Has any band ever recovered after starting to suck?

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I'm still looking for the comparisons of those songs...

Oh okay, I see what you were getting at.

The fact that NLOTH and Magnificent remind me of Achtung Baby and Fez reminds me of Bad, is not a provable statement. They just do. (And, again, this is totally irrelevant to this thread's premise).

But if you're genuinely curious, I'm happy to try to explain it!

Fez uses the same guitar effect as Bad and has a similar mood and speed. I think this is the easiet comparison to make. Listen to Fez starting at 1:34 and 2:44 - you'll see what I mean.

As for the other two songs, I actually got the order backwards. What I meant to say is that NLOTH reminds me of Ultraviolet and Magnificent reminds me of Zoo Station.

The reverberating guitar on NLOTH is very similar to Ultraviolet. Listen to NLOTH starting at 1:15.

The first 20 seconds of Magnificent (the fuzzy guitar) is very similar to the opening guitar riff in Zoo Station.

Actually, NLOTH reminds me of Zooropa a lot as well - they are similar in their opening sound effects and their intense vocals (the verse on NLOTH, e.g. "I know a girl, hole in her heart", and around the "I hear voices, ridiculous voices" part on Zooropa).

I didn't say that these 3 songs are somehow re-issued versions of the old songs or anything like that. I was just stating the reason why I think I like them so much: because they remind me of those songs (Bad being my favorite U2 song, AB being my favorite album, and Zooropa, the song, just being an amazing piece of music).
 
Do you think that NLOTH on the whole is *every bit as good* as any album before ATYCLB? When I say *every bit* I really mean "every track".

Simple answer: YES.

IMO, U2 have never even started to "suck", their last two albums were very personal and also commerically very successful, with some beautiful and great songs and two amazing tours. Far from "sucking".

And NLOTH is everything but "mediocre", especially if you compare it to the rest of their 00 output, which, while good, was more "basic/typical U2", NLOTH is different, it's exciting.

Honestly, I cannot name one album or tour or era when U2 started to "suck".

And what's that with all the comparisons? Of course you will always find similarities if you search hard enough. With everyone, not just U2. Of course a band like U2 will have moments that are similar to other moments they've had, musically, in their 30+ carreer. It would not be realistic to suggest everything they do sounds 100% unlike anything they've done before. If you try hard enough, you'll always find something, but some peoples' problem is exactly that: Not enjoying the music enough, but instead over-analyzing it, looking too hard for stuff to complain about.
 
Btw, you should have changed the title of your thread. This is not about "any" band, as your title, misleadingly, says, but in the end only about U2. Why aren't you at least brave enough to write U2 into your thread title?
 
For me, NLOTH has 3 amazing songs on it (the aforementioned ones), a couple of decent ones like MoS, one song that sounds blatantly ridiculous [1] because it's over-the-top Elvis Costello, and a few songs which combine some amazing fragments with some framents that really make me cringe (examples given earlier). So on the whole, this album, like the 3 preceding albums, "has its good and it has its bad".

On the contrary, (again this is only for myself), not a single second of music recorded by U2 prior to Pop ever made me cringe. Sure a few albums had some weaker songs, but they didn't detract from their album.

I guess I didn't like Trip Through Your Wires as much on JT, but that album, on the whole, was incredible. One Tree Hill, In God's Country, etc, are some of U2's best songs. Give it another listen, Chief43, don't just play Streets through WOWY every time :)


[1] - I think Sexy Boots is ridiculous because why would U2 record a song that so obviously immitates Pump it Up? Bono has actually sang the chorus from Pump it Up in part during a few live shows in the past. Bono, if you like the song so much (and don't get me wrong, Pump it Up, is a great song!), why not just record it as a B-side cover, like Fortunate Son, or Dancing Barefoot? I like covers. I don't like to hear good songs getting ripped apart with different lyrics inserted.
 
Now the important question: has any band ever released a single album that was every bit as good as the albums during their "golden age" after a string of mediocre albums?

Yes.

1 -- Elvis Presley: He was a genius of singles in 1954 to 1961 or so, then completely sucked from 1962 to 1967/68. After "Guitar Man", "If I Can Dream", and the '68 Comeback Special, he returned from the dregs to make From Elvis in Memphis (1969), arguably the greatest and most critically-acclaimed album of his career. The ones that followed until about 1972 were also great.

2 -- Roy Orbison: Lost the plot amidst changing musical tastes and the unbelievable bad luck of his personal life somewhere around the late 60s. Had an incredible comeback in the final two years of his life with the platinum-selling Traveling Wilburys album and his last record, Mystery Girl, which was his biggest seller ever (and had a great song by Bono and Edge).

3 -- Bob Dylan: Time Out of Mind (1997) and Love and Theft (2001)
4 -- Paul Simon: Graceland (1986)
5 -- Steely Dan: Two Against Nature (2000)
6 -- Bonnie Raitt: Nick Of Time (1989)

Does anyone who became a U2 fan before year 2000 honestly think any of their post-2000 albums every bit as good as any of their golden age albums?

I became a U2 fan in about 1987, and I think ATYCLB is an excellent record, and that HTDAAB is their 4th or 5th best album. So the answer to your question, again, is "yes".


Every rock/pop/R&B-based recording artist will inevitably have a peak period of inspiration and creativity, and then a decline or a dry-period, or at least a lessening of inspiration. For some people, the inspiration and drive comes young and goes quickly (The Sex Pistols, Sinead O'Connor); for others, it lasts a long time (like Prince, from 1978 to 1987 or so).

U2 have somewhat managed to buck the inevitable trend of decline by a few factors:
1) They're very un-prolific: none of their releases are ignored or pass the public by (this is unlike artists who were aging in the 70s and 80s but still put out an album every year of increasingly diminishing returns). But even U2's younger peers are way more prolific than they are. They design every move they make into a big EVENT, guaranteed to get everyone's attention.

2) The 4 guys have all been 100% committed to the band's cause from the get-go until today. They're all extremely passionate about what they do, and they're highly self-critical, never falling into the trap of being satisfied or arrogant about themselves. I honestly cannot say that about any other artist I can think of who was commercially successful for 20 years or more (or even 10)...

3) The older they get, the more aware they are of the need to keep up with the changing times. U2 have always been the first to embrace new technology, new young bands, and new ideas. Again, this is the polar opposite of the earlier generation of 60s bands who were still pretending it was the 60s in the 80s and 90s (see: Crosby, Stills, and Nash).

I don't know if it's even possible for a rock band in its 40s (soon to be 50s!) to be as "good" as vital and essential as they were 20 years earlier, any more than it's likely I'll be as good a sexual performer at 50 as I was at 25. But, you know, I think U2 are as close as any band has ever been at their age to being as good as they were in their 20s. Which is pretty amazing.

Sometimes, we can get hung up too much on subjective judgments like "better" and "worse", which really are meaningless. I think what does have meaning is things like "level of commitment" and "different". That is, as long as U2 are 100% committed to what they're doing, and as long as the music they make is not a tired re-tread of past glories, I will always enjoy what they do and I won't feel the need to compare them to their past. Yes, maybe it'll never excite me as much or feel as culturally relevant as it did in 1988 or 1993, but that's okay with me. As Oscar Wilde said, "Youth is wasted on the young."
 
Btw, you should have changed the title of your thread. This is not about "any" band, as your title, misleadingly, says, but in the end only about U2. Why aren't you at least brave enough to write U2 into your thread title?

No, for a number of reasons:

1) The topic is not "bash U2". It's really about Sick Boy's downward slope theory, whether it holds up, and whether it might apply to U2. In the process, I got pulled into trying to demonstrate that U2 might be on suck a slope, but that wasn't my original intent.

2) Starting a thread titled "X sucks" on a forum about X is considered inflammatory or trolling.

3) I would never actually use the word suck and U2 in the same sentence. Come on, man, they're my favorite band!
 
For me, NLOTH has 3 amazing songs on it (the aforementioned ones), a couple of decent ones like MoS, one song that sounds blatantly ridiculous [1] because it's over-the-top Elvis Costello, and a few songs which combine some amazing fragments with some framents that really make me cringe (examples given earlier). So on the whole, this album, like the 3 preceding albums, "has its good and it has its bad".

On the contrary, (again this is only for myself), not a single second of music recorded by U2 prior to Pop ever made me cringe. Sure a few albums had some weaker songs, but they didn't detract from their album.

I guess I didn't like Trip Through Your Wires as much on JT, but that album, on the whole, was incredible. One Tree Hill, In God's Country, etc, are some of U2's best songs. Give it another listen, Chief43, don't just play Streets through WOWY every time :)


[1] - I think Sexy Boots is ridiculous because why would U2 record a song that so obviously immitates Pump it Up? Bono has actually sang the chorus from Pump it Up in part during a few live shows in the past. Bono, if you like the song so much (and don't get me wrong, Pump it Up, is a great song!), why not just record it as a B-side cover, like Fortunate Son, or Dancing Barefoot? I like covers. I don't like to hear good songs getting ripped apart with different lyrics inserted.

Interesting. In regards to Joshua Tree in particular I am in the minority. I just think it is an album that has some fantastic songs but also some terrible fillers - similar to some of their albums in the 00's that detract from the album as a whole. Still Haven't Found I appreciate but it irks me like Stuck In A Moment does. I on the other hand like Red Hill Mining Town, One Tree Hill and Mothers Of The Disappeared. So it's not a complete bash on the second half of the album, its just that Trip Through Your Wires is trash, Exit - I don't like or attach myself to the studio version at all (live is different) and In God's Country sensationalises the imagery which the first half has already conveyed and its a nice song but I don't really see it as anything more (I am definitely in the minority). In other words some of the second half ride on the coat tails of Side A on the JT and don't really stand out themselves as memorable (One Tree Hill, Red Hill and MOTD) the exceptions. It is these reasons that I don't get into JT all too much.
 
Oh and in regards to the actual original post - Johnny Cash (2005) with the assistance of Rick Rubin is one of the greatest and most memorable comebacks.

Dylan (Modern Times)

Metallica (Death Magnetic) although that is obviously debatable, but from the fans I know and the overall acclaim it has been the most positive since the Black Album.
 
Your argument is invalid because your opinion, with all due respect, is in the minority. U2 has not had to "recover" as you say it. Their last 3 albums have been very well-received. Just because you believe they have slipped does not make your opinion a fact. There are a few others here who might agree with you, but their success and well-received albums this decade alone invalidates your entire argument. If the albums were bad, no one would buy them, and no one would go to the concert. And they would break up, like just about every other band. But, no they have been around 30 years, and they have not had to "recover." That's what makes them different. Everyone keeps waiting for that "recovery" period. And, it still hasn't happened. You want your money back because they are alive at 33....no wait, alive at 48 or 49??? Wait, that's not rock and roll!!

Dude, I'm already starting to like you! :love: Please stick around longer!


:up: I agree with what you said. And wtf, we're TONE DEAF because we don't hear the ridiculous comparisons this guy hears? That's hillarious.

Comparing Fez to Bad has to be the greatest thing I heard since people tried to tell me Bad is a musically complex song! :lmao:
 
Cosmo needs to weigh in here on a couple of things:

2-Magnificent does NOT sound like anything off of Achtung! I kind of hear Pride (in the name of love) a bit. Im not saying it sounds like Pride but I can hear it in the guitar a little.

)

Oh comeone, that's ridiculous- it's nothing like Pride. Can't you hear the disco influences that Eno (who after all produced the darn thing) was talking about? And as for rating ATYCLB and HTDAAB above Zooropa and Pop I simply despair.
 
Your argument is invalid because your opinion, with all due respect, is in the minority.

I'm sorry, but no.

So, because someone's opinion is in the minority, then they're automatically wrong? If the opinion is well thought out, educated, and constructive, being in the minority does not inherently make it wrong, especially when we get to subjective topics such as music.
 
I'm sorry, but no.

So, because someone's opinion is in the minority, then they're automatically wrong? If the opinion is well thought out, educated, and constructive, being in the minority does not inherently make it wrong, especially when we get to subjective topics such as music.

Bomac, I understand what you are saying, but please read the rest of my post. I believe there is a minority of people here that are trying to convince people that U2 are slipping when popular opinion, numbers and reception are suggesting otherwise. The obvious evidence is the facts. No one is making that up. The minority that agree with OP will accept that what he is saying is fact, but there is a majority here that knows the argument is futile until U2 actually do enter a recovery period. If my original post misled you, I am sorry. I do agree that music is subjective, but it becomes an entirely different ballgame when some people seem to come in here with the obvious intent of raining on everyone else's excitement. That's not about the music. That's coming from a different place.
 
I didn't say that these 3 songs are somehow re-issued versions of the old songs or anything like that. I was just stating the reason why I think I like them so much: because they remind me of those songs (Bad being my favorite U2 song, AB being my favorite album, and Zooropa, the song, just being an amazing piece of music).


Well if that's the case then I'm sorry... I'm sorry your musical knowledge is so limited that the only reason you like a song is due to a very very weak connection to another song. Those songs have nothing in common. It sounds to me that you didn't listen to NLOTH with an open mind, you came in with your mind already made up... Just like you came into this forum... That's too bad.
 
ok, this is stupid!

If HTDAAB or NLOTH are both "crap" albums, then why the fuck did they go to number one in heaps of countries including the USA?

:lock:
 
ok, this is stupid!

If HTDAAB or NLOTH are both "crap" albums, then why the fuck did they go to number one in heaps of countries including the USA?

:lock:
Well, Lady Gaga's album is in the top 5 of the same chart. So are you saying Lady Gaga is a good artist?
 
Well, Lady Gaga's album is in the top 5 of the same chart. So are you saying Lady Gaga is a good artist?

She happens to a be a fine pop artist. Her songs are really good at do what they're supposed to do.
 
Well, Lady Gaga's album is in the top 5 of the same chart. So are you saying Lady Gaga is a good artist?

I've listened to some of it (my sisters into her) and its actually not too bad.

If its considered a success on the mainstream charts, then how can it be considered a "crap" album?

If so many people have bought it in some way, shape or form, then it cant be "crap", thats just your opinion which seems to be held by the minority here on this forum.
 
Well okay how about Kanye West album then, it was in the charts as well.

And don't tell me, DO NOT tell me that Kanye West is a fine artist. ;)
 
ok, this is stupid!

If HTDAAB or NLOTH are both "crap" albums, then why the fuck did they go to number one in heaps of countries including the USA?

:lock:

How about the fact that HTDAAB won album of the year at the grammys and sold more than 3 million albums in the US.
 
santana came back after doing nothing for over 15 years. before 1999 he was commercaly dead and playing nostalgia shows.
 
I became a U2 fan in about 1987, and I think ATYCLB is an excellent record, and that HTDAAB is their 4th or 5th best album. So the answer to your question, again, is "yes".

Good post. It's interesting that you mentioned ATYCLB and HTDAAB as comeback from "suck" period. My reply would be "I don't know" since I believe their "suck" period (if there's anything like it) is this decade and even if I think NLOTH is a far better album than the previous two it isn't in the league of the band's greatest and I don't know where they are going from here. It may be a comeback or it might not.

U2 have somewhat managed to buck the inevitable trend of decline by a few factors:
1) They're very un-prolific: none of their releases are ignored or pass the public by (this is unlike artists who were aging in the 70s and 80s but still put out an album every year of increasingly diminishing returns). But even U2's younger peers are way more prolific than they are. They design every move they make into a big EVENT, guaranteed to get everyone's attention.

2) The 4 guys have all been 100% committed to the band's cause from the get-go until today. They're all extremely passionate about what they do, and they're highly self-critical, never falling into the trap of being satisfied or arrogant about themselves. I honestly cannot say that about any other artist I can think of who was commercially successful for 20 years or more (or even 10)...

3) The older they get, the more aware they are of the need to keep up with the changing times. U2 have always been the first to embrace new technology, new young bands, and new ideas. Again, this is the polar opposite of the earlier generation of 60s bands who were still pretending it was the 60s in the 80s and 90s (see: Crosby, Stills, and Nash).

I agree with the reasons you give for bucking the trend of decline, but I would add that they have had no real competition from younger generation bands. I don't recall any band in the past who could get this far without being challenged by the new generation, which means that they have been able to maintain a certain status without having to risk it out much. With the release of two albums which in my opinion were no more than decent by U2 standards they managed to stay on top, because there was nothing much more interesting around at popular level.

I don't know if it's even possible for a rock band in its 40s (soon to be 50s!) to be as "good" as vital and essential as they were 20 years earlier, any more than it's likely I'll be as good a sexual performer at 50 as I was at 25. But, you know, I think U2 are as close as any band has ever been at their age to being as good as they were in their 20s. Which is pretty amazing.

I would agree to this last statement if "good" were replaced by "relevant". Besides that I really don't think it should be expected from a band in the verge of their 50s to be as essential as when they were in their 20s/30s. At that point they were addressing their own generation - now they are addressing their children's generation, who might be hooked up to the band for the same reasons the post Beatles (or whatever band) generations were hooked up to The Beatles (or whatever band). Meaning: as much avant garde they may be embracing new technology et al. they are not the voice of this generation.


Sometimes, we can get hung up too much on subjective judgments like "better" and "worse", which really are meaningless. I think what does have meaning is things like "level of commitment" and "different". That is, as long as U2 are 100% committed to what they're doing, and as long as the music they make is not a tired re-tread of past glories, I will always enjoy what they do and I won't feel the need to compare them to their past. Yes, maybe it'll never excite me as much or feel as culturally relevant as it did in 1988 or 1993, but that's okay with me. As Oscar Wilde said, "Youth is wasted on the young."

I agree with most of this except for the fact that it is not okay with me if the music doesn't excite me as much or I don't feel it as culturally relevant as it did years ago, though I realise that a) it isn't the place for a band their age to lead revolution b) having been listening to music for about 35 years now my threshold for surprise and excitement has gone up to a level in which I recognise that it takes a lot to catch my attention.
 
After reading this thread ... it is time to write something now :)

Ehm where to start?

NLOTH : the new album is amazing. It has a fresh sound but still it is familiar to me. Some people say they hear zoo station / bad / ultra violet in songs. Fez sounds like TUF to me, those guitar chords are amazing. Besides this song I don't hear the other songs really. Of course there are "edge delay effects and edges u2 chord schema" ... but hey that's U2. Lyrically the songs are great, all of them. And of course there are songs you like more than others.

Now the previous 2 albums. They are indeed personal albums, but not my favorite ones to be honest, compared with the 90's AB and POP there is always something missing on the 2 00's albums. Is it the edge sound? or the lyrics or a combination of those two?

There are of course some great songs ... beautiful day, kite and in little while, may be walk on on ATYCLB and Miracle Drug, LAPOE and may be Vertigo on HTDAAB. But lots of song on those 2 I skip.

JT is close to perfection IMO. Besides the first 5 songs (i still haven't start to irritate me now because I have heard to much) listen to one tree hill, exit on the last part of the album.. amazing songs.

Anyway I think the band have re-invented themselves with NLOTH. But I wouldn't say they sucked in the 00's. I enjoyed the first listens of those 2 albums. But looking at it now I have changed my mind about those 2 albums. Last but not least I enjoyed their 2 tours. Live is where they live and a U2 song live can't be compared with studio. Listen to all those tv performances and you'll hear that those songs sounds amazing live. I can't wait to attend the tour this year

Cheers!
 

Your user-name should remind us -- and the original poster -- that U2's worst line on record is from 1988: "Okay, Edge...play the blues!" (Edge proceeds to play a completely non-blues solo.)

Cringe every time I hear it.
 
Of course this is your opinion ... I completely disagree with you in this ... i know lots of people who think different in this.
Worst line ever? Of course this line must be seen in bono's total speech ... i'm very very proud of this name, even my msn is called edgeplaytheblues .. my hyves too ...

EDDGEEE PLAY THE BLUEEEEEESSS .. *yells*
 
Of course this is your opinion ... I completely disagree with you in this ... i know lots of people who think different in this.
Worst line ever? Of course this line must be seen in bono's total speech ... i'm very very proud of this name, even my msn is called edgeplaytheblues .. my hyves too ...

EDDGEEE PLAY THE BLUEEEEEESSS .. *yells*

except your username wants him to play a solitary blue?


:tongue:
 
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