Is U2 too optimistic?

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dward1

The Fly
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In the results page Axver commented on Beautiful Day's optimism saying something to the effect that optimism isn't a good thing generally in songs. Now, one of the things that I love about U2 and the thing that sets them apart and makes them a better band than a more technically proficient band like Radiohead is U2's optimism, hope, belief in people, and joy they inspire. Now I understand that you can't simply roll out an album full of optimistic songs but what U2 does best is optimistic anthems. Now, does this hurt them and do you like their optimistic stuff better than their darker stuff?

Examples of optimistic songs
Beautiful Day
Where the Streets Have No Name
A Sort of Homecoming

Darker
Exit
Mofo
Acrobat
Peace on Earth

etc, etc.
 
I do not think U2 are too optimistic when their material is taken as a whole. I think they have normally done a good job balancing a wide spectrum of emotions without giving undue weight to any particular one. The October, UF, and JT albums are particularly good examples of the band comfortably managing diverse emotional expression.

However, I favour their darker material, or at least that with a subtle rather than overt optimism - for example, I would not consider ASOH an optimistic song in the same league as Beautiful Day's bash-you-around-the-head-with-it optimism. Plus, I just have a hard time relating to overly optimistic music. I am not an optimistic person (being a historian will probably do that to most people), and I find music I can actually connect with to be far more uplifting than a song like Beautiful Day is ever going to be. Sometimes that sort of over-enthused optimism just seems depressing. Perhaps I'm being a bit inconsistent, given my love of Gloria, but there is some kind of sincerity in Gloria that I can connect with - and I suppose any position needs its exception.
 
I don't have a problem with optimism, but i will say that U2 are definitely guilty lately of OVERDOING IT.

I love Beautiful Day, I think it was the right song at the right time for them, and it was the first of its kind for them, an over the top anthem of optimism.

Where The StreetsHNN: I find that to be more about escaping than actual optimism.

One is not an optimistic song,at least not lyrically. many people find the music to be comforting, and that's the point. The music was always the optimistic counterpart to what was going on lyrically with U2.

A Sort Of Homecoming: I don't find this one to be optimistic, I just think it's beautiful and abstract. There's a certain haunting quality to the music. Does it pump me up when i hear it? Yea...so i guess it puts me in a good mood, but then again so does Sunday Bloody Sunday, not the most cheery song. I think lyrically ASOH is what it set out to be. It's a poem. It's not pointing to any particular feeling or emotion. It's images. It's scenery. What is really going on? I dunno, and i don't care.

Back to Beautiful Day...i said i loved this song, i always will, but i hate what it spawned. I think everyone all of a sudden around the world said "ahh yes, this is the real U2!" and U2 also fell for it. And from that point on their objective was this: "every hit song of ours must contain a reassuring and optimistic message." That's what killed U2 this decade. Beautiful Day was a mixed blessing.
 
You can never be TOO optimistic, especially in times like this.

U2 making uplifting music that gives people HOPE is the biggest reason for me to love them.

They are totally anti-cynical, that's what I love about them. And this thread is making me really mad. Without hope and optimism, there's hopelessness and dispair. I'm so glad U2 aren't going there. There IS darkness in their music, but there is almost always hope, too.
 
last unicorn said:
You can never be TOO optimistic, especially in times like this.

U2 making uplifting music that gives people HOPE is the biggest reason for me to love them.

They are totally anti-cynical, that's what I love about them. And this thread is making me really mad. Without hope and optimism, there's hopelessness and dispair. I'm so glad U2 aren't going there. There IS darkness in their music, but there is almost always hope, too.
Click to expand...

I think what is different about the pre-2000 U2 and the post, is that in the past the optimism bled thru with the music, not necessarily with the lyrics. The Joshua Tree may sound optimistic, but i ask you, where is that in the lyrics? You'll find that the lyrics for the most part are grounded in reality, and there's no reassuring words of wisdom to really hold on to. All you have is the sound of the music, and that's where the comfort lies.

That's the difference between the U2 of old and the new U2.

I don't look to U2 to give me hope for humanity. I recognize that they're merely a band. I'm just looking for great music. POP and AB are two of their darkest albums, and they make me really optimistic when i listen to them. That's what good music does to you. It makes you feel alive. It doesn't have to hold you, caress you, coddle you, and say "there there, everything is going to be alright, Bono will fix the world."

The new Depeche Mode album made me feel optimistic. Is Depeche Mode's music optimistic? HELLLLLLLLL NO!!!!!

I rest my case.
 
It's good to be optimistic, I guess.

They're not too optimistic, just the right level, their catalogue has a perfect balance of dark and optimistic songs.
 
Not optimistic per se, but they always had hope in their music.
I don't think I like the more hopeful songs better than the dark ones.
 
I think one of the main problems with "Ill go crazy" is that the lyrics are so optomistic that it almost seems cheesy. The "young audience" that U2 is trying to seek out are usually confused with their own identity and dont want to hear too much about rainbows and sunshine. A little optimism is always good, but I much prefer songs that are not only darker...but deeper.
 
zooropop40 said:
A little optimism is always good, but I much prefer songs that are not only darker...but deeper.
Click to expand...

I saw this to the lead up to NLOTH, lots and lots of posts saying Bono needs to be darker, poetic, and deeper again... And I know this is not what you are saying, but many in here equated "darker" with sounding "deeper". I think it's a common trap.

We find words like 'desperation' to sound more "poetic" than 'peacefulness'. That's why(and this is just a recent example brought up in here) Martin Gore has been labeled a better lyricist than Bono, but to be honest I think Martin ran out of ideas in the early 90's and has been rewriting the same themes over and over since then with different words.
 
I don't think they are optimistic at all, that's just some subversive spin on why people like U2. (uplifting and other clichés) U2 songs are generally very dark, without becoming defaitist.

A quick scan of JT gives nine dark songs, a couple of which (Exit, BTBS and RTSS) are very dark: No optimism whatsoever!

HTDAAB is marginally better, COBL, Vertigo and MDrug are neither optimistic nor dark. But Vertigo was derived from a much darker song.
LAPOE, is very dark without any hint of optimism. idem Fast Cars, or STYCMIOYO.

AB is even easier: all dark. "Low points", UTEOTW, Zoo Station, LIB, Acrobat, the Fly.

Last example, Boy:
at least three songs abouth death,
two about suicide,
one about (Violent) psychiatric treatment, how is that optimistic?
The songs not dealing with heavy and dark subjects are escapist in nature. (ie Stories)

BTW Beautiful Day is a terrible example of so called optimism. It's lyrics are incredibly cynical; it's irony baby, but not as we know it.
 
I think justified optimism is wonderful; I hate simplistic optimism that's trying to win over the charts backed by a crappy melody. The Cure had some preposterous sounding songs, but they were wonderfully original and had amazing melodies. The Cure was far better at that kind of thing than U2, which often sounded phony.

That said, most U2 songs pre-2000 are amazing, period.

So, maybe it has little to do with optimism and pessimism for me, than poorly conveyed emotions post-1999, including some of the new album.
 
elevated_u2_fan said:
I've never thought of the Cure as being optomistic... It might have to do with Smith's voice and persona though...
Click to expand...

Well they have written songs like 'Just Like Heaven', 'Mint Car', 'Friday I'm in Love' which I find to be very cliched almost silly like...

I was a huge fan of the Cure for a long time, but the more pop songs of their always bugged me. Now I don't really know about their last few albums, I stopped paying attention to them for I feel like they've become characatures of their former selves.
 
eviltwin said:
I don't think they are optimistic at all, that's just some subversive spin on why people like U2. (uplifting and other clichés) U2 songs are generally very dark, without becoming defaitist.

A quick scan of JT gives nine dark songs, a couple of which (Exit, BTBS and RTSS) are very dark: No optimism whatsoever!

HTDAAB is marginally better, COBL, Vertigo and MDrug are neither optimistic nor dark. But Vertigo was derived from a much darker song.
LAPOE, is very dark without any hint of optimism. idem Fast Cars, or STYCMIOYO.

AB is even easier: all dark. "Low points", UTEOTW, Zoo Station, LIB, Acrobat, the Fly.

Last example, Boy:
at least three songs abouth death,
two about suicide,
one about (Violent) psychiatric treatment, how is that optimistic?
The songs not dealing with heavy and dark subjects are escapist in nature. (ie Stories)

BTW Beautiful Day is a terrible example of so called optimism. It's lyrics are incredibly cynical; it's irony baby, but not as we know it.
Click to expand...

I agree with your point on Beautiful Day....I see it as more ironic than optimistic. Then we follow that song with a song about suicide (Stuck in a Moment).....if you know about the subject of that song, then that song is really quite sad and depressing.
 
eviltwin said:
I don't think they are optimistic at all, that's just some subversive spin on why people like U2. (uplifting and other clichés) U2 songs are generally very dark, without becoming defaitist.

A quick scan of JT gives nine dark songs, a couple of which (Exit, BTBS and RTSS) are very dark: No optimism whatsoever!

HTDAAB is marginally better, COBL, Vertigo and MDrug are neither optimistic nor dark. But Vertigo was derived from a much darker song.
LAPOE, is very dark without any hint of optimism. idem Fast Cars, or STYCMIOYO.

AB is even easier: all dark. "Low points", UTEOTW, Zoo Station, LIB, Acrobat, the Fly.

Last example, Boy:
at least three songs abouth death,
two about suicide,
one about (Violent) psychiatric treatment, how is that optimistic?
The songs not dealing with heavy and dark subjects are escapist in nature. (ie Stories)

BTW Beautiful Day is a terrible example of so called optimism. It's lyrics are incredibly cynical; it's irony baby, but not as we know it.
Click to expand...

I like this post.
 
No way Beautiful Day was written as irony. They were completely serious and straightforward when writing it and it's twisting the song to say it's ironic and cynical.
 
U2's so called 'optimistic' songs are mostly songs acknowledging that even in bad time's there's still hope

if that's being too optimistic ...
well
 
eviltwin said:
I don't think they are optimistic at all, that's just some subversive spin on why people like U2. (uplifting and other clichés) U2 songs are generally very dark, without becoming defaitist.

A quick scan of JT gives nine dark songs, a couple of which (Exit, BTBS and RTSS) are very dark: No optimism whatsoever!

HTDAAB is marginally better, COBL, Vertigo and MDrug are neither optimistic nor dark. But Vertigo was derived from a much darker song.
LAPOE, is very dark without any hint of optimism. idem Fast Cars, or STYCMIOYO.

AB is even easier: all dark. "Low points", UTEOTW, Zoo Station, LIB, Acrobat, the Fly.

Last example, Boy:
at least three songs abouth death,
two about suicide,
one about (Violent) psychiatric treatment, how is that optimistic?
The songs not dealing with heavy and dark subjects are escapist in nature. (ie Stories)

BTW Beautiful Day is a terrible example of so called optimism. It's lyrics are incredibly cynical; it's irony baby, but not as we know it.
Click to expand...


Amen, brotha. That's what I've been saying all along.

U2 an optimistic band?? Did anyone ever bother to read the lyrics?

You're right about Beautiful Day, it's optimistic in the face of tragedy. I wouldn't say cynical...but it is a little ironic that a day where you lose everything can somehow be beautiful.

What I don't like about Beautiful Day is what it spawned. It ushered in a whole new phase for U2..."U2: the optimistic singles act". I was hoping they'd flush all that crap out of their system on the new record, but unfortunately they just couldn't part from it..that's why we get CT, SUC and even Breathe is ruined (in my opinion) by this lyrical obligation and responsiblity to instill hope in every listener. Maybe I'm just too cynical for this band. And I don't mean the past U2, I mean the U2 of the past 5 years. NLOTH feels like it would've been a complete album, but then HTDAAB had to stop by for a visit and drop off their obnoxious kids (CT, SUC, Breathe...and to some degree GOYB).

As for your other observations, the ones i don't agree on:

LAPOE: this is as chiched or corny as you get concerning the subject of war. We need love and peace? Uh, yea DUH! Gimme a friggin break!

Miracle Drug: how could you not see this as optimistic? It's saying that love will conquer science, conquer sickness, conquer medicine. Not only is it optimstic, it's incredibly naiive, not to mention cheesy as hell in certain select lines (i'm sure you know the one i'm referring to)

COBL: This song exists for one reason, to make the listeners feel better about themselves. "oh you look so beautiful tonight". Why thank you Bono. That's very nice of you. Where are you by the way? Are you spying on me? How were you aware of my stunning beauty on this one particular evening? Hmmmmmm?

I'm starting to ramble now. U2 can be optimistic all they want. I can't stop them obviously.
 
From Wild Honey, that "jingly" pop tune that many here love to hate (I enjoy this one). On the surface, judging just on sound alone, this sounds "optimistic". By sampling the lyrics, it doesn't sound so "sweet" to me. Sounds more like a song about disappointment about something that should be "sweet" but turns out to be sour.
I don't think U2 are optimistic, but more realistic. They want to be optimistic, but they understand the struggles to be this way. They struggle with it just like we all do. That part of the music is very effective and is why so many can relate to them. People may feel "optimistic" by listening to U2, but that's just because they may feel a little less alone because they can relate to the lyrics.
 
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