If Rattle & Hum had been studio-only...

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The general feeling of the U2-community tends to be that Rattle & Hum, while a worthy record in the cannon (either brilliant or average, depending on one's taste) would have been better served as either a single-disc studio album, or perhaps two discs with one studio & one live. This stems from the opinion that the mix of live and studio didn't really work on the official release (an opinion I happen to share).

Rattle & Hum was certainly an odd piece of product for a band to put out at the height of its commerical capacity. I can't think of any major records before it that mixed brand-new studio tracks with recent live tracks (or any since, for that matter). Clearly, the band were trying to put out a "touch-all-bases" record: one that showed their direction of blues-influenced roots rock, that continued their commercial success, that supplied a movie soundtrack, and -- what I think is most significant -- that worked as a kind of slapdash, "we're not trying that hard to craft a perfect album", scrapbook kind of polished bootleg. I think it was this latter conceit that led to the mixing of the live tracks in with the studio tracks. They may also have felt, initially, that they didn't have enough new songs to construct an entirely new record in time for the film's deadline; I don't know.

At any rate, the final release has 9 new studio tracks, which I think are all of a very high quality (there isn't one track I don't like amongst them). As with The Joshua Tree's singles, the B-sides at this time were also outstanding, most notably, as far as originals go, "Hallelujah, Here She Comes".

So, my question is: How much better would Rattle & Hum have been received, and how highly would we evaluate it today, if it had been released as a studio-only album?

My thinking is that it would have aged much better, and, while it wouldn't scale the heights of the two albums that frame it, it would be considered another of the classic U2 records. I really think those studio songs, produced by Jimmy Iovine, are strong.

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I think had R&H only consisted of the studio-cuts, it would have been much better received at the time and would be regarded much more highly today.

For a band as big as U2 were at that point, there was no way they'd be able to get away with such a disjointed and confused effort, I suppose they really did play into the critics hands.

When you look at it; the merging of live tracks and studio tracks without any real conhesion, the bands visual image, Bono's apparent meglomania (with some of his off the cuff comments on stage being a real source of irritation for the media), plus the whole circus that surrounded the film, it all felt like way too much, and its a real shame because most of the studio-tracks on R&H are of the highest quality, IMO they are still amongst the best the band has ever produced, but they ended up getting overlooked and being forgotten about because of everything else going on around them.

In all kinds of ways it captures the band at their pinnacle, the performances are bursting with energy and vitality, Bono had matured as a lyricist (he knows exactly what he wants to say and as a result his lyrics are far more potent and perceptive) and he had also become an absolute powerhouse of a singer, IMO if you look at any other U2 album before or since, Bono never sounds more confident as a vocalist than on R&H. When Love Comes To Town is a pretty tough song to sing, but he just breezes through it.

Despite its flaws (or maybe because of them) I still think R&H is one of the bands most interesting albums (commercially it sold by the bucket load), and had they stripped it back into something far leaner without any of the fuss surrounding it, it would have been seen as a strong follow up to JT, maybe a backlash could well have been avoided as well. With that said, the backlash inspired the band to go off and do AB so I guess it was something they needed to go through.
 
I think an album consisting of the following songs would be considered a U2 classic:

Desire,
Heartland,
She's a Mystery to Me,
Slow Dancing,
All I Want Is You,
Angel of Harlem,
Hallelujah Here She Comes,
God Part II,
Hawkmoon 269
 
I probably would agree - opening the album with "This is a song Charles Manson stole from The Beatles, and we're stealing it back" was a really, really poor choice.
 
I made myself a CD-R with a tracklist similar to this

01. Desire
02. Hawkmoon 269
03. Angel Of Harlem
04. Hallelujah Here She Comes
05. Van Diemen's Land
06. Love Rescue Me
07. When Love Comes To Town
08. Heartland
09. God Part II
10. A Room At The Heartbreak Hotel
11. All I Want Is You

That would be a top 5 U2 album for me.
 
DevilsShoes made some excellent points, I think.

Despite its flaws (or maybe because of them) I still think R&H is one of the bands most interesting albums (commercially it sold by the bucket load)

I'm glad you mentioned the actual success of R & H commercially. My post concerns how the album would have been viewed for posterity (or at least, from today's vantage point), not how it would have affected its popularity back in '88. In truth, I don't think the album could have been bigger than it was.

Because of historical revisionism, I'm not sure if the younger U2 fans who don't remember the 80s realize how BIG Rattle & Hum was. I mean, EVERYBODY I knew had this album. Even my older sister's best friend had it, and her taste in music was more in line with Duran Duran and New Kids On The Block...

It was a *much* bigger record commercially than ATYCLB or HTDAAB.
 
The live/studio mix did make the album somewhat uneven, but without the live part there wouldn't be no Silver and Gold, which is one of my favourites on the album. It's a shame the best DVD tracks like Exit or With or Without You (easily the best version ever) weren't on the record, maybe instead of Pride (dull) or Helter Skelter (meh).

Albeit the biggest problem is in some of the studio tracks - Love Rescue Me and When Love Comes To Town are really bad IMHO.
 
I probably would agree - opening the album with "This is a song Charles Manson stole from The Beatles, and we're stealing it back" was a really, really poor choice.


While I agree with this statement now, at the time this version of Helter Skelter was what got me into U2. Dad had R&H, and when I was about 12 or 13 I pushed play on the CD player and this came on, and I was hooked at that point.
 
The live/studio mix did make the album somewhat uneven, but without the live part there wouldn't be no Silver and Gold, which is one of my favourites on the album. It's a shame the best DVD tracks like Exit or With or Without You (easily the best version ever) weren't on the record, maybe instead of Pride (dull) or Helter Skelter (meh).

Albeit the biggest problem is in some of the studio tracks - Love Rescue Me and When Love Comes To Town are really bad IMHO.

U2 hve always struggled to re-craete Pride live but IMO the version on R&H is easily one of my favourites. Totally agree with LRM and WLCTT but that still leaves 7 original songs which IMO are all great.
 
I love most of the studio tracks and i love most of the live tracks
but it's just not a coherent album and I don't think it would have been a coherent album either without the live tracks

I do think its the band at the top of their game though
 
whats the remastered deluxe edition going to look like?

i personally am looking to seeing 2 cds, one of studio tracks, of which alot of people have suggested around here

and the second cd containing live recordings
 
Rattle and Hum was always gonna be massive, it was Joshua Tree's successor....

I think most people would have been underwhelmed, if they expected R&H to be on par with JT in terms of quality....
 
While I love most of the studio tracks on R&H, I'm underwhelmed by most of the live tracks, I think they are pathetic. The main problem for me is that R&H is simply too long, that's why I hardly listen to it. When I get the CD out and start listening to it again, it always occurrs to me how many classic U2 songs can be found on it. What I love most about it is the fact that it ends with All I Want Is You, a perfect closer and beautiful song. Apart from that, it's a indicisive, incoherent album for me and it's not always easy to listen to it, I always skip a couple of songs.
 
I think you're kind of right, despite that R&H was unique for U2, for the public and for that era in the way it was released.

Anyway, I think that R&H could easily be as great as JT if it was the studio cuts only.

1. Hawkmoon 269
2. Van Diemen's land (fading away into Desire's opening riff)
3. Desire
4. When love comes to town
5. Love rescue me
6. God Part II
7. Angel of Harlem
8. Heartland
9. A room at the heartbreak hotel
10. All I want is you

Slow dancing, Hallelujah (Here she comes), She's a mystery to me as huge b-sides, it'd make a perfect album.
 
Rattle and Hum was always gonna be massive, it was Joshua Tree's successor....

I think most people would have been underwhelmed, if they expected R&H to be on par with JT in terms of quality....

Exactly. A release so soon after a classic like The Joshua Tree had bad odds of being a success. Especially considering that it was in the same vein musically. With Zooropa, there was a difference compared to Achtung Baby.

Had it been only studio songs, it wouldn't have been a success in the public but would be really liked by the fans.
 
I'm amazed about the fact that U2 had the ability to release AB after R&H. I do enjoy all the studio cuts off of R&H, but the live cuts just make for a messy album. Though the version of Pride is pretty epic, best live version ever.

My choice of order would have been:

1. Desire (Epic opener telling everyone were still around & loud)
2. Hawkmoon 269
3. Van Dieman's Land
4. Angel Of Harlem
5. When Love Comes to Town
6. Heartland
7. God Part II
8. Love Rescue Me
9. All I Want Is You
 
I honestly don't mind the live tracks.. I actually wish there were more from the movie. Most of the performances were great. Some were really corny looking back at them- But hey that was cool at the time.
Except for All Along the Watchtower. I never liked that version.
And I really wish Van Diemen's Land didn't fade into a random interview with clanking coffee mugs.
But I have to say I like the live tracks on the album more than most of the album. I like Angel of Harlem, Desire, and All I Want is You. That's about it. Everything else sounds boring to me.
 
It was a *much* bigger record commercially than ATYCLB or HTDAAB.

In terms of U.S. sales, R&H is certified as 5x Platinum. SoundScan didn't exist back then, so we don't know the exact sales. ATYCLB is certified as 4X Platinum, but has sold aboutg 4.3M copies in the U.S. to actual consumers.

In other words, it's quite possible the sales of the two albums aren't that far apart.

The movie grossed a little over $8M in the U.S. That's not a bad sum for the time, considering it was also a documentary. In today's dollars, that would be about $15M, but perhaps the whole cinaplex/multiplex aspect could have given it a push to $20 (and keeping in mind U2's popularity at the time).

U2 can't and won't recapture that. They were young and the big hot group. Now, they are older and there are plenty of young groups around. Yet, for AYTCLB to sell 4.3M copies and for HTDAAB to sell about 3.2M copies (U.S. only), in an era of illegal downloads, is impressive. Not many acts today have sold that well. Add in sales across the world and U2 have sold over 22M copies from their last two albums (about 12M from ATYCLB and 10M from HTDAAB). Not quite JT heights, but again, given where U2 are, not bad. Also, given that U2 supposedly came off their "big flop" (with "Pop"), this is also impressive.

All that aside, I do feel that this double album should have been one album of live material and one of new material. Make it a real album (of 11 songs) and then thrown in a "best of" of the UF/JT era material that fans hadn't heard live before (on an album).

As for the movie, while it did O.K. (as I wrote above), I think this should have been a straigh-to-video release. U2 did that with ZOO TV releases and they sold tons. Far better move there, IMO.
 
A couple months ago I made this playlist for RH as a studio album-

Van Dieman's Land (leave in the audience noise- it adds something to the song IMO, but take out the interview segment)
Desire
Hawkmoon 269
Hallelujah Here She Comes
Angel of Harlem
Love Rescue Me
When Love Comes To Town
Heartland
God Part II
A Room At The Heartbreak Hotel
All I Want Is You

Essentially just taking out the live stuff and leaving the original tracklist in place, and splicing in two U2 original b-sides that were released during the era. I really like ARATHH before AIWIY, I like the play between a loud raucous song and then the epicness of AIWIY
 
A couple months ago I made this playlist for RH as a studio album-

Van Dieman's Land (leave in the audience noise- it adds something to the song IMO, but take out the interview segment)
Desire
Hawkmoon 269
Hallelujah Here She Comes
Angel of Harlem
Love Rescue Me
When Love Comes To Town
Heartland
God Part II
A Room At The Heartbreak Hotel
All I Want Is You

Essentially just taking out the live stuff and leaving the original tracklist in place, and splicing in two U2 original b-sides that were released during the era. I really like ARATHH before AIWIY, I like the play between a loud raucous song and then the epicness of AIWIY

i really like this track list. could you imagine this album, with their previous opening track being as big as Where the Streets Have No Name, opening with Van Diemen's Land? brilliant IMO. then Desire and Hawkmoon, and Hallelujah Here She Comes, a top-notch song, to round out the first part of the album. then the 3 B.B. King songs (i might switch WLTCTT and Love Rescue Me). Heartland next (what a gem), followed by God Part II, and then the most underrated b-side of U2's career, A Room at the Heartbreak Hotel -- this song is amazing: Bono's voice, Larry's drums, Adam's awesome bassline, and, did i mention Bono's voice? amazing. end the album with All I Want is You, needing no explanation. this album would have kicked ass.
 
i really like this track list. could you imagine this album, with their previous opening track being as big as Where the Streets Have No Name, opening with Van Diemen's Land? brilliant IMO. then Desire and Hawkmoon, and Hallelujah Here She Comes, a top-notch song, to round out the first part of the album. then the 3 B.B. King songs (i might switch WLTCTT and Love Rescue Me). Heartland next (what a gem), followed by God Part II, and then the most underrated b-side of U2's career, A Room at the Heartbreak Hotel -- this song is amazing: Bono's voice, Larry's drums, Adam's awesome bassline, and, did i mention Bono's voice? amazing. end the album with All I Want is You, needing no explanation. this album would have kicked ass.

Putting VDL first with the little bit of audience noise would sort of a subliminal way to congratulate themselves on the success of JT and the tour:wink: ok that and it would be neat to start with an Edge vocal, as his other three- Seconds, Numb, and Corpse are in the middle of their albums
 
I always felt the studio version of Silver and Gold, Hallelujah Here She Comes and a slightly re-worked Room at the Heartbreak Hotel could have fit onto an all studio song Rattle and Hum. Still, even with those songs it kind of would have been a weak album.

1. Hawkmoon 269
2. Van Diemens Land
3. Desire
4. Angel of Harlem
5. Heartland
6. Silver and Gold
7. God Part II
8. When Love Comes to Town
9. Hallelujah Here She Comes
10. A Room at The Heartbreak Hotel
11. All I Want Is You
12. Love Rescue Me
 
I think an album consisting of the following songs would be considered a U2 classic:

Desire,
Heartland,
She's a Mystery to Me,
Slow Dancing,
All I Want Is You,
Angel of Harlem,
Hallelujah Here She Comes,
God Part II,
Hawkmoon 269

Actually Slow Dancing wasn't written until the year after R&H was released - and even then it wasn't complete until 1992.
 
I would've make it different... a double CD, live + studio

01 - Where The Streets Have No Name
02 - I Will Follow
03 - I Still Haven't Found... (with choir)
04 - Running To Stand Still
05 - Exit
06 - In God's Country
07 - With Or Without You
08 - Pride (In The Name Of Love)


01 - Van Diemen's Land
02 - Desire
03 - When Love Comes To Town
04 - Angel Of Harlem
05 - God Part II
06 - Heartland
07 - Love Rescue Me
08 - Hawkmoon 269
09 - All I Want Is You


that way, we have the absolute BEST of JT live (as seen on the R&H movie, and we get a soft-start, furious-beggining, soul-filling middle, love-full return to end it all with a bang



and I would include WLCTT live, like in the R&H movie, but completely live, not like the movie
 
i have to agree, the live tracks take attention away from the new tracks. this hurt the album ...
 
I actually quite like the fact that they opened with Helter Skelter, especially in the film. Though I would also have liked to have been a studio track only album. Rattle and Hum-Lovetown is one of U2's best periods and as many have said and Bono's voice was at it's best.
Songs like Desire and All I Want Is You are all time classics.
The only changes I would have made would have been to include slow dancing and make Hawkmoon 269 have the same arrangement as the live version.
 
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