Has Bono Ever Publicly Apologized For Anything?

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You're taking this way, way too seriously.

I'm not trying to distort anyone's perceptions, I made clear what my points were and wanted to end the discussion. Then you responded directly to me, so I jumped in to tell you it's really not that important.

Something else is the issue with you if you're this angry and childish here.Nothing you said changes the fallacy of your original argument.

All you want is the satisfaction of convincing yourself you've "won" a stupid argument on an internet forum.

That's about the only thing you've made clear in this thread.

Goodbye.

You really are hopeless. Primarily what I wanted is useful discussion and found very little with you.

Good luck.

:wave:
 
I see that all of you had a very nice Saturday.

How about going out to dinner and enjoy valuable time with friends and family now? :)
 
Songs that have been played at U2 concerts, 2000-present (I probably missed one or two, whatever):

Boy (5) - I Will Follow, An Cat Dubh/Into The Heart, Out of Control, Stories For Boys, Electric Co.
October (2) - Gloria, Scarlet
War (3) - Sunday Bloody Sunday, NYD, 40
Unforgettable Fire (5) - ASOH, Pride, TUF, Bad, MLK
Joshua Tree (8) - Streets, Still Haven't Found, WOWY, Bullet, RTSS, In God's Country, One Tree Hill, Mothers
R&H - (4) Desire, Angel of Harlem, Love Rescue, All I Want Is You
Achtung Baby (9) - Zoo Station, EBTTRT, One, UTEOTW, WGRYWH, The Fly, Mysterious Ways, Ultraviolet, Love Is Blindness
Zooropa (3) Zooropa, Stay, The First Time
Passengers (2) - Your Blue Room, Miss Sarajevo
Pop (5) - Discotheque, Staring At The Sun, Gone, Please, Wake Up Dead Man

80s average: 4.5
90s average: 4.75

themoreyouknow.gif
 
Songs that have been played at U2 concerts, 2000-present:

Boy (5) - I Will Follow, An Cat Dubh/Into The Heart, Out of Control, Stories For Boys, Electric Co.
October (2) - Gloria, Scarlet
War (3) - Sunday Bloody Sunday, NYD, 40
Unforgettable Fire (5) - ASOH, Pride, TUF, Bad, MLK
Joshua Tree (8) - Streets, Still Haven't Found, WOWY, Bullet, RTSS, In God's Country, One Tree Hill, Mothers
R&H - (4) Desire, Angel of Harlem, Love Rescue, All I Want Is You
Achtung Baby (9) - Zoo Station, EBTTRT, One, UTEOTW, WGRYWH, The Fly, Mysterious Ways, Ultraviolet, Love Is Blindness
Zooropa (3) Zooropa, Stay, The First Time
Passengers (2) - Your Blue Room, Miss Sarajevo
Pop (5) - Discotheque, Staring At The Sun, Gone, Please, Wake Up Dead Man

80s average: 4.5
90s average: 4.75

themoreyouknow.gif

We were talking about total number of plays...not number of songs...but thanks...
 
Yeah, but the claim is that U2 is embarrassed of the 90s. Clearly not as much as the early 80s.
 
Yeah, but the claim is that U2 is embarrassed of the 90s. Clearly not as much as the early 80s.

That was never the claim...and that word was never used.

Please - no more distortion.

Interestingly, they played as many songs from the first 3 albums as the last 3 (of course this is never what we were discussing in this thread anyway but interesting nonetheless.)
 
Considering Passengers is mostly instrumentals, not much there they'd be likely to play. Slug? Corpse? Elvis Ate America? Your Blue Room was pretty much the only other song we were going to hear, as they respected it enough to put it on the Best Of 1990-2000.

If we're talking about the last three albums that actually consist of songs that would be played in a concert setting, you're looking at 17 tracks, not 10. Compared to the 10 from the first three albums.
 
Songs that have been played at U2 concerts, 2000-present (I probably missed one or two, whatever):

Boy (5) - I Will Follow, An Cat Dubh/Into The Heart, Out of Control, Stories For Boys, Electric Co.
October (2) - Gloria, Scarlet
War (3) - Sunday Bloody Sunday, NYD, 40
Unforgettable Fire (5) - ASOH, Pride, TUF, Bad, MLK
Joshua Tree (8) - Streets, Still Haven't Found, WOWY, Bullet, RTSS, In God's Country, One Tree Hill, Mothers
R&H - (4) Desire, Angel of Harlem, Love Rescue, All I Want Is You
Achtung Baby (9) - Zoo Station, EBTTRT, One, UTEOTW, WGRYWH, The Fly, Mysterious Ways, Ultraviolet, Love Is Blindness
Zooropa (3) Zooropa, Stay, The First Time
Passengers (2) - Your Blue Room, Miss Sarajevo
Pop (5) - Discotheque, Staring At The Sun, Gone, Please, Wake Up Dead Man

80s average: 4.5
90s average: 4.75

themoreyouknow.gif

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but it seems that they played 27 songs from the 80s and 19 from the 90s. Your average of the amount of tracks played from each album is an absurd distortion of what they played. Maybe you're distorting it purposefully to prove a point, or maybe you're trying to make another point.

One thing to consider when looking at a list of songs they played is that frequency of performance must be considered if we're going to judge representation of decades.
 
Yeah, but the claim is that U2 is embarrassed of the 90s. Clearly not as much as the early 80s.


You're comparing a decade to a few years. A more accurate comparison would be 80-84 and 93-97, the four year periods that bracket their commercial peak.

They're played more songs from 80-84 than 93-97, 15-10.
 
They're played more songs from 80-84 than 93-97, 15-10.

...Resulting a per-album average of 3.75 and 3.33, respectively. Minute difference, especially because, after removing the non-U2 album, 93-97 ends up with an average of 4. U2 relies on I Will Follow, Sunday Bloody Sunday and New Year's Day to represent 80-84, but over the past decade, U2 has been more likely to play a Pop song than anything else from October or War (which troubles me; I wish they would realize how awesome Rejoice and Like A Song could be live).

U2 has nothing to hide, and they haven't done so. The difference in representation is so small between the two decades as to be statistically insignificant. U2 has a larger number of 80s hits that inflate the frequency scores; they have to play these songs every night. The 90s netted fewer concert staples. However, they have actually rotated in a greater variety of 90s material. And Achtung Baby does most assuredly count, unless you're willing to claim that it isn't informed by the same "artsiness" as its fellow 90s U2 records.

We could discuss *why* 90s material doesn't stick, but to claim that U2 glosses over the decade entirely is a bit absurd. To bring this full circle, clearly U2 has no desire to apologize for their "artsy" years. If anything, they tend to surprise their fans with tracks from those albums (as opposed to 80-84) because they know they're worth playing. There just isn't a large enough audience to keep them on permanent rotation.
 
...Resulting a per-album average of 3.75 and 3.33, respectively. Minute difference, especially because, after removing the non-U2 album, 93-97 ends up with an average of 4. U2 relies on I Will Follow, Sunday Bloody Sunday and New Year's Day to represent 80-84, but over the past decade, U2 has been more likely to play a Pop song than anything else from October or War (which troubles me; I wish they would realize how awesome Rejoice and Like A Song could be live).

U2 has nothing to hide, and they haven't done so. The difference in representation is so small between the two decades as to be statistically insignificant. U2 has a larger number of 80s hits that inflate the frequency scores; they have to play these songs every night. The 90s netted fewer concert staples. However, they have actually rotated in a greater variety of 90s material. And Achtung Baby does most assuredly count, unless you're willing to claim that it isn't informed by the same "artsiness" as its fellow 90s U2 records.

We could discuss *why* 90s material doesn't stick, but to claim that U2 glosses over the decade entirely is a bit absurd. To bring this full circle, clearly U2 has no desire to apologize for their "artsy" years. If anything, they tend to surprise their fans with tracks from those albums (as opposed to 80-84) because they know they're worth playing. There just isn't a large enough audience to keep them on permanent rotation.

For the record, I am the one who made the assertion about Bono being apologetic for their being "arty" in the 90's in front of American audiences during the 01 tour. MY OPINION, after listening back a couple of times is that it was not as apologetic as I had initially perceived (which I have already stated in this thread)...although still moreso than he should be as I don't think even a hint of an apology is in order. Put another way for those who have and might want to pound my nuts in with a sledgehammer over semantics, I was surprised that he approached the subject of their 90's work in that way and something about it still makes me uneasy. Part of it is perhaps that they then went on to play "Stay" with just the Edge.

Despite your personal preference, it takes less work and rehearsal to play it that way and I find that disappointing as for me, it is a lazier approach towards one of my top 3 favorite U2 songs. If you are especially proud of a song, why not put the work in to make it the best live version possible? Heck, even Willie Williams wants them to play it full band so that must mean something.


ALSO, no one ever claimed that "U2 glossed over the decade entirely" so it is absurd to even state that someone did in this thread. People have claimed in this thread that I am distorting things so I have to say that it was / is irritating when others obviously do so.


Apart from running the numbers and personal preference / opinion, U2 have, clearly, backtracked in regards to their experimentation (or, at the very least - for the semantics freaks - that particular brand of experimentation) in the 90's and I already re-clarified my position to that end so I'm not sure why you are attempting to debate an (old) assertion that has already been re-stated by the person who made it.

I stated several factual reasons to back this up (including the rock remixes of Pop songs) but since I already posted those several times I'm not going to waste more time typing them in word for word yet again.

Lastly, I respect and appreciate some reasonable and logical debate but, at this point, for me, it is a little late as I am already burnt out by all of the arguments that were anything but to put much more time into this topic...
 
...Resulting a per-album average of 3.75 and 3.33, respectively. Minute difference, especially because, after removing the non-U2 album, 93-97 ends up with an average of 4. U2 relies on I Will Follow, Sunday Bloody Sunday and New Year's Day to represent 80-84, but over the past decade, U2 has been more likely to play a Pop song than anything else from October or War (which troubles me; I wish they would realize how awesome Rejoice and Like A Song could be live).

U2 has nothing to hide, and they haven't done so. The difference in representation is so small between the two decades as to be statistically insignificant. U2 has a larger number of 80s hits that inflate the frequency scores; they have to play these songs every night. The 90s netted fewer concert staples. However, they have actually rotated in a greater variety of 90s material. And Achtung Baby does most assuredly count, unless you're willing to claim that it isn't informed by the same "artsiness" as its fellow 90s U2 records.

We could discuss *why* 90s material doesn't stick, but to claim that U2 glosses over the decade entirely is a bit absurd. To bring this full circle, clearly U2 has no desire to apologize for their "artsy" years. If anything, they tend to surprise their fans with tracks from those albums (as opposed to 80-84) because they know they're worth playing. There just isn't a large enough audience to keep them on permanent rotation.

The difference, which you say is minute, is greater than the difference in your original post, a difference which is supposed to prove a point.

You're mad if you think that, over the last decade, U2 are more likely to play something off Pop than a song than anything from October.

On the last two tours they played Discotheque twice, Scarlet 45 times and Gloria 19 times. But the key to your statement is "anything else," which acknowledges that they do play songs from War, whereas they do not from Pop. Over the last two tours they played one song from Pop (twice), and three from War and October that aren't SBS or NYD ... and they played them 127 times. So that's 126-2 for October + War vs Pop. 64-2 for October, 63-2 War. It boggles my mind that this shit isn't evident to you, or many others in this thread.

I'm not saying they gloss over the 90s, just that they play more songs from the 80s, and with greater frequency. To argue otherwise is insane. There are surely reasons for that - more material, more hits, the songs fit thematically, etc - but all of those points prove that U2 give their first decade more representation in concert than they do their second.

Your average of songs per record is worthless unless you're comparing albums individually because it doesn't say anything about how they may or may not favour some eras. You can stretch it and say that it shows that some albums have an advantage, or that they released more records. But mostly is says nothing. It's a meaningless statistic.

On 360 they played two songs from Zooropa, the same as from Boy, one less than War, two less than Unforgettable Fire, and one more than October. Since 40 wan only played once, you can subtract that and will see that 2 War tracks were played over twice as frequently as 2 Zooropa tracks.

They played OST 1 songs 74 times (and since they were both on the best of 90-00, and blue room was a bside, Passengers must be considered a U2 album), 25 more than Boy but half as many as War, and each record got two songs.

Also, they played no songs from Pop on 360, and they played 22 different songs from the 80s and 13 from the 90s.

On Vertigo, Discotheque was played twice. The First Time 29 times. Miss Sarajevo 86. From Achtung they played seven songs, LIB only once. That's one reason why looking at what songs they played is meaningless for this debate. They played 10 songs from the 90s, compared to ten from 80-83.

On Elevation they played 11 songs from the 90s, compared to 18 from the 80s, and Dead Man is more of a snippet than full airing of the song (2.75 vs 3 per album,oooh, wait that means nothing).

You can use meaningless averages to force numbers to fit your idea, or you can accept reality. I don't see what you have to lose by doing the latter.


ps
I don't see how you can say that they surprise fans with selections from 93-97 more than the early 80s. Here's what they've played from the early 80s: I Will Follow, Out of Control, An Cat Dubh, Into The Heart, the Ocean, Electric Co, Scarlet, Gloria, 40, Sunday Bloody Sunday, New Year's Day. Aside from IWF, SBS, and NYD, they were all retired for over a decade, were not hits or on the best of.

From 93-97: Zooropa, the First Time, Stay, Blue Room, Ms Sarajevo, Discotheque, Gone, Dead Man, Please, Staring at the Sun. At least five of the 80s songs were real shocks. All but two of those were hits or on the best-of, and the Pop songs were all played and retired (save for two appearances of Discotheque) on the tour that followed Popmart.
 
Put another way for those who have and might want to pound my nuts in with a sledgehammer over semantics, I was surprised that he approached the subject of their 90's work in that way and something about it still makes me uneasy. Part of it is perhaps that they then went on to play "Stay" with just the Edge.

Despite your personal preference, it takes less work and rehearsal to play it that way and I find that disappointing as for me, it is a lazier approach towards one of my top 3 favorite U2 songs. If you are especially proud of a song, why not put the work in to make it the best live version possible? Heck, even Willie Williams wants them to play it full band so that must mean something.


Have to agree with this sentiment.

Neutered version of Stay makes me die a little inside each time I hear it.
 
Have to agree with this sentiment.

Neutered version of Stay makes me die a little inside each time I hear it.

Yea...

A slight correction is that it was Joe O'Herlihy who said (in reference to U22) "The standout track? Well that gives me a chance to squeeze in another song. It has to be 'Stay (Far Away So Close)'. Now if we could only get the band to play a full band version of this song, maybe next tour."

As has been pointed out, I am not perfect.

Hey now, check your change...:shrug:
 
Why should the 90s fanboys be thrilled? Over the last three tours, the 80s got 2613 performances, the 90s 1573. The 80s got over 1000 more performances than 90s tracks. Looks pretty irrefutable to me.

In 2001 they played songs from the 80s 1028 times. 90s tracks were played 573 times. Also, Dead Man was more of a snippet than full performance.

Their set in 2005, when 113 of 125 of Vertigo shows took place, featured 1025 from the 80s. and 420 songs from the 90s, and 330 of them were from Achtung. Hardly a good showing for the 90s. That's 2.4 times as many performances of songs from the 80s as the 90s.

On 360 they played around 580 from the 90s, and 560 from the 80s so the trend has been broken, but not strongly enough to amount for the mockery directed at the guy who said it's irrefutable that they played more from the 80s than 90s. They played nearly 1200 songs from the 00s, but that makes sense since it's their most recent material.

U2 Album Statistics: 360° Tour | setlist.fm

They released more albums in the 80's. So there goes that "proof". 00's got more played because they're fresh (though note the tanking of NLOTH songs and Zoo TV 2.0 shoving of AB in the setlist on 360).

This still doesn't change that 3 Zooropa songs got out on the 00's tours (including a song that didn't even get played on Zoo TV), or the fact that 5 Pop songs were present on Elevation. Or that 2 PASSENGERS songs came out on 00's tours. The comeback of Batman song. This is hardly something to complain about. But back to song _____ being played 4,5634342343 times and beating the 90's tunes...
 
They released more albums in the 80's. So there goes that "proof". 00's got more played because they're fresh (though note the tanking of NLOTH songs and Zoo TV 2.0 shoving of AB in the setlist on 360).

This still doesn't change that 3 Zooropa songs got out on the 00's tours (including a song that didn't even get played on Zoo TV), or the fact that 5 Pop songs were present on Elevation. Or that 2 PASSENGERS songs came out on 00's tours. The comeback of Batman song. This is hardly something to complain about. But back to song _____ being played 4,5634342343 times and beating the 90's tunes...

Let me see if I can understand what you're saying:

They released more albums in the 80s.
So they play more songs from the 80s.

And this disproves my point? It provides a reason for why they play more songs from the 80s, which is what I'm proving - over and over. My point is that they play more songs from the 80s and 00s than 90s. I'm not debating why. Nor am I denying that they played five Pop songs on Elevation, but isn't it even more noteworthy that since then they've only played Discotheque twice?

And yes, they played Stay 48 times on in 01, the First Time 29 times in 05/06, and Stay 30 times and Zooropa 28 times in 09/10. That's around 140 Zooropa tracks over roughly 350 concerts. Boy songs got 199 plays over 125 gigs in 05/06 alone. Pop tracks got 133 showings since Popmart. Unforgettable Fire tracks got 169 performances on the Elevation tour. Passengers songs got 160 performances on the last two tours. On 360 Passengers songs were played 70 times. UF songs? 191.
 
Statisically speaking, if you play a song only 33.7% of the time is it considered an apology? Or is it only when it's played 33.6 or less % of the time. Can someone please clarify when it becomes an apology?
 
Statisically speaking, if you play a song only 33.7% of the time is it considered an apology? Or is it only when it's played 33.6 or less % of the time. Can someone please clarify when it becomes an apology?

See post #192.

If you're going to go back on your word and keep posting in this thread then at least try and keep up.
 
Statisically speaking, if you play a song only 33.7% of the time is it considered an apology? Or is it only when it's played 33.6 or less % of the time. Can someone please clarify when it becomes an apology?

Anything less than 33.3 counts as an apology. Bono chose that ratio to represent his status within the masons.
 
he really should apologize for his association with a greedy land developer

U2 guitarist may get a second chance at Malibu mansions - latimes.com


This is appalling for a variety of different reasons. Using their influence to get a good table, that I can accept. But Edge is just behaving like another rich fucker using his power to influence government to serve him. How about that democracy thing, eh? I love how Bono is out there walking on with Miss Burma 2012 while his genius-denying guitarist is out there manipulating democracy to fill his wallet.
 
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