks. :shrug: If you weren't including things like that, it's on you.

Plus, I'm not going by release date. Release date doesn't indicate productivity. Release date doesn't indicate when a song was written and/or recorded, for your information.

And as for new mixes on songs, I suppose that means Edge is still just as productive as ever as he's probably the only one really in on that. And I suppose Bono contributed to a couple projects, too. But I'll take a ton of b-sides by U2 or The Passengers over a Mary J. Blige cover.
 
Guys where comparing the band in there 30s with the band in there 40s. Who cares? These people have other interests, i.e. kids and Bono cavorting with 19 year olds. There productivity will decline as time goes on. Lets hope the new stuff is quality.

Oh and Galeongirl spot on about Lady With The Spinning Head. Best song ever!
 
Plus, I'm not going by release date. Release date doesn't indicate productivity. Release date doesn't indicate when a song was written and/or recorded, for your information.
it's not that I disagree with you, but I have never seen this approach over here before
since this would mean that the praise this forum heaps on 90s U2 includes All that you can't ... it makes me a happy bunny though

it makes it all a tad confusing for me
because I saw Slow Dancing mentioned as a work of the 90s while I really thought this was written in the 80s and and Big Girls ... mentioned as a 00s production while this was probably a 90s product (which means it doesn't blemish the 00s output :up: )
and so on

I wonder whether Edge spent more time on Passengers than on all the remixes/remastering done in the 00s :hmm:
I think Adam & Larry probably spent more time on the U2 by U2 than on Passengers :up:


all in all their 90s productivity is greater than this decade's
(since the really only toured at the start and the end of the 90s with a large gap in between this is not that strange)
but the difference isn't that huge as some want to make it out to be
 
For once in your life, could you have a discussion without deliberately omitting things that disprove your position? Because you come off very foolish when you do so, and this is like chronic behavior for you. You're so defensive about this decade in U2's career (or have such a huge vendetta against the 90's) that you're totally irrational about it. Do yourself a favor and stay out of things you aren't mentally prepared to discuss like an adult.

Since you speak of being an adult...I'd hope that adults would be able to discuss differences of opinions without resorting to insulting people.

And not to sound self-important, but someone has to defend the truth. Harshly, if necessary.

If you want to go all "lazarus, defender of truth", I think people would take your opinion a lot more seriously if you could present it in a more mature fashion that didn't include being mean to other people.
 
Which part of "More b-sides though" part did you miss in my post ?

Release date should be the measure, yes. I don't really care whether GBTF or Stateless were done by '98. They weren't even supposed to be on MDH originally.

We are talking about productivity from U2, not U2+Eno+Pavarotti+whoever else was involved. 1) Eno had a far bigger role than U2 albums. 2) They did not call or release it under the name U2, period. That's reason enough why it should be called a side project and not a U2 album.

You're omitting things that disprove one's position : "I don't give a shit what Bono and Edge said about Passengers". That's too bad, that quote is still relevant.

That last paragraph is pure gold coming from someone that freaks out as much as you do on the subject of 90's U2. Very rational, too.

I don't see a mention of b-sides in your last post, maybe it was in an earlier one. But I find it telling that you felt compelled to list the "new" compilation songs in your above comparison, yet didn't do the same with the b-sides. Perhaps because the difference was overwhelming.

Again, this discussion sprung from a claim that the band had slowed down production wise. Recording an entire album of new material, shooting a video for it, etc. COUNTS as productivity. You want to disqualify an Adam & Larry side project, fine. But to leave out something the ENTIRE band worked on for a considerable period of time is to betray that you're being selective just to prove your point.

The M$H thing is just a side note. This doesn't hinge on one song; it hinges on trying to overlook an entire year's worth of work.

The reason Bono & Edge's quote doesn't matter is because all it does is try to classify the material. It's not a denial that they were working, being creative, etc. If the quote was "Yeah, were were rarely all there at the same time, people were going in and out, having personal time, etc." then maybe you'd have a point.

Since you speak of being an adult...I'd hope that adults would be able to discuss differences of opinions without resorting to insulting people.


If you want to go all "lazarus, defender of truth", I think people would take your opinion a lot more seriously if you could present it in a more mature fashion that didn't include being mean to other people.

I'm pretty sure my opinion is being taken more seriously than U2girl's. And that's all I really care about with regard to this specific discussion. I don't think telling someone they are being foolish or irrational is something an adult wouldn't say. I'm not name-calling. Consider it constructive criticism. It's a heated discussion, I don't know how much more toned-down it can be before it becomes neutered, where my disbelief and revulsion aren't even palpable.
 
What about all the songs Edge & Bono have already written for Spiderman? Does that count as output?

With that logic, COBL would count as a 90's track. They haven't been released to the public yet, so no, I wouldn't count them.
 
With that logic, COBL would count as a 90's track. They haven't been released to the public yet, so no, I wouldn't count them.

COBL wasn't a finished song in the 90's, however the Spiderman songs are completed and ready to be released next year.
 
One could also argue, though, that by the period of what you consider their greatest output - Zooropa/Passengers (correct me if I'm wrong) - Bono no longer held the view that music itself could affect change.

I would counter that this view came about much earlier. In the song "God Part II" Bono wrote,"I don't believe that Rock 'N Roll can really change the world." While there are several interpretations of this line, it suggests Bono's views of music revolutionizing one's thoughts were fading as early as 1988 (and I personally don't think he ever truly felt that way).

As for the rest, I don't think I'm quite as pessimistic about the potential for another masterpiece, but I essentially agree with what you're saying. Looking back at the past decade... if I'm honest my expectations for what U2 is capable of creating have lowered. That said, I will buy the new album the day it comes out and will listen to it incessantly for the first week or so, and would love for them to completely shatter my expectations.


I'm on the fence here.

First, I never felt any of U2's so-called masterpieces were flawless. While JT has some oustandingly elegant songs, much of the album sounds the same. While AB is brilliant, some lyrics are questionable and some passion is gone. I also acknowledge that some of U2's recent output is "safe", but I hear quite a bit of innovation there.

Then there's this whole "roots" thing.

What exactly are U2's "roots?" For every "The Fly",there is a "Fast Cars". For every "Mysterious Ways" there is a "Beautiful Day". Songs like "Mofo", which were unique for U2, were really U2's attempt at current European music at the time. Plus the recent output is similar to very early in U2's career ("Boy" and "October") where U2 seemed to focus more on the song, rather than the album. And from that perspective, it worked. But again I ask, what roots exactly? Because it seems that U2 have looked at all of their past and just updated it for the 21st century.

Some people like the lyrics and mood of earlier U2, but I don't feel it's appropriate for 45+ year old men to be screaming about the "injustice of the world". At that age, they've been around long enough to do something about it, not complain about it. That is, what works in one's twenties, doesn't in one's forties. Can any of you go back 15-20 yeasrs (if you are even that old!) and act the same way now as you did then? Beliefs, morals, values and views change. Bono (as well as the rest of U2) is more about action now and less about preaching.

While I appreciate Axver's perspective, to me, it's subjective. Every U2 era has gems and cubic zirconia - but which is which is personal. Bono's voice was brilliant on the Love Town tour, for example, but he often resorted to a operatic falsetto (the infamous "Kermit" voice) to hit notes (that he normally did with a full open-throat voice) and he had a lot of vocal problems. Gems or zirconia? Edge may have gone wild with the guitar at times, but that only made him sound more like many other rock guitarists. Gem or Zirconia? Axver hates "One", a song some consider one of the best ever written. Yet, I get chastised for not loving JT. Gems or zirconia?

Some may feel the recent U2 output is "safe" and not innovative enough. Yet, based on overall sales, accolades and tour success, one could argue that clearly the general public loves it - even if some diehards do not. Gems or zirconia?

With that in mind, I'm sure the new album will be the same. Maybe Axver will love it - will other diehards? Should U2 even care about public opinion? It's easy to say "no", but I say "yes". Whenever I work hard on something, I want others to see it and enjoy it. Heck, I wildly decorated for Halloween and I'm having two parties just so everyone can see my hard work! But some may still prefer a more personal U2. Nothing wrong with that, but is that what U2 wants?

So while I do agree U2 are at a crossroads, how they respond is tricky. And the bottom line is that it won't please everyone no matter what they make. After all, not everyone adores JT or AB.

All I hope is that U2's effort over these past 4+ years yields something truly inspirational. I don't need innovative - because really, what is out there musically that would not only "fit" U2, but is truly that different from everything else? Slow, safe, rocking, wild, roots, emulation or innovative - all are fine as it's all really about passion and inspiration. JT works because of it. AB works because of it. ATYCLB works because of it. Hopefully the next album does so again.
 
I would like to congratulate DoctorWho for the only non-egotistical post on this entire thread, and one of the few intelligent ones.

(Well, the first one was okay, too.)
 
I would like to congratulate DoctorWho for the only non-egotistical post on this entire thread, and one of the few intelligent ones.

(Well, the first one was okay, too.)

I wouldn't hand that award out yet, there's still this post:

I would like to congratulate DoctorWho for the only non-egotistical post on this entire thread, and one of the few intelligent ones.

(Well, the first one was okay, too.)
 
Tourist: release date is important as it's indicative of when their work is released, and via that you can measure productivity. And we're talking about U2 output, not individuals.

Lazarus: yes, the new songs on the Best of's. They count, as do the B-sides. So ?

There's plenty of reason to count Passengers as a side project, not a U2 album. Here's another one: half if not more of the entire thing are instrumentals. Which U2 album has done anything like that ?

As for Mercy, I mentioned it because it was part of Bomb as late as Sep/Ocb 2004 ( Blender article), Bono gave it away via that 13 song CD he gave to a member of this forum, and Bono and Edge both said they're working on it still. It was finished, mixed etc and ready to go in 2004. Now if the lyric or music changes significantly upon its release I'm ready to strike it. Otherwise it stays.
 
Tourist: release date is important as it's indicative of when their work is released, and via that you can measure productivity. And we're talking about U2 output, not individuals.

Maybe you're talking about the band. I'm talking about the individuals. And I'm truly sorry you can't understand how 4 members of a band and their longtime producer making an album in a collaborative effort somehow negates the productivity of the 4 band members during that period.

And about release date measuring productivity, that's all fucking bullshit. These days most big label artists finish their part of the album 6 months before it hits the record stores. And, of course, there's also the months spent mixing and mastering where the band needn't even be present.
 
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