Pop themes

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
So, how was the dance music scene like in the early 70's, oops, 80's, when you went clubbing? Depeche Mode, Linear Movement and Soft Cell were all the rage?

:lol:

:coocoo:

1365211015172-troll_spray4.jpg
 
:|

For real. Can we just assume that the stupid-calling goes on ad infinitum and just go on to the next thing?
 
:|

For real. Can we just assume that the stupid-calling goes on ad infinitum and just go on to the next thing?

Welcome to interference, you have just witnessed one of what will be many (I can assure you) completely useless thread arguments/derailments during your time here. My advice is to not worry to much about these things, they tend to sort themselves out.
 
I love the lyrcis of Mofo, but for some reason can't get into the music of it (i.e. the heavy electronica). But the lyrics are so raw and honest and heart-wrenching that I will still listen to the song from time to time and enjoy seeing it performed. And I don't hate the electronica of Mofo, it just seems kind of out of place. If more of Pop or some other albums had been heavy electronica like Mofo, it would have something greater than itself to belong to.
 
I love the lyrcis of Mofo, but for some reason can't get into the music of it (i.e. the heavy electronica). But the lyrics are so raw and honest and heart-wrenching that I will still listen to the song from time to time and enjoy seeing it performed. And I don't hate the electronica of Mofo, it just seems kind of out of place. If more of Pop or some other albums had been heavy electronica like Mofo, it would have something greater than itself to belong to.

Agreed...which makes Pop fussy and undefined as an album. After MOFO you go into something like IGWSHA which is trance-like and maybe, just maybe 'trip-hop'...and then you go into Last Night on Earth which is plain 'rock'...but what the hell is Do You Feel Loved...? I just never got into that song whatsoever...the vibe is just boring. I did not enjoy it when they broke it out live on the opening night in Vegas (which I did attend). It is one of those songs that does not translate on CD or live for me.

The album is all over the place musically, which is why it doesn't resonate with me...:huh:
 
Agreed...which makes Pop fussy and undefined as an album. After MOFO you go into something like IGWSHA which is trance-like and maybe, just maybe 'trip-hop'...and then you go into Last Night on Earth which is plain 'rock'...but what the hell is Do You Feel Loved...? I just never got into that song whatsoever...the vibe is just boring. I did not enjoy it when they broke it out live on the opening night in Vegas (which I did attend). It is one of those songs that does not translate on CD or live for me.

The album is all over the place musically, which is why it doesn't resonate with me...:huh:

I agree with absolutely nothing stated here.
 
It's just my opinion...

I agree with absolutely nothing stated here.

There was nothing to agree with, it was my opinion. I try not to state irrevocably, that Pop is 'this or that'...I don't find it particularly exciting, but it is a tremendous album to some and blah to others. Just like ATYCLB is to some here.

The difference when it comes to discussing those albums is that those who love Pop find nothing good about ATYCLB. To each his own...I just find it frustrating how one album can be held to such high esteem, described as innovative and experimental, and the other torn to shreds as derivative and a sellout.

The Popmart shows were interesting and different, and when U2 found its feet the shows were solid and spectacular. The album just didn't translate live (I mean really, how many Pop songs have they broken out live in the past 15 years?). So they not longer play them live.

U2 lives in the live setting. Pop, as different and musically diverse as it can seem on CD, does not leave the band anything hang their hat on live. MOFO...energetic tune live...how many more times have they played it since the Popmart Tour? Pop is not a true snapshot of who U2 'really' is as a band. It's U2 stepping out and trying on new shoes...great...they out grew the shoes fairly quickly.

As generic as the sound is on ATYCLB there is continuity to the sound, and it's basically the band playing together, without so many outside sounds incorporated (Eno and Lanois use their ambient, even modern sounds, but nothing like Howie B. did on Pop). It translates better live because it's back to basics, and truly representative of the band U2 is.

Call ATYCLB boring or sellout, or a cash grab or whatever negative monitor you want to put on it (and I'm not referring to you djerdap) but it sold, it produced some classic U2 songs that they continually showcase in concert and it brought U2 back from the abyss that Pop and Popmart left them in.
 
There was nothing to agree with, it was my opinion. I will never state irrevocably, that Pop is 'this or that'...I don't find it particularly exciting, but it is a tremendous album to some and blah to others. Just like ATYCLB is to some here.

The difference when it comes to discussing those albums is that those who love Pop find nothing good about ATYCLB. To each his own...I just find it frustrating how one album can be held to such high esteem, described as innovative and experimental, and the other torn to shreds as derivative and a sellout.

The Popmart shows were interesting and different, and when U2 found its feet the shows were solid and spectacular. The album just didn't translate live (I mean really, how many Pop songs have they broken out live in the past 15 years?). So they not longer play them live.

U2 lives in the live setting. Pop, as different and musically diverse as it can seem on CD, does not leave the band anything hang their hat on live. MOFO...energetic tune live...how many more times have they played it since the Popmart Tour? Pop is not a true snapshot of who U2 'really' is as a band. It's U2 stepping out and trying on new shoes...great...they out grew the shoes fairly quickly.

As generic as the sound is on ATYCLB there is continuity to the sound, and it's basically the band playing together, without so many outside sounds incorporated (Eno and Lanois use their ambient, even modern sounds, but nothing like Howie B. did on Pop). It translates better live because it's back to basics, and truly representative of the band U2 is.

Call ATYCLB boring or sellout, or a cash grab or whatever negative monitor you want to put on it (and I'm not referring to you djerdap) but it sold, it produced some classic U2 songs that they continually showcase in concert and it brought U2 back from the abyss that Pop and Popmart left them in.

And yet again, I disagree completely, especially with Pop not translating well live. And I couldn't disagree more that ATYCLB was more successful live for so many reasons, although I do feel that album has improved a lot in a live setting. Mofo, Last Night on Earth, Gone and Please are some of their best live songs and for me far more potent than cookie-cutter hits like Beautiful Day or Stuck in a Moment or something as embarrassingly bad as Elevation (so no, no "classic U2 songs" there in my mind, and I couldn't care less if they're played on the radio today). I don't think that the fact that they don't play Pop songs live anymore has anything to do with the live quality of Pop. Hell, that Vertigo version of Discotheque is one of my personal highlights of that tour. But they do have mixed feelings about the album and the "masses" that come to their concerts either do not know the album or have mixed feelings about it as well.

I also think you're overstating Howie B's role in the process of making Pop. It is a U2 record first and foremost, and Eno and Lanois had songwriting input into All That You Can't Leave Behind, as evidenced by Eno being unsatisfied by not having songwriting credits on the album (which is also probably the cause why they were so actively included in that same process for No Line). Who had more input into the sound and the development of the record remains highly debatable, and I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

Pop is exactly what U2 are to me - bold, daring, versatile and poignant, which are the characteristics of all of their best records. That's completely your opinion that it is not a "true snapshot" or whatever. U2 was never a back-to-basics band in my mind. They have constantly evolved and reinvented their sound and all that came to a halt as soon as they started to write bland, cheesy and derivative stuff, which is the majority of their output in the 00s.

Calling Popmart an "abyss" is overdramatizing it to say the least. The tour was a huge success in Europe and South America and has produced some of their best and most legendary concerts. Nothing post-2000 comes close to the power of the Leeds, Sarajevo and Santiago performances for me.
 
Pop is exactly what U2 are to me - bold, daring, versatile and poignant, which are the characteristics of all of their best records. That's completely your opinion that it is not a "true snapshot" or whatever. U2 was never a back-to-basics band in my mind. They have constantly evolved and reinvented their sound and all that came to a halt as soon as they started to write bland, cheesy and derivative stuff, which is the majority of their output in the 00s.

:applaud: Quality post! Well said, mate. Well said!

If Pop/Popmart was an abyss, I never want to come out of that abyss.
 
Calling Popmart an "abyss" is overdramatizing it to say the least. The tour was a huge success in Europe and South America and has produced some of their best and most legendary concerts. Nothing post-2000 comes close to the power of the Leeds, Sarajevo and Santiago performances for me.

I agree and disagree with you.

I agree the Popmart tour was not an "abyss". U2 made some miscalculations on Popmart which resulted in some half empty stadiums in some locations. There were more full or soldout stadiums than there were half empty ones though. But the half empty ones are what U2 was not used to and it is unfortunately what sticks out to people about that tour. The tour still sold very well overall. Popmart the show was as good as any tour they have done IMO (after the first two weeks). The Pop Muzik-Mofo intro is probably the best concert intro they have done IMO.

I disagree that they have not even come close since Popmart. There are MANY shows on the 3 tours that followed that were just as good as anything on Popmart to me. Offhand Slane I in 2001 blows away either of the Popmart shows you mention IMO. But "legendary" shows are typically somewhat just "legend". The bootleg or recording or even a DVD may look and sound great. But it is hard to judge such a subjective thing. Especially if you are not judging from first hand experience. I know many that regard the Lovetown NY eve show as one of U2's best. I knew several people at the time that attended that show. Their review was that the show the night before blew it away and that the band seemed to run out of gas on NY Eve after IWF and was just a standard show after the first two songs. :shrug: Having seen all the tours being mentioned, many times on each tour, I do not know how you can say Popmart was the pinnacle and they have not come close since. I disagree with that completely.
 
I did not say Popmart was the pinnacle. That was ZooTV. And some Lovetown performances. But yeah, as far as Bono's vocals, song selection and the overall energy level go, I prefer it in general to the subsequent three tours. There were some amazing concerts in the last decade as well, but no, none of them rival my favourite Popmart gigs.

I realize Popmart seems more like a failure from a North American perspective, but the concerts overseas were wild and hugely successful. I love some concerts in the 2000s - Slane I is an excellent one - but it's not even close to something like Leeds 1997, which is just tour de force U2. The only "legendary" concert that I was actually referring to was the Sarajevo one, which despite - or almost because of - Bono's voice is one of their most emotional and breathtaking performances. Just listen to Edge's performance on one of their weakest live songs - that being Pride - it is unique in its intensity. Leeds and Santiago hardly have the reputation of the NY Eve concert you mention, and I agree that one isn't even in the top 10 Lovetown concerts (the 26th of December is another story).
 
Let me clarify what I mean by abyss...I'm not calling Pop or Popmart abysmal...I'm saying that U2's status at the dawn of ATYCLB and The Elevation Tour was not where it had been after the Zoo TV/Zooropa Tours. So they had to climb out of a small hole they found themselves in terms of mass appeal.

As for Popmart surpassing anything that came after, you couldn't be more wrong. As far as spectacle it was match by 360 Tour, as far as emotion, nothing compares to the end of the Elevation Tour. Like that album/tour or not, I went to three shows that were absolutely stunning in magnitude, emotion and pure showmanship. The 4/20 show in San Jose was simply the best concert I've ever seen...and the show I saw in November of 2001 was the most emotional, heartfelt, uplifting show I've seen them play.

What some people consider classic and cookie cutter, are just that...considerations/opinions. Pop is in the bottom two of my favorite U2 albums...it just is...doesn't resonate w/me, doesn't connect w/me, feels like U2 was reaching for something they just couldn't grasp. NLOTH was more U2 than Pop was, in terms of experimenting and sonic textures.

Again, my opinion...I've been a fan for a long, long time...I was a young man when Pop came out...but I stand by my feelings on the album.

Gabe...DFYL...means something to you...I respect that...I find it hard to listen to...but to each his own...:D
 
As for Popmart surpassing anything that came after, you couldn't be more wrong. As far as spectacle it was match by 360 Tour, as far as emotion, nothing compares to the end of the Elevation Tour.

Oh, I thought we were talking opinions here? Suddenly I'm wrong?

The spectacle of 360 tour was bland and backed up by mostly uninspired, tired performances and setlists, backing up an album that for the first time in their history never really worked live for the majority of the songs. Easily the worst U2 concerts I've seen.

As far as emotion goes, the Sarajevo concert was an emotional experience that even the band members themselves acknowledged it was the peak of their career. From a historical context of both the region and the band, it was a huge event. Popmart also brought U2 for the first time to South America where it was welcomed by arguably the best and most energetic crowds in the world, also having some very touching (and controversial) moments in Chile and Argentina from a historical and political perspective. It would be nice if you could try to think of the world as beyond North America for one second, eh? Since Popmart was considered a "failure" only in that part of the world?

And nobody's denying the emotional impact that the Elevation Tour had, especially in the post 9/11-USA. However, those concerts were also backed by the weakest, slowest and most unimaginative setlists in their career. Cutting Achtung Baby (or more up-tempo songs in general) tracks from the setlist is never a good idea, as they have learned again and again for the past three tours.
 
I did not say Popmart was the pinnacle. That was ZooTV. And some Lovetown performances. But yeah, as far as Bono's vocals, song selection and the overall energy level go, I prefer it in general to the subsequent three tours. There were some amazing concerts in the last decade as well, but no, none of them rival my favourite Popmart gigs.

I realize Popmart seems more like a failure from a North American perspective, but the concerts overseas were wild and hugely successful. I love some concerts in the 2000s - Slane I is an excellent one - but it's not even close to something like Leeds 1997, which is just tour de force U2. The only "legendary" concert that I was actually referring to was the Sarajevo one, which despite - or almost because of - Bono's voice is one of their most emotional and breathtaking performances. Just listen to Edge's performance on one of their weakest live songs - that being Pride - it is unique in its intensity. Leeds and Santiago hardly have the reputation of the NY Eve concert you mention, and I agree that one isn't even in the top 10 Lovetown concerts (the 26th of December is another story).

Ok, not come off the wrong way, but were you at the Leeds and Santiago shows? What U2 shows have you been too? Just want to get an idea of where you are coming from. Because I'm trying to understand your perspective.

I never said Popmart was a failure. I said the opposite if you read my post. I said it gets a bad rap because of a few shows that did not even come close to selling out. May have been a success in most of Europe, but not in Germany!! Lowest attendance of the tour per capita. Also, U2 barely soldout the 2 nights in Rotterdam and the 2 in London. They had a third planned for both, but the ticket demand was not there. Still a good showing 4 stadiums shows. But on the last three tours they would have and did not have a problem selling out at least 3stadium shows in the same countries. (although I will say it took awhile for some of the 360 shows to sellout or get close to a sellout for a lot of markets, with many stadiums being about 80 to percent full, they were all only "technical" sellouts). The Leeds show you talk about was half of the attendance of the Zoo show at the exact same place.

:lol: guess which Dublin show from Lovetown my friends from back then went to was their least favorite? December 26th, it is a great bootleg I agree, but they said Bono never connected to the audience and the band seemed to be going through the motions on a lot of songs. Like they had a Christmas hangover. So it is all about different perspectives and tastes. They went to all the German shows, Dutch shows and Irish shows on Lovetown. They said the best shows were the Rotterdam shows by far and the 3rd Dublin show. :shrug: Again, the Lovetown tour gets that "legendary" label a lot. I think it was a great tour and I love the bootlegs, but I don't think it was some moment of concert zen on a nightly basis that it sometimes is made out to be. ZooTV gets the same treatment. I saw 9 Zoo shows, they were great, but it was not the greatest thing ever IMO. U2 live is the best, period. I just do not think a single tour is head and shoulders over another and have not been since War or Unf. Fire. All have their unique qualities and downsides to me.
 
I wonder what Axver would say that the band was going through the motions on that night. Especially with those versions of One Tree Hill, Streets and With or Without You...

I'm not sure if the 360 tour would have sold out a third show in London, but that's up for debate. I mostly look at this from a bootleg collector perspective. I have seen U2 on the last three tours. Ironic, isn't it? But I believe a high-quality bootleg gives an unbiased look at the band's performance. The concerts I went to don't offer great sounding bootlegs unfortunately. The vibe when one is attending the show depends on so many different factors. It certainly had that effect on me and I was left underwhelmed by a couple of them, which wasn't necessarily completely the fault of the band. The band can deliver a fantastic performance - like the December 26 one - but one can still have a vastly different perspective on it, as shown on the example of your friends. The 3rd Dublin show and all of the Rotterdam ones are fantastic performances, so that we can all agree on.

What I do feel is that the North American audiences are very much biased towards Popmart. It was a great tour and it had a lot of moments that were very important in the band's history - but it didn't connect with all the parts of the world as ZooTV did, and it certainly didn't have the emotional impact for USA as the Elevation Tour had. Calling it an abyss is absolutely absurd and ignorant. I could honestly care less whether they would have sold out another show in London back then. But what I can say is that it has, along with the peaks of ZooTV and Lovetown, the best concerts I've heard from the band.
 
It would be nice if you could try to think of the world as beyond North America for one second, eh?

Even U2 as a band themselves (and Bono himself) don't think beyond North America most of the time. I wish they had a more global mindset but they don't. A person on the street could be easily forgiven for thinking that U2 is an American band.
 
Also, U2 barely soldout the 2 nights in Rotterdam and the 2 in London.
I don't know about the London shows, but I was at the second night in Rotterdam and it was definitely not sold out. Bono spent most of the first 30 minutes of the show shouting at the empty seats and the people in the VIP area who barely managed to get of their seats for 30 seconds of the POP Muzik / MOFO intro.
Shows in The Netherlands can usually end up being sold out through the amount of U2 fans from neighbouring countries attending the shows!

POP is a good album and probably Bono's best album lyrically. It would definitely be his best album if there also wasn't some complete dirge on it.
Unfortunately it is still my least favourite U2 album.
My main problem is that U2 just didn't seem to commit to any idea of what the album would be like for more than 3 songs in a row.
It seems people on this forum have a clearer idea of what the band was trying to achieve than that the band did itself.

Which brings me to my pet peeve about this album, which is the famous "underlying Concept". A concept that is so all involving to some that even things not fitting the concept at all, mock the concept and therefore are part of the concept.
If the band decides to dress up like clowns - it fits the concept
If they look earnest as hell - it fits the concept
When Bono makes a heartfelt plea related to the peace talks in Northern Ireland - it fits the concept
When Bono decides that the Playboy mansion could serve as a metaphor for something if you try hard enough - it fits the concept.

"Loss of faith in a society with increased consumerism" (paraphrasing very crudely here) is so incredibly broad a theme that you can indeed categorize all the songs on the album under it. It is not truly a very novel or daring concept. U2 itself already covered a lot of it during ZOO TV. So what is the point of this 'concept' really?

If you wanted to you could stretch the theme of ATYCLB to be "looking for hope and salvation though life keeps throwing curve balls" and integrate everything into it too. Wisely though, people don't.
 
i don't really give a shit what the "concept" is, i just enjoy the music :shrug:
 
I wonder what Axver would say that the band was going through the motions on that night. Especially with those versions of One Tree Hill, Streets and With or Without You...

I'm not sure if the 360 tour would have sold out a third show in London, but that's up for debate. I mostly look at this from a bootleg collector perspective. I have seen U2 on the last three tours. Ironic, isn't it? But I believe a high-quality bootleg gives an unbiased look at the band's performance. The concerts I went to don't offer great sounding bootlegs unfortunately. The vibe when one is attending the show depends on so many different factors. It certainly had that effect on me and I was left underwhelmed by a couple of them, which wasn't necessarily completely the fault of the band. The band can deliver a fantastic performance - like the December 26 one - but one can still have a vastly different perspective on it, as shown on the example of your friends. The 3rd Dublin show and all of the Rotterdam ones are fantastic performances, so that we can all agree on.

What I do feel is that the North American audiences are very much biased towards Popmart. It was a great tour and it had a lot of moments that were very important in the band's history - but it didn't connect with all the parts of the world as ZooTV did, and it certainly didn't have the emotional impact for USA as the Elevation Tour had. Calling it an abyss is absolutely absurd and ignorant. I could honestly care less whether they would have sold out another show in London back then. But what I can say is that it has, along with the peaks of ZooTV and Lovetown, the best concerts I've heard from the band.

I think we are just approaching U2 live from completely different perspectives. I completely disagree that a live bootleg is completely representative or even the best indicator of how a concert was. In fact, a lot of the time, I think it is less indicative. This is coming from someone who is a massive collector of U2 audio. Bootlegs seem to be influenced by the quality of the recording (Broadcast, soundboard, great audience capture, etc.) a lot of the time. It is indicative that the Popmart shows you point out are all TV or FM broadcasts. Leeds being probably one the best quality bootlegs of the Popmart tour. I think the December 26th Lovetown show is also a perfect example of this. Like I said, it is a great bootleg. It is a soundboard, and the band plays probably the best version live recorded versions of One Tree Hill and a great version of Streets as you pointed out. That does not mean it was a fantastic overall concert experience in person. The band could have sounded great through the board but never connected to the audience. That does not make it a great show IMO and/or "legendary". Even read the reviews in Pimm's Concert Documentary book of the Dublin shows from Lovetown. He points out some very similiar perspectives about those shows as my friends from the time. A great show encompasses so many things, many objective and subjective. I think that is where we disagree and/or differ on our perspective of what constitutes a great show. As pointed out several times these are all opinions. That is my opinion based on hundreds of bootlegs and seeing U2 in person over 50 times since 1987. I have seen great shows on every single tour. I guess I have preferences for slightly favorite tours. Actually Popmart and Vertigo are probably two of my favorites. But overall each tour has equally great performances to me. I think there can be a concensus on some of the better shows. But again, a lot of the time I think that is influenced by the quality of the recording available.

I pointed out the attendance stuff from Popmart because you make it sound like it was deemed a failure in the U.S. only. Not the case, Euro sales were sluggish in many markets also. But overall, it still sold well. So POP obviously was not connecting on the same level accross the board in Europe either. The same can be said for the U.S. I saw 11 Popmart shows. The shows in Chicago were the best I saw of the 11. It seemed like there was a connection at those shows. I think Bono even mentions that during the Elevation tour, about how Chicago connected to what they were doing on Popmart. I would say there seemed to be a disconnect at maybe 3 shows I saw, 2 of those were near the beginning when the band was still figuring out how to play the songs. I think that had a lot to do with it. My point being a lot of the U.S. connected to it, some did not. Again, its the few bad apples give it a bad rap. A lot of Europe obviously connected to it. But some of Europe did not connect either (Germany) and to a lesser degree some of the other markets I mentioned previously. What I'm getting at is that it was not just a U.S. did not and Europe did thing. It was a combination of both. For most artists their sales figures would have seemed outstanding. But from U2 standards it was slightly sub par. The U2 standard is an incredibly high bar though and it gets an undeserved bad rap as a result sometimes.

Anyway, as I said. I like the POP album. I do think it was rushed more than most U2 records and suffers a bit from that. But still a good overall album. The Popmart tour stacks up with any tour they have done to me. But I would not say it was head and shoulders over any other tour I have seen from U2. Just like any other tour they have done, some fantastic shows in every country and some duds as well.
Sorry this was so long, kind of got on a roll this morning. Too much caffeine!! :)
 
I completely disagree that a live bootleg is completely representative or even the best indicator of how a concert was.

This. Before the dudes who amassed the largest bootleg video collections started releasing rare shows from their collections, cassette/CD boots were all there was. Many of these shows were also filmed, but I never got to see them until a decade or so later. Some - SOME - positively underwhelmed me when I finally got to watch them on video, at least in comparison to the vibe I got from popping in the old CD, putting on my headphones closing my eyes and just getting lost in the audio. Your mind conjures up an image of what it must have been like that night, and that may or may not be entirely accurate.

Conversely, I've attended shows personally, thought they were everything from mind-blowingly amazing to sub-par, and then gotten a distinctly different impression from the audio boot.

Everyone's mileage varies. At Montreal 360, I can't recall which way it was, if it was night 1 or night 2, but I came away mind=blown, only to be told by friends who were at the same show I was that the other night was better. :shrug:
 
I completely disagree that a live bootleg is completely representative or even the best indicator of how a concert was.

It is definitely not an indicator at how the overall concert experience is. Not even close. In terms of band's performance alone, I feel it shows a much better perspective. But the band's performance is only one of many factors to a concert experience in my mind. I have been blown away by some concerts I've seen and then I checked the bootleg and noticed that the performance wasn't that great and vice versa. In the end, it's all relative.

As far as Popmart and its success in Europe goes - sold out concerts are also not necessarily a measure for me as to how much the gig resonated with the audience who did show up. There have been many great concerts in the past where a band was playing to half-empty venues (this has happened more or less with Popmart in NA but nowhere in Europe). All I'm saying is that some of those concerts were fabulous in terms of band's performance, audience interaction and even historical significance (Sarajevo and Reggio Emilia concerts - the latter still being the most attended non-festival show in U2's history).
 
It is definitely not an indicator at how the overall concert experience is. Not even close. In terms of band's performance alone, I feel it shows a much better perspective. But the band's performance is only one of many factors to a concert experience in my mind. I have been blown away by some concerts I've seen and then I checked the bootleg and noticed that the performance wasn't that great and vice versa. In the end, it's all relative.

As far as Popmart and its success in Europe goes - sold out concerts are also not necessarily a measure for me as to how much the gig resonated with the audience who did show up. There have been many great concerts in the past where a band was playing to half-empty venues (this has happened more or less with Popmart in NA but nowhere in Europe). All I'm saying is that some of those concerts were fabulous in terms of band's performance, audience interaction and even historical significance (Sarajevo and Reggio Emilia concerts - the latter still being the most attended non-festival show in U2's history).

Just a couple more comments.

First, you state a bootleg is not an indicator, but you originally sited shows that you did not appear to attend but heard the bootleg as examples of great peformances? Or did you attend Popmart Sarajevo, Leeds and Santiago? Maybe you did? Otherwise you seem to contradict your prior statements with that one.

I stated Popmart was NOT the failure it was perceived to be. I stated some of the very low attendance in some of the U.S. Markets is why this FALSE perception is conveyed a lot of the time. You then stated that maybe it did not connect in the U.S. but it did in the rest of the world as your response. I then explained how the attendance problems were not just a U.S. thing that there were some problems in Europe as well. Then you state you do not care about the attendance. There is clearly a "disconnect" between your responses and what I'm saying. The point is that there was less demand to see U2 in a lot of markets they typically performed strong in and have done so in tours after Popmart and it was not just the U.S. Why would that be? POP and/or the Popmart tour did not connect with as many consumers accross the board would be my guess. :shrug: It did somewhat with me, but there is something to it that simply cannot be arbitrarily dismissed.

I guess I just think/thought your statement that U2 have not even come close to the level of shows on Popmart over the last three tours is way over the top. I guess there is no way for any of us to know unless we attended every single show. But I would say the odds are against you overall on that statement. Yes, I realize it is all opinion. I guess in the end I think you are going to find yourself in the severe minority on that statement with people that have been to all the tours discussed. I guess, why bother going to futher U2 shows if they have not come close since 1997/98 ever? I'm really not trying to argue here, but your point of view and reasoning for it does not register with me. Maybe it is me! :)
 
Back
Top Bottom