u2 and being original

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j72

The Fly
Joined
Nov 26, 2011
Messages
83
Hi Folks

I enjoyed reading a while back the thread about how original Achtung Baby was and perhaps u2 were in general. I found myself with lots of different thoughts and feelings about this and popped in a little of my two pence/cents etc of views for whatever they were worth.

This seemed to me such a subjective thing and i was alternately (occasionally) annoyed as well as amused, fascinated and appreciative of posts that looked in detail at this. I personally can never completely buy the 'accepted' wisdom of those who 'know' their music history, e.g. journalists or lay folk and say This Is how it is... IRREFUTABLE TRUTH.

I guess i now return to my point that when those First Notes are struck and what can happen to each and every individual who comes ALIVE to it and has never been moved in quite SUCH a way, then surely THAT is original. only Bono can sing quite the way he does, only Edge and the rest can strike the notes and soul in their way as other bands do theirs.

I omit here of course bands/singers who seek to copy rather than strive to their own groove and spirit. The latter may still sound like others in some way of course but... Don't know if this means much to anybody to respond or not? i guess it does to me, in a pretty heartfelt way.
 
...when those First Notes are struck and what can happen to each and every individual who comes ALIVE to it and has never been moved in quite SUCH a way, then surely THAT is original. only Bono can sing quite the way he does, only Edge and the rest can strike the notes and soul in their way as other bands do theirs.
I think you make a good point about originality here -- one that often is forgotten in silly, half-baked arguments over whose opinion outweighs whose: that any unique collection of musicians, playing together, is inherently original. No one else on earth is the same as those particular musicians.

No doubt one of the reasons U2 connected deeply with many educated, socially-conscious young people in the 1980s was their pureness of sound and spirit. Unlike the trend of the 1980s, U2's whole ethos was not about big hair, shoulder pads, showy videos, or image in general -- their heart-on-the-sleeve approach was honest and open. (They also weren't musically snobby like indie bands.) I think people responded to the pure sound of U2 -- the noise those 4 guys make when they play together.

While Achtung Baby was somewhat of a departure in sound and style (a larger one in image), it maintained, so I think, "the U2 natural sound".

Yet for reasons I can't explain, Zooropa (despite its heavy production) also maintains that sound, whereas Pop (despite having more conventional rock songs than Zooropa) doesn't. I think the relative "failure" of Pop was partly because the natural sound of U2 -- the very unique sound those 4 guys in a room make -- was lost.

The dictates of modern music culture influence "serious" bands to try to grow and change, and yet that notion didn't really exist prior to the late 1960s, and still wasn't very common for years after that. As j72 aptly points out, any unique combo of musicans playing together should always have their own sound. (The complication, perhaps, is that some combos naturally have a more unique sound playing together than some other combos do.) Nevertheless, as long as U2 sound like U2, then they sound like no one else.
 
I agree with you Panther. 1980's U2 was all about how natural, and meaningful music could be compared to the typical 80's 'trend' back then. I believe they felt that because R&H wasn't as well received as it could have been, they decided to shift gears and drift into the mainstream. Not that that was a bad thing on their part by any means, if anything it made them bigger then they already were.

Although by sliding into mainstream they still remained original and true to what they started out as, and that was and is, a rare gift to have. I'm not quite sure why that had to go out of the window with Pop, and for them to regain it with ATYCLB and HTDAAB goes to show you one 'failure' doesn't have to mark your worth as a truly original band.
 
I agree with you Panther. 1980's U2 was all about how natural, and meaningful music could be compared to the typical 80's 'trend' back then. I believe they felt that because R&H wasn't as well received as it could have been, they decided to shift gears and drift into the mainstream.
Okay, but how much more "mainstream" could they have gotten than they were in the late 80s? After R&H, their two recent albums had shifted tens of millions and been enormous #1 hits in the world's most conservative music market, the USA.

You seem to suggest that Achtung Baby represented a move towards the mainstream, if I understand you correctly...? That's a rather unusual opinion.
 
Thanks for your posts folks, i really enjoyed what you said about originality and then the POP album. Zooropa still felt to me very u2, pop didn't. There are still aspects from this album i like and i tried so hard and wanted to be 'captivated' and fall in love with the album. But i guess that forced effort also catches the main aspect of the album for me (and i respect that it has a fair few admirers) the whole album felt just that FORCED AND CONTRIVED. As a result i guess originality and purity of sound and spirit you allude to was lost to a fair extent.

This si not to say there are some songs such as If you wear.., GONE and then MOFO and PLEASE live etc that do get to me, it's just a frustration that for me those songs could be more. i wonder if the band ever will rerecord the album as Bono has talked about or?

Thanks for your post too Flybabe, i am also interested if you respond to what Panther said about your comment on Achtung Baby and your angle on that
 
Okay, but how much more "mainstream" could they have gotten than they were in the late 80s? After R&H, their two recent albums had shifted tens of millions and been enormous #1 hits in the world's most conservative music market, the USA.

You seem to suggest that Achtung Baby represented a move towards the mainstream, if I understand you correctly...? That's a rather unusual opinion.

What I mean by them moving towards the 'mainstream', was the way they presented themselves, not music wise. They tried to meld their look with what was popular, and around JT and R&H they had what seemed like their own look. That is what I was trying to get at, sorry if it came across the wrong way.
 
Ah i get what you mean about the look Flybabe, fantastic it was too, in my opinion. Rivaled perhaps only by Mcphisto. One of my favourite pieces of imagery from the Zoo Tv tour is Bono rising up siloutted as The Fly, nonchalantly throwing his cigarette, wonderfully ridiculous Nazi gooseteps and launching into the beautiful wall of noise that is Zoo station. Exhiliriating, wonderfully dismissive and funny all in one succinct sweep.

I do wonder with respect though Panther) a little though about the big hair thing and big flouncy shirts of the time thing to boot. I think though in the main they did keep away from much of the fashion thing what i have just mentioned complete with much hair preening by Bono is well in evidence on the otherwise wonderful bad performance at Live Aid and the Love town tour such as the one at The Point.

The music primarily is the thing that matters though and much as i like some of their music simple minds and Jim Kerr sespecially were a far more extreme example of dodgy eighties fashion such as him wearing dodgy leggings/leotards circa 1985. Me? well of course i've always looked ridiculous and happy to be so.. Cheers folks
 
The other day, I heard the Alarm's "Strength" on the radio.

I hadn't heard this song in ages. And I was stunned at how much the song was like "I Will Follow". While the lyrics and singing are different, the guitar and music were very similar. The song even had that "slow part" in the middle that "I Will Follow" has.

Now, I have no problem with the similarities overall - the song is different enough to get out of the realm of lawsuits. But given that "I Will Follow" was released 5 years prior to "Strength", it suggests to me how U2's influence was already present.

I think bands like INXS, REM and U2 all inspired and influenced each other. Some of what's on AB clearly rings of late 80's INXS, IMO. Some of U2's later sounds, especially those on ATYCLB, have REM influences (Stipe even said he wished he wrote "Beautiful Day"). U2 often admits influences from 70's version of "alternative" and the punk/post-punk scene on their early sounds. And, as we all know, AB and "Pop" were influenced by other music at their respective times (industrial and techno being the dominant).

So what makes any sound unique? First, it's U2's basic sound. The sound those four men create is unlike other artists. Madonna, for example, is hardly the first artist with dance songs. But it's her unique style that set her apart. When disco music was considered "dead", Michael Jackson released several albums full of dance and disco influences - one of which is the best selling album of all time! It's Jackson's unique style that helped him stand out. U2's JT is more of a folksy album - but U2's spin on that folk-rock sound made it a classic.

U2 found a way to incorporate their own sound into what was influencing them at the time. Add in lyrics and topics that were relevant to them, and there's a brilliant album.

In other words, it's tough to find something that's truly original - start to finish - in today's world. We are always building on top of someone else's work. What makes it stand out is how different an item is from everything else. Some of that can be due to timing as well. AB stood out against the grunge world - yet also nicely worked within it. JT stood out against the pop and metal hair bands of the time, but was still accessible and radio-friendly.
 
LOVED this post Doctor Who, as well as quote at bottom of page, on the go as it were tonight but look forward to absorbing this post and coming back to it soon when i have more time-Thanks a lot
 
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