Typical U2 Hater List (feel free to add)

[gvox]

your reaction has made my point exactly. Think how you feel about Bush - many feel that way about Bono and would laugh at the idea he is a nice guy and say "NEXT!".
Bono, for the record, seems full of praise for him as a person.

Nice try. Bono wasn't full of praise for Bush as a person. He praised him specifically with regards to Africa. He also acknowledged that his bandmates couldn't stand the thought of him meeting with who they thought was the devil (I'm loosely paraphrasing, but it was pretty close to that sort of statement). In the very statement where he praised what Bush did with regards to Africa while in office, he also preceded the praise by saying that Bush was a person one could have arguments or problems with on various levels.

My feelings on Bush are based on historical and documented fact. There's nothing knee-jerk, blind, or irrational about it. There isn't even hatred, per se, just a burning desire to see him duly prosecuted as the criminal he is.

Putting Bush and Bono together in the same sentence in this context is an insult to Bono. Bush has blood on his hands. Bono does not. Period.

 

[WideAwakeInNZ]

Nice try. Bono wasn't full of praise for Bush as a person. He praised him specifically with regards to Africa. He also acknowledged that his bandmates couldn't stand the thought of him meeting with who they thought was the devil (I'm loosely paraphrasing, but it was pretty close to that sort of statement). In the very statement where he praised what Bush did with regards to Africa while in office, he also preceded the praise by saying that Bush was a person one could have arguments or problems with on various levels.

My feelings on Bush are based on historical and documented fact. There's nothing knee-jerk, blind, or irrational about it. There isn't even hatred, per se, just a burning desire to see him duly prosecuted as the criminal he is.

Putting Bush and Bono together in the same sentence in this context is an insult to Bono. Bush has blood on his hands. Bono does not. Period.

It came across to me like Bono liked and got on well Bush, despite obvious political differences. But you probs know more. The (many) different levels they would disagree on would include his policy's. I don't think the friction would be caused by the fact Bono thinks Bush isn't nice. You can disagree with someone on everything and be a nice guy.

I was not comparing Bush's foreign policy to Bono's charity work, rather the hatred some people have for the both them often without reason. I mean come on - I've heard 13 year olds rant on about Bush! I can see you do have your reasons about how you feel, but you can surely see, in many people there is just a gut hatred - and little else. A lot of people feel this way about Bono too - a lot of the time it is like a backup as to why they don't like U2's music. When you ask some people whether they like U2 the response is "I just can 't stand Bono!" even if they have not listened!

 

[gvox]

I think your interpretation is a little generous and your analogy flawed because there are many many sound reasons to dislike Bush, and very few sound reasons to dislike Bono (outside personality issues), it's not even a fair comparison. People don't "hate Bush without reason" - they hate him because of what he, his father, and their cronies have done to this world!

At 13 I knew enough about the world to know who to put on blast for crimes against humanity.

 

[WideAwakeInNZ]

I think your interpretation is a little generous and your analogy flawed because there are many many sound reasons to dislike Bush, and very few sound reasons to dislike Bono (outside personality issues), it's not even a fair comparison. People don't "hate Bush without reason" - they hate him because of what he, his father, and their cronies have done to this world!

At 13 I knew enough about the world to know who to put on blast for crimes against humanity.

I was talking primarily about personality - people don't just hate Bush's policies - they hate HIM. you do not hate him without reason, but others do. There is good reason to dislike Bush and some to dislike Bono. I was specifically talking about those who have a blind passionate hate - of which there is much of for both. Whether there be good reason or not is irrelevant to some people.

Lol, I'm not too sure if most 13 year olds would be able to tell you what a crime against humanity is!
I definitely ain't no Bush fan, if I was a US citizen in 2004 I know I would not have voted for him and after 8 years he had left a huge mess for the world - but I from what I gather from watching him is that he is a genuinely nice guy - I don't have to like anything he did to think that.

Anyway, back to U2.... haha I think we are a bit off-topic!

 

[gvox]

I hate to belabor the point, but here is a truism I didn't think I'd have to point out:

Genuinely nice guys don't do the things that these assholes did. The nice guy part is the act. The real person is revealed by their actions and what they perpetuate and support.

 

[WideAwakeInNZ]

I hate to belabor the point, but here is a truism I didn't think I'd have to point out:

Genuinely nice guys don't do the things that these assholes did. The nice guy part is the act. The real person is revealed by their actions and what they perpetuate and support.

OK, well I don't think whether you do something right constitutes if you are a nice guy or not. I know I do the wrong things a lot of the time and I don't think that makes me any less of a nice person.
Agree to disagree I think! I pledge my next post to be U2 related!!

 

[gvox]

Agree to disagree I think!

We can probably manage that

 

[Nick66]

I hate to belabor the point, but here is a truism I didn't think I'd have to point out:

Genuinely nice guys don't do the things that these assholes did. The nice guy part is the act. The real person is revealed by their actions and what they perpetuate and support.

Well, I'm no Bush fan, but Bono did credit him for tripling aid to Africa and potentially saving hundreds of thousands of lives there. So that's an "action that (Bush) perpetuates and supports" that you could say revealed his "true" character as well. Those are certainly things Bush didn't have to do, nor as a Republican, no one really would have expected him to do.

And Bono has gone out of his way to praise Bush even when he no longer had to, long after Bush left office, as he did on Letterman last year.

I'm not saying the guys are cozy or best friends...Bono did after all apparently try to dodge a photo-op hug from Bush at the height of Bush's unpopularity, probably b/c Edge or Larry would have killed Bono if he got photographed w/ the guy....but I think his comments over the years clearly reveal some level of respect and affection for the man. And Bono did later apologize for the hug snub, and at one point said something (about Bush) like "his heart is in the right place".

Things, or people, aren't as B&W as you make them out to be here.

 

[gvox]

Well thats an interestingly revisionist spin. Bono's praise was more for America in general on that issue, in the comtext of a discussion about his campaign not "going out o his way" for Bush.. and he pointed out that Bush should get "some credit" and showed "leadership". If anything, Ive always found his comments on Bush well guarded and with qualifiers. Its hardly been an affectionate heaping on of praise, thats for sure.

If you want to believe that Bush's incredibly politically expedient thing he did re Africa overshadows all his other atrocities, go right on ahead. Bono even basically rebuked him in public for going back on those same African initiatives!

 

[Achtung11]

Since it's relevant to the last few posts, here are some quotes by Bono about Bush from the 2005 Rolling Stone interview:

WENNER: You’re been getting criticized for making a deal with Bush. There’s cynicism about that, that maybe you’ve made a deal with the devil here.

BONO: First of all, I don’t support any president, whether from the left or from the right. I support, or do not support, what they do in the area that we are discussing. I can’t criticize a man who has doubled, tripled aid to Africa – especially after we asked him to, and he said yes. To get along with someone, you don’t have to agree on everything, but just one thing if it’s important enough.

WENNER: Do you feel now you can’t criticize him on the war in Iraq?

BONO: Everyone in the administration knows how I feel about the war in Iraq. Everyone. I criticize it to Tony Blair as well. Do I campaign against the war in Iraq? No.

WENNER: Why not?

BONO: That’s the compromise. I feel I gave that up when I started to work for other people whom I will never meet, those 180,000 people in Africa who now owe their lives to American money, which paid for these lifesaving drugs. I work for them. If me not shooting my mouth off about the war in Iraq is the price I pay, then I’m prepared to pay it. Others have been eloquent on this issue.

WENNER: Does it frustrate you not to be able to say what you think?

BONO: I’m a big-mouthed Irish rock star; of course it frustrates me. Look, I don’t bring the subject up, but when it does come up, I’ve been very clear.
There’s a link: The Americans are trying to explain to devout believers in Islam that the U.S. is a benign force in the world, and it’s very difficult after Shock and Awe. I say you could start in Africa, it’s forty percent Muslim. Be a benign force there. Spreading democracy is a noble pursuit, but if they win the battle and lose the war by putting people off democracy, it’s been too expensive, as far as I’m concerned.

Jann S. Wenner | Archives | The Rolling Stone Interview: Bono

From what it seems like, Bono hates Bush because of Iraq, but he doesn't want to say anything in public about the man who tripled aid to Africa. It's understandable.

 

[Achtung11]

As far as hating the policies or hating the person goes, I don't think there is anything wrong with hating Bush as a person because he brought us into a war that was unnecessary, and he was dishonest about it from beginning to end. It's much more than about simple policies or right or left beliefs. Bush and Cheney are responsible for the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, and the broken lives of millions. That is enough reason to hate a person.

 

[MBfan]

Foreign wars (who went into Libya without Congressional approval?), G-Bay, Patriot Act, etc. haven't stopped even with the administration change and it will be carried out by the next ten presidents in the current partisan system. He was a terrible preisdent, but is Bush really any different from Johnson, Obama and the others?

 

[Nick66]

Well thats an interestingly revisionist spin. Bono's praise was more for America in general on that issue, in the comtext of a discussion about his campaign not "going out o his way" for Bush.. and he pointed out that Bush should get "some credit" and showed "leadership". If anything, Ive always found his comments on Bush well guarded and with qualifiers. Its hardly been an affectionate heaping on of praise, thats for sure.

If you want to believe that Bush's incredibly politically expedient thing he did re Africa overshadows all his other atrocities, go right on ahead. Bono even basically rebuked him in public for going back on those same African initiatives!

Well, the question was whether Bono like and praised Bush as a person. I think you're engaging in a bit of revisionist history yourself...perhaps you don't want to admit that someone you like and admire likes some you despise.

But we've gotten your take on it. Let's see what Bono has so say on it. From Michka Assayas' book:

BONO: I was in a photo with President Bush because he’d put $10 billion over three years on the table in a breakthrough increase in foreign assistance called the Millennium Challenge. I had just got back from accompanying the president as he announced this at the Inter-American Development Bank.
I kept my face straight as we passed the press corps, but the peace sign was pretty funny. He thought so, too. Keeping his face straight, he whispered, “There goes a front page somewhere: Irish rock star with the Toxic Texan.”
I think the swagger and the cowboy boots come with some humour. He is a funny guy. Even on the way to the bank he was taking the piss. The bulletproof motorcade is speeding through the streets of the capital with people waving at the leader of the free world, and him waving back.

I say: “You’re pretty popular here!”

He goes: “It wasn’t always so . . .” — Oh really? — “Yeah. When I first came to this town, people used to wave at me with one finger. Now, they found another three fingers and a thumb.”

MA:So you liked this man?

BONO: Yes. As a man, I believed him when he said he was moved to also do something about the Aids pandemic. I believed him. Listen, I couldn’t come from a more different place, politically, socially, geographically. I had to make a leap of faith to sit there. He didn’t have to have me there at all. But you don’t have to be harmonious on everything — just one thing — to get along with someone.

MA:…What was your gut feeling the first time you came face to face with President Bush?

BONO: He was very funny and quick. Just quick-witted. With him, I got pretty quickly to the point, and the point was an unarguable one — that 6,500 people dying every day of a preventable and treatable disease [Aids] would not be acceptable anywhere else in the world other than Africa, and that before God and history this was a kind of racism that was unacceptable.
And he agreed: “Yeah, it’s unacceptable.” He said: “In fact, it’s a kind of genocide.”

He used the word “genocide”, which I took to imply our complicity in this, which I absolutely agree with. Later, his staff tried to take the edge off the word. But in the Rose Garden there was press, and I already had used the word.
He really helped us in using that word. He knew it was hyperbole, but it was effective. We get on very well. I couldn’t come from a more different place. We disagree on so many things. But he was moved by my account of what was happening in Africa. He was engaged.

I think, when I’m sitting two feet from someone, I could tell if this was just politics. This was personal. I think, for all the swagger, this Texan thing, he has a religious instinct that keeps him humble.

MA: You mean that right-wing fundamentalist neocon scary stuff?

BONO: Actually, he’s a Methodist. It has to be said that most of the people in the cabinet are not religious extremists.

MA: But you must have disagreed with him at some point.

BONO: He banged the table at me once, when I was ranting at him about the ARVs [Aids drugs] not getting out quick enough. I’m Irish. When we get excited we don’t pause for breath, no full stops or commas. He banged the table to ask me to let him reply. He smilingly reminded me he was the president. It was a heated debate. I was very impressed that he could get so passionate. And, let’s face it, tolerating an Irish rock star is not a necessity of his office.

Yeah, really sounds like Bono hates the guy. In fact, there's a lot of praise for Bush (to use your term) as a person in there. The interviewer even seems to really try to get some kind of criticism out of Bono w/the last question, and he doesn't bite, and in fact takes the opportunity to compliment Bush again.

And as far as Bono praising "America" in general rather than Bush, well there's this:

"And I can say this without fear of criticism, that without the leadership of President Bush, those numbers (helping save five million lives in Africa) would not be there"

Ooops.

That's just one example. A simple Google search will reveal multiple times that Bono singled out Bush for praise, specifically, by name, and often on a personal basis.

And those who are saying Bono "hated Bush" (I'm not saying you said this) because of Iraq really don't have anything to back that up. Bono surely disagreed w/the war itself, and likely hated it, but there's nothing to indicate he hated Bush himself. This is others projecting their own feelings for Bush onto Bono, because they want to believe Bono thinks like they do...and don't want to contemplate that he might like the man they despise. However, if there are any quotes from Bono showing this personal hate for Bush they believe he has, I'd love to see them.

Again, I'm no fan of Bush...but your interpretation of the facts, and selective use of them, is a bit of revisionist history in itself. I understand you like Bono and hate Bush, but that doesn't change the relationship these two men had. I'm not saying they were best buds, obviously the could disagree and Bono felt free to criticize Bush when he thought it was needed. And they were clearly using each other, like all people in such relationships do. But to say there's no personal like, praise or respect there is disingenuous, at best.

So I believe it's best to look at Bono's actual words, rather than our own memories and political opinions, when considering this issue. And maybe refrain from speculating what's in someone's heart in blithely declaring that they "hate" someone b/c of a political disagreement.

 

[lemonfly]

I'm saying this purely from my own perspective, based on interviews and news clips and what have you - Bono enjoyed Bush's company. They seemed to be on the same wavelength. They got along as people. Fuck it, I'll say it - they LIKED each other. Politically, Bono has tons more in common with Obama. But Obama is something of a cold fish. For a warm hearted gregarious Irish man like Bono - he and Bush hit it off on a personal level.

 

[gvox]

But to say there's no personal like, praise or respect there is disingenuous, at best.

I said he praised him and respected him for what he did with Africa. Whether or not what you quoted was the sum and total of what he said to Assayas is beyond my willingness to go dust off that book and read it again. From what I remember there was a bit of contention about the way he steered the interviews, but that might have been some other book. As for Google searches, what I found funny about those was the headlines (mostly from conservative outlets) that screamed "BONO HEAPS PRAISE ON BUSH" and then when you read the article or watch the video Bono's comment is literally one pretty carefully guarded statement of respect for Bush on that one issue (Africa). Agenda much, media outlets? lol

Anyways, you could have saved yourself all that typing by realizing the origin of this discussion: someone said that hating Bono is akin to hating Bush. They basically say that hating Bush is foolish because even Bono likes Bush.

Well here's the newsflash: I don't really give a shit whether Bono likes Bush. If he wants to find some common ground with who I consider to be a war criminal, that's his business. I can't abide people like Bush in my heart, period. I have no need to like Bono might, and I have every reason not to. Pretty much every murderous dictator in the world has probably done some nice things for some people, and you could probably, if you had a motive for doing so, sit down for tea with them and strike at least one common ground. You might even find something to like. Maybe for Bono, it's enough. It's not for me, but then again I'm not him. Common people don't need a million reasons to hate a US president. If we have a few really good reasons to, and for fuck sake there are many, we hate them. And no, I don't buy that these things would have necessarily happened under any other president. Obama said fuck Pakistan, I'm going in anyways. Bush? Don't even get me started.

Again, this is not really about whether or not Bono likes Bush. It would be if I were the type of person who blindly shapes what they believe based on what Bono says, but I'm not. I don't depend on him for my news. Therefore, I maintain that saying that Bush-hate is in any way akin to or as irrational as Bono-hate is a patently ridiculous and misleading statement. It's a horrible analogy, Bono doesn't have blood on is hands so hating him for his music, the way he talks, the campaigning for Africa, it's irrational and silly. Hating Bush for what he's done is completely and perfectly rational and understandable.

Be careful though...if you convince people any more (especially Bush haters lol) that Bono loves Bush, hell man, you might just give some even more reason to hate Bono! (note sarcasm. I won't hate him for it )

 

[Nick66]

I said he praised him and respected him for what he did with Africa. Whether or not what you quoted was the sum and total of what he said to Assayas is beyond my willingness to go dust off that book and read it again. From what I remember there was a bit of contention about the way he steered the interviews, but that might have been some other book. As for Google searches, what I found funny about those was the headlines (mostly from conservative outlets) that screamed "BONO HEAPS PRAISE ON BUSH" and then when you read the article or watch the video Bono's comment is literally one pretty carefully guarded statement of respect for Bush on that one issue (Africa). Agenda much, media outlets? lol

Anyways, you could have saved yourself all that typing by realizing the origin of this discussion: someone said that hating Bono is akin to hating Bush. They basically say that hating Bush is foolish because even Bono likes Bush.

Well here's the newsflash: I don't really give a shit whether Bono likes Bush. If he wants to find some common ground with who I consider to be a war criminal, that's his business. I can't abide people like Bush in my heart, period. I have no need to like Bono might, and I have every reason not to. Pretty much every murderous dictator in the world has probably done some nice things for some people, and you could probably, if you had a motive for doing so, sit down for tea with them and strike at least one common ground. You might even find something to like. Maybe for Bono, it's enough. It's not for me, but then again I'm not him. Common people don't need a million reasons to hate a US president. If we have a few really good reasons to, and for fuck sake there are many, we hate them. And no, I don't buy that these things would have necessarily happened under any other president. Obama said fuck Pakistan, I'm going in anyways. Bush? Don't even get me started.

Again, this is not really about whether or not Bono likes Bush. It would be if I were the type of person who blindly shapes what they believe based on what Bono says, but I'm not. I don't depend on him for my news. Therefore, I maintain that saying that Bush-hate is in any way akin to or as irrational as Bono-hate is a patently ridiculous and misleading statement. It's a horrible analogy, Bono doesn't have blood on is hands so hating him for his music, the way he talks, the campaigning for Africa, it's irrational and silly. Hating Bush for what he's done is completely and perfectly rational and understandable.

Be careful though...if you convince people any more (especially Bush haters lol) that Bono loves Bush, hell man, you might just give some even more reason to hate Bono! (note sarcasm. I won't hate him for it )

Fair enough...I actually respect that you don't look to Bono (or any other celebrity) to form your political opinions. There's enough of that in the world. I was merely making the narrow point in this discussion that I believe Bono's like and praise of Bush is genuine, even if we may not necessarily agree with it.

Since this is a U2 site, I'm really not interested in discussing the Iraq or Afghanistan wars or Bush's (or Obama's for that matter) complicity in taking innocent lives. Except to say that of course I agree completely that it's silly to compare the irrational hatred of Bono for his Africa work with hatred of Bush (or any politician) for their foreign wars. It's apples and oranges.

 

[Achtung11]

Foreign wars (who went into Libya without Congressional approval?), G-Bay, Patriot Act, etc. haven't stopped even with the administration change and it will be carried out by the next ten presidents in the current partisan system. He was a terrible preisdent, but is Bush really any different from Johnson, Obama and the others?

The difference between Iraq and Libya is that it was based on complete lies (Saddam ties to 9/11, weapons of mass destruction). For these reasons, Bush is different than Obama. We can debate whether or not the war in Libya was worth it or not, and honestly I haven't done my research on it. But unless it too was based on complete lies, then I would not put it down to the same level as Bush's War.