The "3 crap records and your out" rule

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Do you have any objective points comparing it to say pop?

I'm not sure how one generates an objective point on this. But, he neither manages to sound as smooth as "IYWTVD", or as sexy as "DYFL", or as awesome as Discotheque, Please, and Gone anywhere on ATYCLB IMO.

He has talked quite a bit about the decline of his voice and how that all turned around only after his father died (during the Elevation tour.)

Having been to a lot of POPMART and Elevation shows myself, I have to say the POPMART shows featured him at a higher vocal point. Neither of which are him at a great place vocally. His peak was Lovetown, his bottom seems to have been Elevation, and he has been getting better tour after tour post-Elevation.
 
His voice might be pretty bad on most ATYCLB tracks but his delivery of In A Little While is stunning. :drool:
 
Bono's voice is supposed to sound world-weary on ATYCLB. Or, rather, the fact that it does is a happy accident. If he sounded like Josh Groban on it, the songs would come across as sugary and preachy; you couldn't feel Walk On or When I Look At The World.

I don't think that ATYCLB is terribly imaginative, but Bono's voice isn't the weak link.
 
Bono's voice is supposed to sound world-weary on ATYCLB. Or, rather, the fact that it does is a happy accident. If he sounded like Josh Groban on it, the songs would come across as sugary and preachy; you couldn't feel Walk On or When I Look At The World.

:up:
 
Despite his vocal problems around 96/97, I think he gets away with it on Pop, just.

The songs are maybe not overtly taxing on the voice, at least not compared to the type of stuff he was doing on JT and R & H. He made his shortcomings work in his favour and he's kind of been doing that in various different ways ever since.

ATYCLB is much more of a singers record, big vocals are centre stage again and I think, for the most part he steps up to the plate. To my ears, HTDAAB and NLOTH sound more inconsistent.

Sometimes You Can't Make It and Moment of Surrender both have brilliant moments, but then you also have the likes of Miracle Drug and Unknown Caller.

When I hear Wake Up Dead Man, there can be no doubt that the narrator is a broken down man, at the end of his tether. Any vocal shortcomings are perfectly acceptable. The problem emerges when Bono starts to use this approach as a kind of strut to fall back on.

The 'world weary' method is fine, but perhaps he uses it as an excuse at times.
 
Despite his vocal problems around 96/97, I think he gets away with it on Pop, just.

The songs are maybe not overtly taxing on the voice, at least not compared to the type of stuff he was doing on JT and R & H. He made his shortcomings work in his favour and he's kind of been doing that in various different ways ever since.

ATYCLB is much more of a singers record, big vocals are centre stage again and I think, for the most part he steps up to the plate. To my ears, HTDAAB and NLOTH sound more inconsistent.

Sometimes You Can't Make It and Moment of Surrender both have brilliant moments, but then you also have the likes of Miracle Drug and Unknown Caller.

When I hear Wake Up Dead Man, there can be no doubt that the narrator is a broken down man, at the end of his tether. Any vocal shortcomings are perfectly acceptable. The problem emerges when Bono starts to use this approach as a kind of strut to fall back on.

The 'world weary' method is fine, but perhaps he uses it as an excuse at times.

He's very good at noticing his weaknesses and then adopting a Pee-Wee Hermanesque pose so that he appears to have "meant to do that."
 
Coincidentally, I was just reading a transcript on CNN.com of an interview Bono did with Larry King in 2002, and he seems to think the album count is less than three there!

KING: How long can a band last when the audience generally is young? Can a band -- can a rock band be in their 60s?

BONO: I don't know. I just -- I don't know if I want to be in a rock band in my 60s. My attitude is two crap albums in a row and you're out. So, I mean, I don't know long we'll go.
 
I have a fondness for Bono's singing on ATYCLB because you can hear him finding back his voice while knowing he's not there quite yet
 
Would it be out of line to suggest that the quality of Bono's voice is determined by what is required by (or suitable for) the song in question?
 
DevilsShoes, Let me preface this by saying, again, that I love your posts. (If only everyone would take the time to write such intelligent, well-formed comments.)
In general the most successful U2 singles are those with big, simple ideas at their core; Beautiful Day, One, With or Without You, Desire, Pride etc.
If we're talking about lyrical ideas (as opposed to musical), then I agree about "Desire" and "Pride" being big and simple. But I don't agree as regards "Beautiful Day", "One", or "With or Without You". Those are all lyrically odd tunes. To this day, I really have no way to articulate what Bono is trying to communicate on "With or Without You".
I've always felt that Wild Horses was the weak link on AB, it does seem very much like a throwback to a previous era of the band and I think it sits a little uneasily on that first side.
Actually, I'd almost forgotten this from over-familiarity with the record, but you're right that "Wild Horses" always sounded a bit out of place. I remember feeling that way even back in 91/92. It's probably because the lyric is quite earnest, and the chorus is kind of soaring, in an 80s-U2 kind of a way. However, the song is still so good that I don't mind it at all!
 
ATYCLB is much more of a singers record, big vocals are centre stage again and I think, for the most part he steps up to the plate.
Yes, agree. I think Bono (and maybe the band) had in mind a bit of a white-soul kind of sound for it. The high-point of that approach is probably "In A Little While", which hits all the right nerve centers and has a fantastic vocal. (The low-point, perhaps, being "Kite", which doesn't convince me -- it still comes across as a Celine Dion song to me.)
Sometimes You Can't Make It and Moment of Surrender both have brilliant moments...
The main problem i have with "Moment of Surrender" (and indeed, NLOTH in general) is the sound of Bono's voice. I'm not sure it's entirely his fault -- I think the culprit is Lanois/Eno or whoever recorded his vocals, but his voice sounds far too exposed, naked, and shrill all over the album (it would have helped if he hadn't exacerbated this by singing "Oh-Oh-Oh-Oh" over the breaks in nearly every track). On "Moment of Surrender", I just think his voice sounds poor. I must admit I've not heard any live performances to compare... er, maybe I should.
 
Would it be out of line to suggest that the quality of Bono's voice is determined by what is required by (or suitable for) the song in question?

The suggestion would not make sense in my mind, when you consider the live performances from the era. His limitations were vividly on display. It would also seem to fly in the face of his own comments about getting part of his voice "back" after the death of his father.
 
He's very good at noticing his weaknesses and then adopting a Pee-Wee Hermanesque pose so that he appears to have "meant to do that."

:yes: Bono can be quite a crafty singer on stage.

When it comes to high notes he's good at acting out the 'rapture of the moment' if you will, especially if he feels his voice isn't quite up to scratch. The 'Wide Awake's' in Bad are a good example, where he would often hold the mic so far away from his mouth that the notes would be inaudible.

I remember him doing to this as far back as ZOO TV, so it's not a new thing, although I haven't seen him do it so much on the last couple of tours.

DevilsShoes, Let me preface this by saying, again, that I love your posts.


Cheers mate, our thoughts on U2 have always been pretty much in tandem so it's good to see you posting again. I think we're the only 2 people on Interference who aren't quite as enamoured with NLOTH as everybody else appears to be. :wink:


If we're talking about lyrical ideas (as opposed to musical), then I agree about "Desire" and "Pride" being big and simple. But I don't agree as regards "Beautiful Day", "One", or "With or Without You". Those are all lyrically odd tunes. To this day, I really have no way to articulate what Bono is trying to communicate on "With or Without You".

Lyrically, U2's singles do tend to be a bit more complex than the average pop hit. I think what I meant was that at the heart of those songs there's a straightforward message that everybody 'gets' without having to work too hard.

So WOWY hinges on the sentiment that 'I can't live with or without you', which seems to be a pretty universal one. It's something most of us have probably felt at some point.

One is more about the need for some kind of unity, without losing our individuality.

Beautiful Day just wants to celebrate a great moment.

In truth, on a deeper level, we may be dealing with something considerably more challenging and a lot less palatable, but the average listener overlooks this and just hooks into the central message.

One and WOWY are pretty heavy songs and despite all its apparent sunny optimism, Beautiful Day is actually written from the point of view of a man who has just lost everything.


Yes, agree. I think Bono (and maybe the band) had in mind a bit of a white-soul kind of sound for it. The high-point of that approach is probably "In A Little While", which hits all the right nerve centers and has a fantastic vocal. (The low-point, perhaps, being "Kite", which doesn't convince me -- it still comes across as a Celine Dion song to me.)

The main problem i have with "Moment of Surrender" (and indeed, NLOTH in general) is the sound of Bono's voice. I'm not sure it's entirely his fault -- I think the culprit is Lanois/Eno or whoever recorded his vocals, but his voice sounds far too exposed, naked, and shrill all over the album (it would have helped if he hadn't exacerbated this by singing "Oh-Oh-Oh-Oh" over the breaks in nearly every track). On "Moment of Surrender", I just think his voice sounds poor. I must admit I've not heard any live performances to compare... er, maybe I should.

I think there's probably a lot of truth in your white-soul observation, from that POV, In A Little While would certainly be the most realised example of this.

I quite enjoy the renewed power Bono display's on NLOTH (I mean the actual song), and also enjoy some of the stuff on Magnificent and MOS, from then on though things seem a bit more erratic. That's the problem, on the one hand he's demonstrating his rediscovered range and intensity, but on the other it's kind of a return to the raspy croak of Pop.

Bono can still be a fantastic singer, that performance on Letterman proves that. Plus, if you've not checked out the Path To Zero thread on this forum, you should definitely take a look. I swear it could be Lovetown Bono belting out some of those notes. The capacity is there, I'd like to see it across a whole album.

As for the live versions of MOS, they weren't all that different to the studio incarnation to my ears, although Bono did incorporate a rap at the end. If you're not sold on the NLOTH rendition, chances are you'll probably feel the same about the 360 ones.
 
I'm too tired and old to read all this thread, what I scanned was interesting.

Forgive me if these thoughts have been posted.

I think the fragmented state of both music genres and music distribution gets in the way of some of U2's commercial success - since say the late 90's country and other genres have grown significantly (or so it seems) and everything from MP3s to Disney TV and their music platforms have created new channels that compete for the attention of kids. I'm 46, my stepson 25, none of his friends give a hoot about U2, they are all country or hip hop fans -- when I was his age, neither of those existed to the degree they do today.


I think NLOTH was a solid record - significant depth in terms of quality tracks through and through.

Probably the one other thing that I think has hurt (at least the commercial success) is their choice of lead singles over time, at least in the US. From what I recall, Discotechque, The Fly, Beautiful Day, Vertigo and then Boots --
a few better choices than those might have helped -- just my opinion, and it is probably really hard to do.
 
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