Shuttlecock XXII: Summer of Laz
- Thread starter Hewson
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
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Yeah, it would be nice to know how to contact some people at least. There are perhaps 4-5 interferencers I can contact outside of this site, but that's it.
It's clear that the current ownership has not put a ton of TLC into the place - and to Ax's point, it would be nice to ensure the place can live on and doesn't suddenly disappear - and even improve/modernize to improve member retention and perhaps even draw some people back.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Hoping for a “survivor” feature where we can vote some unpleasant members off the island.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
i'll chip in if i can have banning powers.
david
ONE love, blood, life
Wait, what’s happening?
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
headache thinks we should pool our money and buy interference so that we can have hookers and blackjack.
And crack. You forgot the crack
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
It's OK to be a Giants fan and not follow in the footsteps of Lawrence Taylor.
Says you
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
ehh i live in toronto, i can just go down to
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
Thought I'd mark a couple of 20th anniversaries we just passed in November...
One is the Best of 1980-1990. I know it's a bit silly to mark the anniversary of a hits compilation, but this one played a big part in my personal musical journey. I was only 14 at the time, and this is pretty much what made me become the fan I am today. I had heard a few tracks from JT and UABRS in the summer of 1998(I think maybe music channels were already promoting the Best Of in July, months before its release), and when I got this set in November, I listened the crap out of it all fall/winter.
The problems with the Best of 1990-2000 had been discussed ad nauseum, and U218 seemed to be some kind of contractual-obligation type release, but 1980-1990 was really well done, imo. Yeah, they could've included Gloria or Bullet or RTSS or whatever, but the 15 tracks on the disc really do a great job of capturing what the band was in the 80s. Those songs are timeless.
Plus, there's the 1998 version of Sweetest Thing. I know some of you prefer the 1987 version, and I like both, but the 1998 version is a perfect pop song that never fails to put a smile on my face.
But half of what makes this set so special to me is the b-sides disc. I really think that b-sides disc changed the way I listen to music. Again, I was only 14, and that disc was a revelation of, oh, it's not all about the big singles, sometimes the best stuff doesn't even make the album. And this was 1998, so it wasn't even easy to be able to listen to that material on that second disc, so it was really a treasure trove, for die-hards and new fans alike.
And yes, I even like the covers, btw. I know some aren't crazy about them, but I love those versions of Dancing Barefoot and Everlasting Love, in particular. It was my first exposure to those songs, period.
Anyway, yeah, 1980-1990 is special to me for sentimental reasons, but it's also, by far, the best of their three Best Ofs, imo, and listening to it yesterday only re-enforced that.
----
The second is the 20th anniversary of the release of Popmart Live From Mexico City. While not quite reaching the heights of its legendary predecessor, ZooTV Live From Sydney, it's still one of the band's more essential live documents, imo, even with Bono's weaker late-90s voice.
If for no other reason, because those Pop songs have disappeared from their live repertoire. In that context, a full live show including Mofo, Gone, Last Night On Earth, Please, Discotheque, Velvet Dress, and Wake Up Dead Man matters. It just does. And don't forget HMTMKMKM(even though I think the 360 version was vastly superior).
For me, the biggest highlights are the epic Please/Streets segue, Mofo, and this may surprise you, but the Edge solo SBS, something totally unique to that tour and a fresh and touching take on a warhorse.
It is a vibrant snapshot of the band they were at that time.
One is the Best of 1980-1990. I know it's a bit silly to mark the anniversary of a hits compilation, but this one played a big part in my personal musical journey. I was only 14 at the time, and this is pretty much what made me become the fan I am today. I had heard a few tracks from JT and UABRS in the summer of 1998(I think maybe music channels were already promoting the Best Of in July, months before its release), and when I got this set in November, I listened the crap out of it all fall/winter.
The problems with the Best of 1990-2000 had been discussed ad nauseum, and U218 seemed to be some kind of contractual-obligation type release, but 1980-1990 was really well done, imo. Yeah, they could've included Gloria or Bullet or RTSS or whatever, but the 15 tracks on the disc really do a great job of capturing what the band was in the 80s. Those songs are timeless.
Plus, there's the 1998 version of Sweetest Thing. I know some of you prefer the 1987 version, and I like both, but the 1998 version is a perfect pop song that never fails to put a smile on my face.
But half of what makes this set so special to me is the b-sides disc. I really think that b-sides disc changed the way I listen to music. Again, I was only 14, and that disc was a revelation of, oh, it's not all about the big singles, sometimes the best stuff doesn't even make the album. And this was 1998, so it wasn't even easy to be able to listen to that material on that second disc, so it was really a treasure trove, for die-hards and new fans alike.
And yes, I even like the covers, btw. I know some aren't crazy about them, but I love those versions of Dancing Barefoot and Everlasting Love, in particular. It was my first exposure to those songs, period.
Anyway, yeah, 1980-1990 is special to me for sentimental reasons, but it's also, by far, the best of their three Best Ofs, imo, and listening to it yesterday only re-enforced that.
----
The second is the 20th anniversary of the release of Popmart Live From Mexico City. While not quite reaching the heights of its legendary predecessor, ZooTV Live From Sydney, it's still one of the band's more essential live documents, imo, even with Bono's weaker late-90s voice.
If for no other reason, because those Pop songs have disappeared from their live repertoire. In that context, a full live show including Mofo, Gone, Last Night On Earth, Please, Discotheque, Velvet Dress, and Wake Up Dead Man matters. It just does. And don't forget HMTMKMKM(even though I think the 360 version was vastly superior).
For me, the biggest highlights are the epic Please/Streets segue, Mofo, and this may surprise you, but the Edge solo SBS, something totally unique to that tour and a fresh and touching take on a warhorse.
It is a vibrant snapshot of the band they were at that time.
Mack_Again
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
I endorse that vision let's do it
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Ok so I was looking for my custom Pop playlist which I made ages ago and probably posted here at some point, and tried to narrow it down by searching for all posts I made with the word "Miami". And wouldn't you know it, wound up finding my first Interference post (mainly because I mention that distinction within).
I gotta say, aside from the overuse of capitalizing too many words for EMPHASIS and signing my name at the bottom like a fucking n00b I'm not embarrassed by this one. Of course, I was already 32 at the time so not exactly some drooling teenager.
Thread this is from is "Why SYCMIOYO will never compare to ONE..."
Howdy, long time Wire member here, first time poster....
I think I'm straddling the fence on this one. I think Sometimes is a great song, but I'd have to agree that it's doubtful it will earn a place in the Pantheon alongside One, unless the band forces it down everyone's ears in every show until the end of their touring career.
The problem lies not in the songwriting but more in the presentation. One was post-modern stripped down ballad building up to a celestial climax. The style of Sometimes kind of screams adult contemporary, even if it's superb AC. The falsetto, so bizaarely effective in the outer-space transmission of Lemon, sounds obvious here. I have to be honest that the first time I heard that chorus, I cringed at what OTHER listeners might think upon hearing it. It's beautifully sung, but it is possibly the most mainstream thing I've heard from the band.
Also, we have a break that sounds totally lifted from Walk On, and while the guitar parts that line the latter half of the song are nice, they are Edge 101. By comparison, as One builds and builds Edge gets deeper and deeper into the sorrow of thr piece. Come on, The Egde playing on a song inspired by his doomed marriage? The guy is grazing the stratosphere on this one, perhaps plowing through it. Bono's vocal emoting at the end of the song is surpassed only by the "hoooooooo" from Running to Stand Still.
In Sometimes' defense, onn an album where the word "heart" is totally overused, the new song is magically free of cliche. But perhaps the specificity of lines like "you're the reason I have operas in me" may prevent this from being as UNIVERSAL as One, which has been interpreted in so many ways by so many people.
In the end, Sometimes might only be revered by U2 fans who KNOW what the song is about. You don't have to be privy to Edge's relationship woes to feel the power of One. Musically the 1991 gem packs a much heavier punch.
On a side note, I'd like to chime in to the Miami debate as well. Although the song has many detractors, it's a little unfair to act like this is the band's Revolution #9. It's not unlistenable. And while Larry might be on a loop for the first half of the song, when he does come in it's on the waves of Led Zeppelin's When the Levee Breaks, and he kicks some SERIOUS ass. Some of the best playing in his career. Plus, the Jane's Addiction-esque "baa baa baas" is a nice touch. Adam is doing some fantastic work. Edge's solo right after Bono's "car chase" line makes you feel like you're speeding down some highway. For a band effort, this song is very accomplished.
The main beef seems to be with the lyrics, and it's a little lame to keep bringing up the "Miami, my mammy" when the rest of the lyrics really take you to the place they're describing. The evoke a real atmosphere. They're cinematic. Let's not forget that Allen Ginsburg himself was filmed reading these lyric. By comparison, New York sounds a lot more postcard in its description. Miami comes from a Castro-dressing Bono who was REALLY soaking up the place.
laz
I gotta say, aside from the overuse of capitalizing too many words for EMPHASIS and signing my name at the bottom like a fucking n00b I'm not embarrassed by this one. Of course, I was already 32 at the time so not exactly some drooling teenager.
Thread this is from is "Why SYCMIOYO will never compare to ONE..."
Howdy, long time Wire member here, first time poster....
I think I'm straddling the fence on this one. I think Sometimes is a great song, but I'd have to agree that it's doubtful it will earn a place in the Pantheon alongside One, unless the band forces it down everyone's ears in every show until the end of their touring career.
The problem lies not in the songwriting but more in the presentation. One was post-modern stripped down ballad building up to a celestial climax. The style of Sometimes kind of screams adult contemporary, even if it's superb AC. The falsetto, so bizaarely effective in the outer-space transmission of Lemon, sounds obvious here. I have to be honest that the first time I heard that chorus, I cringed at what OTHER listeners might think upon hearing it. It's beautifully sung, but it is possibly the most mainstream thing I've heard from the band.
Also, we have a break that sounds totally lifted from Walk On, and while the guitar parts that line the latter half of the song are nice, they are Edge 101. By comparison, as One builds and builds Edge gets deeper and deeper into the sorrow of thr piece. Come on, The Egde playing on a song inspired by his doomed marriage? The guy is grazing the stratosphere on this one, perhaps plowing through it. Bono's vocal emoting at the end of the song is surpassed only by the "hoooooooo" from Running to Stand Still.
In Sometimes' defense, onn an album where the word "heart" is totally overused, the new song is magically free of cliche. But perhaps the specificity of lines like "you're the reason I have operas in me" may prevent this from being as UNIVERSAL as One, which has been interpreted in so many ways by so many people.
In the end, Sometimes might only be revered by U2 fans who KNOW what the song is about. You don't have to be privy to Edge's relationship woes to feel the power of One. Musically the 1991 gem packs a much heavier punch.
On a side note, I'd like to chime in to the Miami debate as well. Although the song has many detractors, it's a little unfair to act like this is the band's Revolution #9. It's not unlistenable. And while Larry might be on a loop for the first half of the song, when he does come in it's on the waves of Led Zeppelin's When the Levee Breaks, and he kicks some SERIOUS ass. Some of the best playing in his career. Plus, the Jane's Addiction-esque "baa baa baas" is a nice touch. Adam is doing some fantastic work. Edge's solo right after Bono's "car chase" line makes you feel like you're speeding down some highway. For a band effort, this song is very accomplished.
The main beef seems to be with the lyrics, and it's a little lame to keep bringing up the "Miami, my mammy" when the rest of the lyrics really take you to the place they're describing. The evoke a real atmosphere. They're cinematic. Let's not forget that Allen Ginsburg himself was filmed reading these lyric. By comparison, New York sounds a lot more postcard in its description. Miami comes from a Castro-dressing Bono who was REALLY soaking up the place.
laz
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Also, let me draw your attention to this discussion of the leaked Mercy back in 2005:
Me: It is precisely the "wandering" that makes this track so majestic. It's not overproduced and trimmed to some listener-friendly nugget.
I'm hoping U2 doesn't get into the same mindset as some of the people who feel Mercy "needs work". They felt the song was ready for inclusion on the album, and it was dropped for time reasons along with Fast Cars. There's no need to revisit it or try to make it "better", let alone shorter.
The whole point of the "radio leak" idea was to get the song appreciated on a larger scale, to PREVENT any further tinkering. If the band saw the favorable response, they might conclude there's no reason to fuck with it. I'd rather have Mercy left off the next album than see this version replaced for all time by some watered-down redux.
Axver: Laz, would you be happier if U2 hadn't touched Take You Down?
If no, why would you be happier if U2 don't touch Mercy? No-one here has the faintest idea how that song may evolve. Indeed, considering the fact it was considered for inclusion on the album, what we have is potentially close to the final version, so if U2 hold onto it for another album, it may not even change and this hysteria that it will be butchered is misplaced! Or it may evolve into a couple of legendary songs that we like more than Mercy itself. NO-ONE KNOWS and making pessimistic predictions is just stupidly cynical.
Let's not force U2's hand here. They're the artists. They have the creative licence, not any of us.
Me: Axver, others have already tried to draw these parallels which are incompatible, to put it lightly. I have Take You Down. I'm quite familiar with it. I'm aware of what it spawned. And Take You Down is far, far from being some kind of masterwork. It is not epic, and it SOUNDS like a work in progress.
Mercy, on the other hand, has been called by many the best song U2 has recorded in years. It's was on many people's Top 10 after only being around for months. It's an extremely powerful track. Take You Down is the sound of a band opening doors, peeking around corners, and looking for something different. Mercy is what they FOUND there. There is NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING superior to Mercy that can be extracted from Mercy. It is in a finished state, and Bono himself called it "the best B-Side you've ever heard". If they do revisit the track, it will be to make it more akin to whatever other new material they would be working on for another album.
And that's what has me worried. Yeah, U2 are the artists. But artists don't always make the best choices. For some, POP was a misstep. For others, ATYCLB was a backwards step. For some, Miami is like nails on a chalkboard. For others, Hands That Built America is an awkwardly written and sung aural sleeping pill. For some, the new mixes and Best of selections were fresh looks at older material. For others, they were an unnecessary and poorly chosen waste of time.
I'm hoping that an updated Mercy doesn't become a really bad choice to a lot of people. To you, it sounds "stupidly cynical", to me it's legitimate apprehension.
TOLD YOU SO
Axver defending the instincts of post-2000 U2 here is pretty rich.
Me: It is precisely the "wandering" that makes this track so majestic. It's not overproduced and trimmed to some listener-friendly nugget.
I'm hoping U2 doesn't get into the same mindset as some of the people who feel Mercy "needs work". They felt the song was ready for inclusion on the album, and it was dropped for time reasons along with Fast Cars. There's no need to revisit it or try to make it "better", let alone shorter.
The whole point of the "radio leak" idea was to get the song appreciated on a larger scale, to PREVENT any further tinkering. If the band saw the favorable response, they might conclude there's no reason to fuck with it. I'd rather have Mercy left off the next album than see this version replaced for all time by some watered-down redux.
Axver: Laz, would you be happier if U2 hadn't touched Take You Down?
If no, why would you be happier if U2 don't touch Mercy? No-one here has the faintest idea how that song may evolve. Indeed, considering the fact it was considered for inclusion on the album, what we have is potentially close to the final version, so if U2 hold onto it for another album, it may not even change and this hysteria that it will be butchered is misplaced! Or it may evolve into a couple of legendary songs that we like more than Mercy itself. NO-ONE KNOWS and making pessimistic predictions is just stupidly cynical.
Let's not force U2's hand here. They're the artists. They have the creative licence, not any of us.
Me: Axver, others have already tried to draw these parallels which are incompatible, to put it lightly. I have Take You Down. I'm quite familiar with it. I'm aware of what it spawned. And Take You Down is far, far from being some kind of masterwork. It is not epic, and it SOUNDS like a work in progress.
Mercy, on the other hand, has been called by many the best song U2 has recorded in years. It's was on many people's Top 10 after only being around for months. It's an extremely powerful track. Take You Down is the sound of a band opening doors, peeking around corners, and looking for something different. Mercy is what they FOUND there. There is NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING superior to Mercy that can be extracted from Mercy. It is in a finished state, and Bono himself called it "the best B-Side you've ever heard". If they do revisit the track, it will be to make it more akin to whatever other new material they would be working on for another album.
And that's what has me worried. Yeah, U2 are the artists. But artists don't always make the best choices. For some, POP was a misstep. For others, ATYCLB was a backwards step. For some, Miami is like nails on a chalkboard. For others, Hands That Built America is an awkwardly written and sung aural sleeping pill. For some, the new mixes and Best of selections were fresh looks at older material. For others, they were an unnecessary and poorly chosen waste of time.
I'm hoping that an updated Mercy doesn't become a really bad choice to a lot of people. To you, it sounds "stupidly cynical", to me it's legitimate apprehension.
TOLD YOU SOAxver defending the instincts of post-2000 U2 here is pretty rich.
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I'm quite happy to find my dislike of the song has remained steady since day one
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Because because because because
phanan
Blue Crack Addict
I’m quite happy to find my claim that it’s one of their best post-2000 has remained steady since day one.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I'm sure no one will be surprised to learn that Songs of Experience was completely overlooked at the Grammys.
For a band that could usually be counted on for nominations every year they were eligible, this is a bit of an industry death knell in terms of relevance.
For a band that could usually be counted on for nominations every year they were eligible, this is a bit of an industry death knell in terms of relevance.
Even Innocence got a best rock album nod
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
That’s what happens when you pick the wrong singles. So much good stuff on this album that should have had more posterity. Fucking idiots.
OP
OP
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Its like they can't get out of their own way.
I don't get it
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
Fuck, guys. Get Out Of Your Own Way is so fucking great. I don’t care what you say.
But here’s my idea of how singles could have gone:
1. The Blackout
2. Red Flag Day
3. The Little Things That Give You Away (Spotify version)
4. Love Is Bigger Than Anything In Its Way
5. Lights Of Home (Strings Version)
6. Get Out Of Your Own Way (with a clear anti Trump themed video. No subtle message, just a Fuck Trump video)
But here’s my idea of how singles could have gone:
1. The Blackout
2. Red Flag Day
3. The Little Things That Give You Away (Spotify version)
4. Love Is Bigger Than Anything In Its Way
5. Lights Of Home (Strings Version)
6. Get Out Of Your Own Way (with a clear anti Trump themed video. No subtle message, just a Fuck Trump video)
Blackout
Love Is Bigger
Showman
Little Things
Love Is Bigger
Showman
Little Things
- Status
