U2 and Religion

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
You speak of love as if you're an expert in the field. If your experience of love is that of family and friends, then pardon my boldness but you're naive to think you've got it all figured out.
 
LemonMelon said:
But what's heroic about that? Was assassinating John Lennon heroic? Chapman felt that it was the right thing to do, and it was pretty damn rebellious, you have to admit. No, Lucifer was a rebel acting in selfishness; the very last thing you look for in a hero. A hero does things because they need to be done for the good of everyone else, not just the one taking action.



Because that's not how the world operates. That's not how people operate. People will use you and take advantage of your kindness, and they will continue on in life in even worse shape than they were before they met you. I believe that true love is making the people that you meet better human beings than they were previously, regardless of how it makes you appear, or how they treat you. That is unselfish love for your fellow man.
Click to expand...

No a hero does great things for their own personal needs. Others just sometimes benefit.

You underestimate the human race. You do not see the things I see in all of us.
 
Screwtape2 said:
No a hero does great things for their own personal needs. Others just sometimes benefit.

You underestimate the human race. You do not see the things I see in all of us.
Click to expand...

Then I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

Conversation = ended.
 
Diemen said:
You speak of love as if you're an expert in the field. If your experience of love is that of family and friends, then pardon my boldness but you're naive to think you've got it all figured out.
Click to expand...

Did you not listen to me when I said I have been in love? Actual romantic love. I do consider myself an expert in the field of its effects and power.
 
Diemen said:
You speak of love as if you're an expert in the field. If your experience of love is that of family and friends, then pardon my boldness but you're naive to think you've got it all figured out.
Click to expand...

I'm no more experienced than Screwy on these things, and I'm by no means an expert, but I do know what people are like, and I've learned that expecting them to look out for your best interest at all times is a poor idea.
 
Screwtape2 said:
Did you not listen to me when I said I have been in love? Actual romantic love. I do consider myself an expert in the field of its effects and power.
Click to expand...

But you've admitted to never having been in a relationship before. Was this romantic love one-sided?

I don't want to appear as if I'm out to attack your every position, but declaring yourself an expert in the field of love when you've admittedly never been in a relationship, have declared that you don't think you ever will be and are as young as you are is beyond naivete and going well into arrogance and egotism.
 
LemonMelon said:
I'm no more experienced than Screwy on these things, and I'm by no means an expert, but I do know what people are like, and I've learned that expecting them to look out for your best interest at all times is a poor idea.
Click to expand...

Well, dealing with reality rather than what you'd like reality to be usually helps in coming to that conclusion.
 
Screwtape2 said:
It is just what I take away from the grand story the bible tells. It is where the story is going but the writers put spreading their beliefs over the eventuality. It is like how Einstein set up the science and equations but couldn't except that the universe wasn't constant because it went against what he believed. Jesus doesn't get martyred and be like "we're cool." Humanity in heaven changes everything.
Click to expand...


Matter of subjectivity, but I think Screwtape's interpretation makes a better story literary-wise.:up:
 
Thanks Screw for clarifying your perspective in the last page. I still don't agree with you, but I understand where you're coming from. In all seriousness though, I would encourage you to read the New T and the later books of the Old T to find a different picture of God than what I'm afraid you've been shown.

I think the reason we're having this discussion is legitimate -- the way that God is portrayed throughout the scriptures changes a great deal. But here's my perspective: this does not tell us of the changes in the heart, values, wisdom, intentions, etc, of God throughout history, but that of mankind. The first half does often describe God as wrathful, spiteful, and with very little consistancy. But then I don't believe that humans (even those writing the scriptures) have always (or ever) understood God and the world they were living in. The way that people have viewed the world, natural disaster, death, etc. has changed enormously over time, and I see this reflected in the portrayals of events in the Bible. Basically I recognize the human influences on certain elements of the writing. This is true for any religious text, in my view. I hold to the wisdom that was acquired as time went on in Biblical times, and ultimately when God sent his Son to give us the truth about Him and the Kingdom of Heaven.

I really hope you'll read more into this and see that there's another side to it. I read that you've been forced to go to church before in your life? Was it a sort of "fire and brimstone", fear-mongering type of establishment? If so, I can really sympathize with you and I can understand how you could come to these conclusions. I just again hope that there's another way to see everything of faith. Bono is not of faith out of fear, and nor am I.
 
I´ll say a couple of things and I hope I make sense :D

1. I see God like a father, sometimes, they have to be severe with you even if you don´t understand why :D, try to think like if humans weren´t the most perfect and wise beens in the universe :happy: , maybe God knows something we don´t

2. Why so many dead people? according with our beliefs the true life is after dead, so if you die here on earth it really doesn´t matter, because this life is just a transition :D


3. Above all, I am catholic, not because my parents were and I was raised in this tradition (maybe if my parents were Jewish or something I would be Jewish :D ), I am catholic because of the feelings I have, I feel great beeing a Catholic, I feel like it is rigth is like a "instinct"? that I´m doing OK


4. I´m trying to figure out POP lyrics :huh: OMG

Peace :hug:


PS: I´m watching right now a program about miracles in discovery :ohmy::D:love:
 
Rosebud said:
I really hope you'll read more into this and see that there's another side to it. I read that you've been forced to go to church before in your life? Was it a sort of "fire and brimstone", fear-mongering type of establishment? If so, I can really sympathize with you and I can understand how you could come to these conclusions. I just again hope that there's another way to see everything of faith. Bono is not of faith out of fear, and nor am I.
Click to expand...

I was sort of forced to go out of guilt. My parents took me starting at a young age like most people. I never believed or had faith. As I got older it sort of became a matter of them wanting to go but not without me. My response would be :sigh: I'll go with you. The church itself was uber-political.

I think for people who really have a grasp of their faith like Bono it isn't based on fear. Fear comes into play when you look to science and have to really think for yourself about the universe. It is much easier to have something spelled out for you. You can have faith in a higher power but you can't believe the Bible is factual. Science has ruled that out. The faith itself is great in my book though. :up:
 
Screwtape2 said:
I was sort of forced to go out of guilt. My parents took me starting at a young age like most people. I never believed or had faith. As I got older it sort of became a matter of them wanting to go but not without me. My response would be :sigh: I'll go with you. The church itself was uber-political.

I think for people who really have a grasp of their faith like Bono it isn't based on fear. Fear comes into play when you look to science and have to really think for yourself about the universe. It is much easier to have something spelled out for you. You can have faith in a higher power but you can't believe the Bible is factual. Science has ruled that out. The faith itself is great in my book though. :up:
Click to expand...

I completely understand what you're saying. And I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences with church early on. That's really terrible. I wasn't raised with religion because both my parents had experiences like yours when they were young. I've only come to spirituality and faith recently, but I still (like Bono) dislike "religion". Most people can't seem to figure me out, but it's really just that I see "faith" and "religion" as completely different things. I believe that God is a universal spirit of love and logic, and I'm not going to let crazy religious nuts lead me otherwise.

Thanks for this discussion by the way. I wish you all the best.
 
Rosebud said:
Most people can't seem to figure me out, but it's really just that I see "faith" and "religion" as completely different things.
Click to expand...

:up:

I wouldn't consider the discussion we had in here in any way religious. It all had to do with belief systems, or lack thereof.
 
Screwtape2 said:
In the bible, God is the villain. God is a terrible creature. Lucifer and Jesus are the heroes. Jesus is Zeus. He is meant to overthrow the father. Jesus's taste of humanity will lead him to destroy the father who himself would destroy the same humanity if only to be worshipped by all. That is how the story is meant to go. In the end, God is dead and humanity lives on.
Click to expand...

Very interesting, twisted view of the Bible. I guess you can make up whatever you want, but what you are saying cannot be found in the Hebrew Sciptures, or the New Testament. I'm sure this is futile to actually show you in scripture what Jesus said when you say things like "that is how the story meant to go." (Just out of curiosity, how do you know how the story was meant to go?)

John 14:18-21, 23-24
18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.


I'm not going to post all the other passages here, but you can read John 5,6, 8, 10, and 12. In all of which Jesus makes it perfectly clear everything He does and says is in perfect accord with the Father.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

dont_turn_around
Hello everyone!
Replies
1
Views
122
Headache in a Suitcase
Headache in a Suitcase
dan_smee
I listened to No Line on the Horizon right through tonight for the first time in about 10 years…
2
Replies
55
Views
2K
cobl04
cobl04
cobl04
Kiss the Future documentary
Replies
11
Views
3K
MrsSpringsteen
MrsSpringsteen
O
Better late than never “they” say…
Replies
1
Views
268
Headache in a Suitcase
Headache in a Suitcase
dan_smee
U2 Live From Sphere - Final Show SiriusXM stream
2
Replies
38
Views
1K
Achtung Ya'll
A

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom