This wasn't rocket science. I'm not sure how many Elevation shows you went to, but it was first come first serve. As long as you were in the front of the line you could pretty much get the spot you wanted. These were arenas not stadiums so no Rose Bowl type GA line.
Is this true about the Boston DVD
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This wasn't rocket science. I'm not sure how many Elevation shows you went to, but it was first come first serve. As long as you were in the front of the line you could pretty much get the spot you wanted. These were arenas not stadiums so no Rose Bowl type GA line.
U2FanPeter
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Tacoma 2001 had someone walking around selling unused pit wristbands.
Vancouver 2001 they allowed 175 people on one side and 175 on the other which messed up a bunch of those who'd done the process before.
I was given a pit wristband by a u2 crew member at another 2005 show.
Another 2001 phenomenom was fans getting a pit wrist band then walking back out ot he main floor to be at the "tip of the heart". They had the option to go inside the heart for the encore or something, but also denied other entry to the pit.
I was addressing a particular post which implied that the Boston people in the front of the line were somehow doing something shady to get first row FOS during the Elevation tour.
All those examples you give have nothing to do with this, particularly the 2005 example since that was a totally different ballgame.
U2FanPeter
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I would say that many hardcore fans took advantage of an "honor" system used in 2001.
U2FanPeter
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
All those examples you give have nothing to do with this, particularly the 2005 example since that was a totally different ballgame.
So you can say with impunity that nobody in 2001 got upgraded by a crew member? I was offered an upgrade with an unused authentic wristband for $100 at Tacoma 2001. In 2005 a crew member gave me an upgrade.
I didn't say that at all.
Are you not understanding my original post? What I said was that during Elevation if you were in the front of the line you pretty much had your choice of spot.Sorry but the people that were upgraded, or slipped on an old wristband would not be standing in the center FOS or have their choice of spot since all of the sought after spots would have already been taken by the people who were in the front of the line, unless of course you pushed yourself into one of those spots, which again is not what the Boston people were doing since they were in the front of the line to begin with.
What part of my post are you having trouble understanding? And I repeat, 2005 was a totally different story.
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VintagePunk
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I can't speak to the selling of wristbands (not sure if you're saying the crew or fans sold them), but in '05, it was very common for crew members to hand out extra wristbands. Nothing shifty about that. I got in that way, too, a couple of times.
But Rosa's right, that has nothing to do with what happened in Boston, because those 20 people obviously would have gotten wristbands by virtue of being the first 20 in line.
U2FanPeter
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Does FOS mean "front of stage"?
Partyslammer
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I was addressing a particular post which implied that the Boston people in the front of the line were somehow doing something shady to get first row FOS during the Elevation tour.
All those examples you give have nothing to do with this, particularly the 2005 example since that was a totally different ballgame.
There were pretty simple ways to "beat" the system to not only get in the pit as often as one wanted, but to get right up on the rail for both the Elevation and Vertigo tours and this one as well. The biggest, most annoyingly pervasive problem of the Elevation tour was the same groups of fans following the band around the country (and even globally) who saved spots for friends in the GA line. Like a tag team, one or two people would spend a day or more at the front of a line and a few hours before the doors opened, literally dozens of their pals would show up. The next show, it would be someone elses' turn to do overnight line duty. Then you had self-important "line monitors" who would "police" the GA line yet give their pals cuts up front.
As someone else pointed out in this thread, swapping wristbands, transferring hard stamps... there were even a small group of (very obnoxious) female fans who followed the band around the US in '01 who were savvy enough to find a company that sold the same type of blank wristbands used on the tour and had appropriate graphics printed on them as well as making fake laminated VIP Access badges at Kinkos. And as for the Vertigo tour, all one had to do was watch carefully while in the GA line going into the venue to get their ticket scanned by the person with the laptop for "random" pit access to make sure there was about 5 - 7 people between the last person who got "lucky" and you and you'd almost always beat the odds, especially if you were with a friend (you'd space a few people between you and your friend). There's a few long time fans I've seen at shows since the late 80's who make it a point to know the band's staff.
Sadly, no "fair" method is going to stop the few obsessive diehards who feel they can game the system to be close enough to their heroes. Every band has their share.
T.B.
These people lost their minds. The management could have handled it better but four rows back requires protests and weeping? The post said that some of these people had been to the last 20 shows. If this was the first show for these people I could understand but how can you have sympathy for people seeing the band for the 20th straight time? If they really cared about the band they would have: a) talked to management about a refund or compensation or b) enjoyed the show from inside the heart. What they did was selfish and affected the show for the other fans. Let's talk about those other fans for a second. How many of those people had ever been inside the heart or in the first five rows at a U2 show? The earlier post from one of those people even used the dreaded "real fans." When you affect the performance of the band and the enjoyment of the audience you become a hypocritic in using that expression. Three rows back and they were protesting when others would dream of those spots. Again, these people lost their minds.
Exactly!
It wasn't like anyone was moved up to the last row of the balcony, and all these people had been up front every damn show on the tour to that point.
I can see why U2 would have wanted different faces up at the front- we know Bono is relatively selective in the girls he chooses to bring up, so its not too far of a leap to say they may have wanted some "attractive, youthful" types up there.
That being said, I have no trouble believing that U2 and their security team were secondary in this entire process. Of course, they implemented the policy and knew what was happening, but the film crew/HBO(who they take their directions on how to make the place look best from) probably told them at 4PM what they were planning to do at 5:30. At that point, the only option, as others said, was to avoid even the remote possibility of anyone getting out of hand at hearing the news. I have seen crowds at almost every show imaginable and I can tell you unequivocally that U2 crowds are probably the most calm, classy, knowledgeable, enthusiastic and genuinely caring people out there. However, that does not mean that there does not exist some minority of screwballs that would take a swing at someone. The odds of them being there in that crowd of 20 to 100 truly dedicated fans who know each other? Not very good, but security operates on 1 word when it comes to this, no matter where in the world it is or what crowd they are dealing with: LIABILITY. IF YOU CAN MINIMIZE THE RISK OF PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION OF ANY KIND AS A CONCERT SECURITY MANAGER, YOU DO IT. THATS THE FIRST THING YOU LEARN IN TRAINING.
Allow me to explain.
I work security at concerts in Boston, have worked at the venue in question many times (Boston Garden, formerly the Fleet Center) with a company that LiveNation hires for backstage, stage line and soundboard security. We are not involved with the crowd or entry procedures. However, having worked 2 360 shows and the Somerville theatre show on 3/11/09, I have met and worked closely with everyone on U2's security team. They are all first class people, Scott Nichols and Jerry Meltzer, are the co directors of security and the co owners of their company, Sequel Tour Solutions. Scott and Jerry are the best, cool, calm, collected, very good at communicating in a verbal and non verbal way(important when you are working the front of stage and can't hear yourself think or feel anything but Larry's cymbal crashes and Adam's bass go through your chest and bones!).
I can guarantee you the crew knew exactly what kind of band U2 are and what kind of fans they have and their relationship with said fans. They knew if they had asked the night before or 2 days before for permission to do what they did, U2 either would have said "no" or "ok, but we're telling them before hand, compensating them in some way, etc." They figured the way to avoid that was to ask at the last minute, play it off as a "we know what looks good to the world and know it best" and U2 agreed.
Why?
1.)Trust me, things are crazy with touring crew, local staff, opening acts, catering, band members, executives, etc all running around backstage by late afternoon at a show as big as U2. This is not the time that anyone in U2 management with a ton on their mind would be in the mood to get in a fight with the camera crew filming the big DVD for the big, "hey, look at us we're on top of the world again" tour.
2.)Interacting with #1 was U2 band members already being a little irked with seeing the same faces every night. For whatever reason, perceived or actual, U2 had noticed a declining enthusiasm from this bunch as the shows went on. I submit that is only natural, whether they realize it or not. This, in their mind was a good way to get different faces up front, and thats probably all they were thinking about, probably not how, logistically, that was going to happen.
BOTTOM LINE-To protest because you are in the heart a few rows from the front is completely childish and lacks all perspective as to what is important at a U2 show, to say nothing of perspective on what is important in life. I know, different strokes for different folks, but I have equally enjoyed seats behind the stage on Vertigo, working at the stage front in Somerville, "working" but standing by the soundboard at Boston 360 #1 and sitting up in the mezzanine, opposite end zone from the stage for Boston 360 #2.
I purchased GA for Philadelphia 360 and seats for Montreal 1 360. Why did I get GA? I don't know, just to try it once. Do I have any intention of lining up at 4 AM to get to the front of the main stage or the rail or any other choice spot? I don't know, but probably not. I'll be happy with about 10 rows back from the outer rail, lined up with a speaker stack shooting right at me. I don't want the half assed sound while looking straight up at the band the entire show. I like it LOUD.
All I know is to me, its not a big deal where I am for the show, and I could not imagine it being so big a deal as to sit down and cry like a baby when you don't get your way. I can understand those who prefer to be down front, but really, if that has already happened for you 20 times, even if its your ideal spot, it should not be that big of a deal.
People need perspective. U2 is always good to us, always goes out of their way for us, works their asses off and plays their hearts out every single show, they never miss shows because someone got arrested, in a bar fight, beat their wife, had to go to rehab, etc. They would never take a group of girls they wanted some "personal" time with back stage up front nor do they attract and encourage Hells Angels and those types down front.
One time in particular, a Motley Crue show, things really got out of hand. I took down a Hell's Angel from behind and had his face in the ground(well deserved, he bowled over an usher, collapsed a lung and split her head open in the process). The next person that came up on me, before my rushing to help co workers, was a Motley Crue security guard throwing water on me and trying to pull me off the biker who had just assaulted a 61 yr old usher!! Thank God my big boss, the owner of my company had seen it and rushed over and put him in a chokehold, otherwise I would have had a 6'5 steroid crazed Motley Crue guard beating me down. So one night at work, home from school to help my boss out on a weekend turned into about 6 court appearances and me partially paying to hire a private investigator to determine where the Hells Angels' threats to me were coming from and how to put an end to it. I wasn't worried too much, they are mostly talk, I've seen the real gangs(Irish, Italian mobs) in Boston throw them out of bars and then smash up their bikes, but it was scary nonetheless. And uncalled for at a concert.
Maybe its just the fact that I have worked at all of these other shows that I have perspective, but it should be obvious to anyone here that the story I told above would NEVER HAPPEN AT A U2 CONCERT. It reminds me of the time out in Arizona in 1985 on the UF tour, when Bono stopped the show to yell at fans who were fighting each other. "No one gets hurt at a U2 concert." He means it, security means it, and believe it or not, that sets them apart from the security that travels with a lot of other bands, who actually encourage and defend violent thugs against local security.
Protesting a band that works so hard for us and does the right things by their fans and their fellow man everywhere by sitting down during a broadcast show in an era where all these diehards certainly knew Bono was struggling every night to turn in a good performance is unacceptable for U2 fans.
Write a letter expressing dissatisfaction with how it was handled? Of course. Get McGuiness' attention or better yet, Bono or Edge or Larry's at another show they go to? Of course. Ask to have some kind of restitution? Of course. But doing it in the way they did it was uncalled for and clearly pissed off the band and made them less likely to listen to their concerns and make them whole somehow.
Sorry for the long post!
EDIT: Not just as a reaction to these fans' behavior, but in general, I really do like the Vertigo concept of a lottery. Everyone is equal who bought a GA ticket, and has equal chances of getting scanned into the inner circle. I understand first come, first served and all that, but it is not realistic for all fans(work, travel) and they are not any less fans for not being able to make it at 5 AM.
blueeyedgirl
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Wow. Just wow.
What really got up my nose about Dave's post is the continual mention of "20 of the biggest fans in the country". Who is to say that a fan that sees U2 live 40 times is a bigger or better fan than one who isn't? Cos I've only seen them 10 times in over 26 years makes me lesser? Cos you want to sleep on the footpath for 20 hours makes you more entitled? Some may have more time or money or opportunity, but it doesn't make them a "bigger" fan.
More I re-read my post, more it sounds like teenage boys going on about penis size...
What really got up my nose about Dave's post is the continual mention of "20 of the biggest fans in the country". Who is to say that a fan that sees U2 live 40 times is a bigger or better fan than one who isn't? Cos I've only seen them 10 times in over 26 years makes me lesser? Cos you want to sleep on the footpath for 20 hours makes you more entitled? Some may have more time or money or opportunity, but it doesn't make them a "bigger" fan.
More I re-read my post, more it sounds like teenage boys going on about penis size...
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Ohhhh. Yeah. THAT.
That sort of thing is some serious dickhattery. I don't care how much people defended that/their behavior in past threads, it's just inconsiderate.
Partyslammer
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That's the only Mexico City incident I've heard of, and for Sydney, I assume he's talking about the Adam thing?
Yeah, you have approx. a 50% chance that something will go askew if you attend a filming. Not great odds.
Yeah, those are the two incidents I was referring to. Just about everyone with even a casual interest in the band knows about them so it's not like I was trying to be coy.
Although in reference to the one reply, Jerry Mele wasn't pistol whipped, he was actually driven over by a SUV when he took the rather ill-advised stance of laying down on the ground in front of the Mexican President's son's security detail's car to keep them from driving in a restricted part of the venue.
T.B.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Yowch! I had the "pistol whipped" thing in my head because just yesterday I was browsing through that U2 Live book and it said he'd been hit over the head with a gun.
But now reading your post, I recall reading that about the SUV as well.
Have to admit, I'm a little relieved that's what you were talking about, and not something seedier.
But now reading your post, I recall reading that about the SUV as well.
Have to admit, I'm a little relieved that's what you were talking about, and not something seedier.
Wow, I guess I was lucky because for the Elevation shows that I decided to do the camp out for (only 3 of the 20 I attended) I didn't have dozens of people show up right before the doors opened and I was able to get the spot I wanted.
However, again I was addressing a very specific post about the people in the Boston incident, so I'm still not clear what that has to do with these responses to my post.
I'll say it for the 3rd time, Vertigo was a totally different ballgame. There were tons of scams, some that haven't even been mentioned here yet.
And yes FOS means front of stage.
Partyslammer
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Like I've said, that person's comments were just one of a number involved in that whole thing and there's actually even more pathetic "Woe Is Me" stuff regarding this incident that was posted on various forums at the time.
My take:
Yeah, it was a blunder on the part of the film production guys and from all accounts the band and McGuinness knew about it soon after it happened that night and took some heat for it themselves rightly or wrongly. On the other hand, some fans overblown sense of entitlement who got "cheated" earned them no sympathy in the following days.
T.B.
U2FanPeter
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I think "same faces at every show" could mean upwards of the 150 closest to the stage including a couple dozen repeat attenders. Think 5 rows up against the front rail. Early in the 2001 was actually a surprisingly well kept secret so fans could show up at 3pm and still get in those 5 rows if they were assertive.
I just think that their GA plan wasn't working as they had hoped running up the Boston show.
BTW, didn't they "repeat" some wristband colours in 2001 which "repeat attenders" could simply reuse and get within 5 rows of the stage when they arrived at 6pm?
Did anyone forge wristbands in 2005? The UV light thing would be tricky but not impossible.
I just think that their GA plan wasn't working as they had hoped running up the Boston show.
BTW, didn't they "repeat" some wristband colours in 2001 which "repeat attenders" could simply reuse and get within 5 rows of the stage when they arrived at 6pm?
Did anyone forge wristbands in 2005? The UV light thing would be tricky but not impossible.
Partyslammer
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Yowch! I had the "pistol whipped" thing in my head because just yesterday I was browsing through that U2 Live book and it said he'd been hit over the head with a gun.
But now reading your post, I recall reading that about the SUV as well.
Have to admit, I'm a little relieved that's what you were talking about, and not something seedier.
Well, Adam's Sydney party meltdown that led to him missing the 1st night's show supposedly involved an orgy. I'll have to dig out my dusty copy of "Until The End Of The World" to re-read about that one.
T.B.
Partyslammer
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corianderstem
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Oh, that wouldn't even make me bat an eye. I was thinking you had some sordid tale of fans being mistreated by management or film crew or something.
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
I completely agree. I *hate* that, and if any of the Boston people in question did that, my opinion about what happened at this particular show does not absolve them of that.
For what purpose? This thread was suppose to be about the Boston incident that occurred during the Elevation Tour.
Partyslammer
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I think the fact that there's really almost no negative comments regarding how anyone involved in U2 has treated their fans on a personal or professional level is why that whole Boston incident has stood out to such a degree over the years. It has really proven to be an uncharicteristically odd "blip" in the band/fan relationship.
T.B.
Partyslammer
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Uh, ok. So why the comment/tease at all then? And it's not like this thread has already branched off into other areas.
T.B.
coolian2
Blue Crack Supplier
it seems to have expanded into a general ga toolishness thread, and since these vertigo scams were five years ago there can't be much harm with sharing....for educational purposes, of course
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
I dunno ... there was that one time Bono totally kicked me in the head and then pointed and laughed at me.
..... but that might just have been a dream. I'm not sure - Edge and Adam were also there, dressed in togas and weaving flower necklaces for each other, so I'm pretty sure it was a dream.
Tease? That's actually comical.
I think you can find most of these scams in the multitude of GA threads over in the tour forums (Vertigo & 360). Again, this thread is suppose to be about the Boston incident during the Elevation Tour.
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Partyslammer
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coolian2
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oooh yeah thanks that's fantastic
No spoken words
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Such focus. 
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