Pop album - what went wrong..?

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i've created alternate playlists of R&H, Pop and NLOTH. Here's Pop

1. Pop Muzik/Mofo <studio mock up of the entrance music into Mofo>
2. DYFL
3. Disco. <single edit, chopping the majority of the intro out>
4. IGWSHA
5. SATS
6. Gone <New Mix>
7. LNOE <Zahn Mix, using ald sourced "Cartoon dialouge" from the PopMart performances>
8. IYWTVD
9. N&SOTR
10. Please <Single version>
11. WUDM
 
Its all about what headspace these guys are in at any moment. On how they feel about pop. (or anything really, I heard edge say the second half of JT isn't what it should be)
 
He! Thanks for your tolerance! I think it's great people love Pop, the band really made it as a great statement and it's good to see some people got the message.

If you hit the spoiler button you'd see I was just kidding.
 
I heard edge say the second half of JT isn't what it should be)

I've always felt this way too. TTYW and Exit really drag it down. (I really like Exit live, but feel the album version is a little bit undercooked. Maybe that was the idea).

I'd like to see their tracklisting for the proposed double album JT was supposed to be. Bono said he feels like WOWY doesn't sound right to him unless it's followed by Luminous Times and Walk to the Water, which was his original vision for the album.
 
I think they don't play it simply because they still don't know how to. I'm no musician, so my opinion is really worthless, but I have no idea how they can't figure out an amazing live version of Discotheque. It seems like all the parts are just sitting there, and I don't really get why it's so hard for them to put it back together. It feels so obvious, even if I don't know how.

Sort of off topic here but... I know they did this at a few other shows on the 360 tour, but when I saw them in Denver in 2011, Bono sang the first verse and chorus to Disco while they were in the Crazy Remix outro. I sort of lost my mind and it was one of my favorite parts of the night, haha.

I know the instrumentals don't quite line up with Disco and obviously it wasn't a full arrangement but it was close enough and it worked super well. I might not hear a fully fleshed out version of the song live but this was good enough for me. In a way, because it was stripped back from the original version, it was a little more powerful and straightforward almost. Edge wasn't playing his Disco guitar part which in this case helped as I always thought that never translated well live.
 
Sort of off topic here but... I know they did this at a few other shows on the 360 tour, but when I saw them in Denver in 2011, Bono sang the first verse and chorus to Disco while they were in the Crazy Remix outro. I sort of lost my mind and it was one of my favorite parts of the night, haha.

I know the instrumentals don't quite line up with Disco and obviously it wasn't a full arrangement but it was close enough and it worked super well. I might not hear a fully fleshed out version of the song live but this was good enough for me. In a way, because it was stripped back from the original version, it was a little more powerful and straightforward almost. Edge wasn't playing his Disco guitar part which in this case helped as I always thought that never translated well live.

right the disco/please snippets were common on the final leg of 360.

i saw Gone/Discotheque/SATS at the first Dallas show on the Elevation tour, then Please in Austin the next Elevation show! so i'm glad i got that much!
 
Just looking at some old Popmart footage, those Mofo entrances were completely wild. Their body detail must have been so anxious making that walk every night.
 
I've always felt this way too. TTYW and Exit really drag it down. (I really like Exit live, but feel the album version is a little bit undercooked. Maybe that was the idea).

I'd like to see their tracklisting for the proposed double album JT was supposed to be. Bono said he feels like WOWY doesn't sound right to him unless it's followed by Luminous Times and Walk to the Water, which was his original vision for the album.

I get this. Side A is pretty much perfection on a lot of levels. Not sure how they could follow that iconic sequence. But I never really bought the JT double album charm. I like those b-sides, but not enough to expand the album.
 
yea there's isnt a double album among the b-sides/unreleased stuff that we got with the JT box set. I can see adding Heartland into JT, maybe WTTW, LT but not enough to make a double album. Same with UF, throw some b-sides into the track listing to expand it a lil, but not a double album.
 
I think they should've scrapped If God Will Send His Angels and Miami and replaced them with I'm Not Your Baby (with Sinead) and Holy Joe.

new album line up:

Discoteque
Do you feel loved
Mofo
I'm Not Your Baby
Staring at the Sun
Last Night On Earth
Holy Joe
The Playboy Mansion
Gone
If You Wear That Velvet Dress
Please
Wake Up Dead Man
 
no way IGWSHA is one of my favorites. Holy Joe isn't album worthy. Gonna need to listen to INYB again, im only familiar with the Please b-side Skysplitter mix
 
I think they should've scrapped If God Will Send His Angels and Miami and replaced them with I'm Not Your Baby (with Sinead) and Holy Joe.

new album line up:

Discoteque
Do you feel loved
Mofo
I'm Not Your Baby
Staring at the Sun
Last Night On Earth
Holy Joe
The Playboy Mansion
Gone
If You Wear That Velvet Dress
Please
Wake Up Dead Man

I only like the garage mix for Holy Joe. Guilty mix leaves me wanting more. Garage mix to me is definitely album worthy, though I wouldn't axe any song off of Pop as it is.

Agree that I'm Not Your Baby is a very good song, however. I have both I'm not your Baby and Holy Joe on my own tracklisting of Pop, which includes the single edits for Angels and Last Night on Earth -- both of those are superior to me over the Pop cuts. Please is borderline, I go back and forth on which version is better.
 
There are certainly parts of the single version I enjoy more, but the strings can be a bit much. If they were toned down a bit, it would be pretty close to perfect. Either way, you really can't go wrong with Please. The album version of please just feels more desperate and urgent, whereas the single version, thanks in part due to the strings, makes it feel more forced. The single version of Please removes some desperation and replaces it with over-the-top obvious ...something.
 
I wouldn't take anything off of PoP, its near perfect as it is. The last U2 album that really sounded BOLD and balls of fire on an open flame. That era of U2 really excited me because not only was I young I was also really intrigued with what they were doing. They were globetrotting rock icons who were so far above everyone else in everything they were doing. They had their tower of Babel moment somewhere along the journey and im pretty sure they succeeded.

PoP - those sounds, colors, let the imagination run wild and once it ran you might spend your entire life trying to find it again. That wasn't the problem though, finding it. The problem would be not even trying to find it.

Sadly I haven't felt nearly excited about any U2 release since then. Not to say I haven't enjoyed ATYCLB or HTDAAB and their subsequent tours, to include the 360 Tour. But I can clearly look at Bono and see at times he is a child at heart but also see that time won't leave him alone, and all of the complications that go along with growing up, growing old, responsibility, etc. I get it, I really do. Im perfectly fine with the fact that U2 of the 80's and 90's is clearly a different band than the U2 of today. It just has to be that way, otherwise they probably wouldn't even exist anymore. I just hope they can surprise me and make their special brand of magic in the studio once again. There was a hint of that magic on the last three albums, but nothing like the three preceeding that, PoP, Zooropa, & Achtung Baby. There is more mystique on the Passengers & MDH projects than the whole of ATYCLB, HTDAAB, & NLOTH. That said, I do love most of ATYCLB and the Elevation Tour was very special. While I don't mind Atomic Bomb, parts of it left me a bit cold (no idea why really) and the Vertigo Tour seemed lacking as well. The 360 Tour was a return to the grand spectacle of the 90's U2 which I quite cherished, and the Norman and Nashville show were very special.

I will forever cherish walking around Itaewon South Korea, in Seoul, with my brand new copy of the PoP CD I had just purchased in the base exchange with a friend, and cozying up to a small bar high above the traffic jams and taxi cab violence for a mid-day beer to escape the mayhem. I had pulled out the CD and unwrapped it, looking at it with my buddy while sipping on something cold and refreshing when the young bartended inquired about the new CD I had. I gave it to him and he put it in the bars sound system, playing the first 3 or 4 tracks while we drank our beverages. At first I wasn't sure what I was hearing but I liked it. I was in some kind of orbit about the time MOFO blasted through the bars sound system...the cacophony of sounds was something I wasn't quite prepared for...but it made all the sense in the world to me on that particular day in the cozy bar, above the gridlocked city streets below jam packed with angry drivers honking their horns and screaming at one another and people stepping over each other to make their way through the alleys and the side streets. Just pure fucking sonic blowjob and mind numbing bliss. If they can take me there once again...re-kindle the old flame...I'll renew my vows to follow them to the ends of the earth.
 
I enjoyed reading that post very much.

But it prompts a question: is it them or is it you?

I feel much the same way about ATYCLB, and like you, I was living on a different continent fresh out of school nothing but possibities ahead. I wonder if something hits us at a certain point and just sticks, that it's less about the album and more circumstance.

Might make an interesting thread topic.
 
I enjoyed reading that post very much.

But it prompts a question: is it them or is it you?

I feel much the same way about ATYCLB, and like you, I was living on a different continent fresh out of school nothing but possibities ahead. I wonder if something hits us at a certain point and just sticks, that it's less about the album and more circumstance.

Might make an interesting thread topic.

Thanks...if you are talking to me...I suspect its a little bit of both. When ATYCLB came out I was back here and getting on with life, so to speak, but nowhere near running out of adventures. I think I was 29 when that one came out, so there were plenty of "sticking" moments involved, and plenty of adventure.

Age and circumstance probably do have a lot to do with it all across the spectrum. Another 5 or 10 years I might even elevate HTDAAB or NLOTH in the collections of my head...who knows? But I do maintain that its highly difficult to capture lightning in a bottle on a consistent basis like U2 has so many times for us in the past. I think Pearl Jam has done it with their latest, although that might have something to do with the album title :wink:

I'll forever believe that U2 still has that magic in them, whether they can capture it or not remains to be seen. But with them I guess its just knowing (for me at least) in the end they were able to do it more often than anyone else.
 
I love the title of this thread...where do I begin...:shifty:


To answer the original question of what went wrong, the answer is that Discoteque was the first single. We could discuss all day what should have been the first all important single to kick off U2's new direction, but that would be fruitless. It didn't happen. Most rock radio stations wouldn't touch it. Choosing another song like Please or Mofo might have eased the public's transition into U2's new direction. Discoteque was like a chairshot to the head for a lot of folks and they didn't like what hit them.
 
I'll forever believe that U2 still has that magic in them, whether they can capture it or not remains to be seen. But with them I guess its just knowing (for me at least) in the end they were able to do it more often than anyone else.


That is fuckin' beautiful! :up: That sums up how I feel about them too. :applaud:
 
Thanks...if you are talking to me...I suspect its a little bit of both. When ATYCLB came out I was back here and getting on with life, so to speak, but nowhere near running out of adventures. I think I was 29 when that one came out, so there were plenty of "sticking" moments involved, and plenty of adventure.

Age and circumstance probably do have a lot to do with it all across the spectrum. Another 5 or 10 years I might even elevate HTDAAB or NLOTH in the collections of my head...who knows? But I do maintain that its highly difficult to capture lightning in a bottle on a consistent basis like U2 has so many times for us in the past. I think Pearl Jam has done it with their latest, although that might have something to do with the album title :wink:

I'll forever believe that U2 still has that magic in them, whether they can capture it or not remains to be seen. But with them I guess its just knowing (for me at least) in the end they were able to do it more often than anyone else.


I heartily endorse this post, save the part about Pearl Jam as I really don't follow them at all (not my cup of tea).

Especially like the last paragraph, great way to put it. :up:
 
The single version of Please tries too hard to be Emotional. The album version is one of the strangest, most suffocating recordings of their career. In tandem with WUDM, it's completely unlike anything they've done before or since.
 
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To answer the original question of what went wrong, the answer is that Discoteque was the first single. We could discuss all day what should have been the first all important single to kick off U2's new direction, but that would be fruitless. It didn't happen. Most rock radio stations wouldn't touch it.
The problem with your theory is that all of the above "problems" also apply to "The Fly" as first single from Achtung, Baby. In fact, that single -- in North America certainly, and to a lesser extent, worldwide -- was much less played on radio than "Discotheque", and flopped Stateside. Yet the album did rather well.

Likewise, "Numb" was hardly prime radio fodder, yet Zooropa did as well or better than expected.

I've already summarized my list of "what went wrong" earlier in the thread, but the #1 problem with Pop is that it wasn't that great of an album.
 
Nah, Discotheques video is what i'd say killed the album. No one got the tounge in cheek of if, were as with the Fly you can tell they are dead serious about the new direction. Discotheques video is like they lost a bet and had to do a video dressed like the Village People.

I wasn't aware Zooropa was a success, or even noticed by anyone over here in the states. Much like Pop it came and went without a word. I will say i heard SATS on the radio alot during the Pop era, i've only ever heard Stay on the radio, and that was rare. Then again i may of just been to young to notice Numb or Stay being played as i was 11 or 12 when Zooropa came out.
 
I wouldn't take anything off of PoP, its near perfect as it is. The last U2 album that really sounded BOLD and balls of fire on an open flame. That era of U2 really excited me because not only was I young I was also really intrigued with what they were doing. They were globetrotting rock icons who were so far above everyone else in everything they were doing. They had their tower of Babel moment somewhere along the journey and im pretty sure they succeeded.

PoP - those sounds, colors, let the imagination run wild and once it ran you might spend your entire life trying to find it again. That wasn't the problem though, finding it. The problem would be not even trying to find it.

Sadly I haven't felt nearly excited about any U2 release since then. Not to say I haven't enjoyed ATYCLB or HTDAAB and their subsequent tours, to include the 360 Tour. But I can clearly look at Bono and see at times he is a child at heart but also see that time won't leave him alone, and all of the complications that go along with growing up, growing old, responsibility, etc. I get it, I really do. Im perfectly fine with the fact that U2 of the 80's and 90's is clearly a different band than the U2 of today. It just has to be that way, otherwise they probably wouldn't even exist anymore. I just hope they can surprise me and make their special brand of magic in the studio once again. There was a hint of that magic on the last three albums, but nothing like the three preceeding that, PoP, Zooropa, & Achtung Baby. There is more mystique on the Passengers & MDH projects than the whole of ATYCLB, HTDAAB, & NLOTH. That said, I do love most of ATYCLB and the Elevation Tour was very special. While I don't mind Atomic Bomb, parts of it left me a bit cold (no idea why really) and the Vertigo Tour seemed lacking as well. The 360 Tour was a return to the grand spectacle of the 90's U2 which I quite cherished, and the Norman and Nashville show were very special.

I will forever cherish walking around Itaewon South Korea, in Seoul, with my brand new copy of the PoP CD I had just purchased in the base exchange with a friend, and cozying up to a small bar high above the traffic jams and taxi cab violence for a mid-day beer to escape the mayhem. I had pulled out the CD and unwrapped it, looking at it with my buddy while sipping on something cold and refreshing when the young bartended inquired about the new CD I had. I gave it to him and he put it in the bars sound system, playing the first 3 or 4 tracks while we drank our beverages. At first I wasn't sure what I was hearing but I liked it. I was in some kind of orbit about the time MOFO blasted through the bars sound system...the cacophony of sounds was something I wasn't quite prepared for...but it made all the sense in the world to me on that particular day in the cozy bar, above the gridlocked city streets below jam packed with angry drivers honking their horns and screaming at one another and people stepping over each other to make their way through the alleys and the side streets. Just pure fucking sonic blowjob and mind numbing bliss. If they can take me there once again...re-kindle the old flame...I'll renew my vows to follow them to the ends of the earth.

PRECIOUS POST.
For me, POP is high above anything they did since then. There's so much meat and bones and soul and LIFE on that album that it's...I have no words for it.
To compare POP, or AB or Z for that matter, with any of their 00's albums it's just...kinda depressing...I love most of their 00's songs, I really do, but IN CONTRAST with their previous work it just lacks in so many aspects.
 
There are certainly parts of the single version I enjoy more, but the strings can be a bit much. If they were toned down a bit, it would be pretty close to perfect. Either way, you really can't go wrong with Please. The album version of please just feels more desperate and urgent, whereas the single version, thanks in part due to the strings, makes it feel more forced. The single version of Please removes some desperation and replaces it with over-the-top obvious ...something.

Agreed on this. I've always found the single version a bit overwrought, whereas the sparseness of the album version perfectly conveys a sense of people being at the end of their ropes.
 
I've already summarized my list of "what went wrong" earlier in the thread, but the #1 problem with Pop is that it wasn't that great of an album.

If quality mattered with regards to sales, the radio would sound a whole lot different.
 
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