Spiderman Discussion - Part III

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Take this headline and put yourself back in 2002, or 1992 U2 fandom for that matter...

Bono and The Edge help create Broadway musical

Yep, as shitty an idea as it reads.

This is going to turn into a rant, I'm sorry.

Haven't we moved on, as a civilization, from the musical as an artform? Let me just lay this out: you, the customer, you peasant, are going to use more than a day/two days' pay to go see a bunch of people wearing superhero costumes being slung around with piano wire and sing songs lacking any kind of true emotion or grit at all, because the performers are about good posture, clenching their sphincters, and making extra sure to pronounce the end syllable of every word?

If you want live drama and examination of the human condition, go see a play.

If you want ridiculously large set pieces, crazy costumes, and you're not intellectually lazy, go see an opera. Stop being lazy and settling for Broadway to hold your hand through 2 hours in the dark.

To every high school marching band slowly assembling their easily-movable Les Mis structure for the football half time show: fuck you. No one cares. If you had any artistic or musical talent beyond slowly emitting a dull, fart-like breath into your oversized brass/woodwind instrument, you would have already joined a theatre club or you'd have formed a rock group and be getting laid by now and would not give a shit anyway.

Rant over, and yes, I think 'Cats' is okay.
 
GirlsAloudFan said:
Ha, where does it say anywhere in that article that Bono is throwing Taymor under the bus? It just said he's taking a role in the talks. Maybe he's there passionately defending her, and trying to help her stay on as director? Who knows.
Click to expand...

Michael Cohl's influence...

So if the designer/writer/director is out, are they burying this musical ?

atu2.com says there's a major announcement coming --

A major announcement could come as early as today regarding another opening delay and a possible three-week hiatus for an overhaul of the production. For the past few days, Bono has been involved in major negotiations regarding the future of Spider-Man: Turn Off The Dark, including decisions about the creative team behind the production. According to today's New York Daily News, Julie Taymor has left the musical: "Taymor, 58, has walked away from the show she co-wrote and worked relentlessly to bring to Broadway, a source close to the production said Tuesday night."

Speaking with Ticketmaster customer service representative, Randy, this morning, they are getting "bombarded" with phone calls from ticketholders asking for refunds. They are unable to issue any refunds or exchanges until the official announcement is made.
 
This thing is like a bad laboratory experiment that has gotten out of control. If Taymor leaves, then Bono and Edge should take their songs and run. Just shut it down and pretend it never happened, like PopMart. :wink:
 
Bono/Edge have been pretty lucky thus far by getting away with just "providing the music", with all the real venom being aimed mostly at Taymor. This won't be the case anymore, and I'd say it will intensify now that the target is Bono - and the understanding that this is, and pretty much always has been, really 'his' thing takes hold.
 
This is nothing but rampant speculation, but who's to say that Bono hasn't been trying to convince Julie to step down or make drastic changes or whatever for months? Just because he's now being mentioned as being in the negotiations/discussions doesn't mean he's all of a sudden not on her side and throwing her under a bus.

Oh, and also:

mjpopcorn.gif
 
corianderstem said:
This is nothing but rampant speculation, but who's to say that Bono hasn't been trying to convince Julie to step down or make drastic changes or whatever for months? Just because he's now being mentioned as being in the negotiations/discussions doesn't mean he's all of a sudden not on her side and throwing her under a bus.
Click to expand...


At no time has your signature been more apt.

:wink:
 
mama cass said:
here's Michael Riedel's take on it...

ok so flame me, but i agree with him that Bono and the Edge are equally to blame for the whole fiasco... "every artist is a cannibal", yeah, so it seems! it looks like they're eating Julie to survive! :huh:




Read more: 'Spider-Man' blame Taym - NYPOST.com
Click to expand...

Bono and Edge's condition to get involved in the first place was that they use Julie Taymor. If anything they might be more likely to get out of the musical now.

And there's nothing sinister about the designer/writer/director of the show taking the blame. But I agree the press will run with the "Bono's play" comments.
 
I wonder what the difference in commitment - and investment - is between Bono and Edge. If there is any difference. And also, those articles set it up as Producers vs Creatives (Taymor/Bono/Edge.) But it can't be that black and white. Paul "Drunken" McGuinness is one of the producers, and Bono (don't know about Edge) is one of the major financial backers - essentially a producer. Sides taken, I'm sure, but it can't be a simple Producer/Creative split determining that. Bono has a foot in both camps, McGuinness has some sort of loyalty to both too.
 
Bono and Edge convinced Michael Cohl to pay up, since they had to get someone after the first producer had a stroke.
 
So, If Taymor really is out that means a new director with their own ideas is going to step in. A major overhaul of the entire production is inevitable it seems

and Bono and Edge are going back out on tour in a couple of weeks, they're going to have to start their own rehersals. How will they give the time needed to this show when they're about to go on tour all over the planet?

I will be very dissapointed if all this in any way pushes back the release of the new album
 
mama cass said:
ok so flame me, but i agree with him that Bono and the Edge are equally to blame for the whole fiasco... "every artist is a cannibal", yeah, so it seems! it looks like they're eating Julie to survive! :huh:
Click to expand...

I agree that they are equally to blame. Who knows when we will get the whole behind the scenes story of this mess but for now we have the music by which to judge Bono and Edge's involvement. The reviews for that music have been lukewarm at best. I feel they came into this project overconfident. I remember one quote in particular a while back where they said they were not fans of Andrew Lloyd Webber and other great musical composers. They said it like they could teach those greats something. I think they came in arrogant.

Canadiens is right. There are so many red flags when you think of Bono and Edge writing for a musical. Bono's lyrical talent is in expressing universal feelings and creating sketches. Neither of those are good qualities in a musical. Most songs in a musical have to express two things at the same time: evolving story and character. Then you have Edge who writes great music but so much of it is soundscapes. They have no experience in Broadway. They have never even done a concept album with a story.

Bono and Edge certainly deserve equal blame not simply because they failed to keep Taymor in check but because they went all in on an artform that plays to none of their strengths. Can they salvage it and make it great? Not in two or three weeks and only if someone stands up to them like no one did to Julie Taymor.
 
Screwtape2 said:
I remember one quote in particular a while back where they said they were not fans of Andrew Lloyd Webber and other great musical composers. They said it like they could teach those greats something. I think they came in arrogant.
Click to expand...

Talk about a misquote...

Really guys, Bono and Edge are equally to blame?
 
mama cass said:
she directed The Lion King - she won a Tony award for "best direction of a musical" for her work on the show
Click to expand...

Granted, she got the Tony for directing, but wasn't her forte costume design? She won a Tony for her costuming on Lion King. So she directed LK and created fantastic costumes but she didn't write the book or the music. She was the Grand Puppeteer.

On the other hand, Frida had an actual storyline that made sense and I remember it being a pretty good flick. So I give her some points for directing on that one.

All that I'm speculating is that maybe most of her cache comes from her talent for costume design. And maybe she is a capable director. But it might also be true that Bono and Edge's biggest gaffe was letting her co-write this thing.
 
Do we actually have any idea of what their involvement beyond the music has been? Yeah, Bono's been involved in previews and meetings and whatnot, but we probably won't ever know what his conversations with Julie or anyone else were behind the scenes.

Maybe he and Edge were trying for months to convince her that it was a mess. Maybe they actually believed it was just fine. Maybe beyond the music they haven't actually had much say or pull in the matter (which would surprise me).

Unless we actually know that kind of thing, I don't think we can say how much blame they have, or whether Bono's tossing Julie under the bus.

Not that that will stop anyone else from pointing fingers and being all LOLBONO, but that's internet life in 2011.
 
Screwtape2 said:
How much blame do you think they should get, BVS?
Click to expand...

Well there hasn't been any indication that Bono's taken any part in the plot writing process or the casting. And I'm not sure but maybe you can help me out, has Edge worked on the rigging designs and played a big part in the acrobatic feature of this play?

So far we know they've written music and invested money.
 
I'd forgotten she directed Frida - I really liked that movie.

Across the Universe was really silly, but a lot of the visuals were cool.

Thus endeth my commentary on Julie Taymor's previous work.
 
WOW....I keep coming back to this show hoping things will work out and it just keeps getting worse and worse every day. What a hot mess!

I am not sure about the writing, but I recall some joint decisions on casting. At least for the Spidey part…..but you know that Bono and the Edge had to have something to do with Taymore’s departure. (it seems to be official at this point.) Is any one else remembering the interview Bono and Edge gave on 60 minutes ( I think it was 60 minutes) and Bono was talking/teasing with Julie about not having an ending to the show and being close to opening???..... I think they had an idea that things were not well months ago. I wonder why it has taken this long to make these hard changes? Maybe they were just hoping it would go over well and no one would notice the fact that the show was unfinished.

This entire thing is just bad…..
 
If the album isn't done yet, then there's no way it's coming out any time in the near future, and it probably wouldn't be coming out soon even if Spidey had opened on time.

BUT

If previous information/comments made are correct, the album was mostly done a few months ago, and yet another Spidey delay ain't delaying shit in U2 world.
 
corianderstem said:
Do we actually have any idea of what their involvement beyond the music has been? Yeah, Bono's been involved in previews and meetings and whatnot, but we probably won't ever know what his conversations with Julie or anyone else were behind the scenes.

Maybe he and Edge were trying for months to convince her that it was a mess. Maybe they actually believed it was just fine. Maybe beyond the music they haven't actually had much say or pull in the matter (which would surprise me).

Unless we actually know that kind of thing, I don't think we can say how much blame they have, or whether Bono's tossing Julie under the bus.

Not that that will stop anyone else from pointing fingers and being all LOLBONO, but that's internet life in 2011.
Click to expand...

corianderstem said:
If the album isn't done yet, then there's no way it's coming out any time in the near future, and it probably wouldn't be coming out soon even if Spidey had opened on time.

BUT

If previous information/comments made are correct, the album was mostly done a few months ago, and yet another Spidey delay ain't delaying shit in U2 world.
Click to expand...

All of this. Cori is a font of wisdom. :up:

I do recall the interview where Bono said Julie nixed a song he thought would be a sure hit, despite his fighting for its inclusion. If he had that little control over the music, I doubt he had any with regard to the book, or reining in her...uh...creative impulses.


I think this recent development is the best possible thing that could have happened for this show. Hopefully it'll go on to blow us all away.
 
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