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-   -   Obama General Discussion, vol. 3 (http://www.u2interference.com/forums/f290/obama-general-discussion-vol-3-a-210448.html)

PhilsFan 06-22-2011 11:53 PM

Restricting citizens from being able to get married seems quite "big government" to me.

maycocksean 06-23-2011 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilsFan (Post 7250023)
Restricting citizens from being able to get married seems quite "big government" to me.

Exactly.

INDY500 06-23-2011 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilsFan (Post 7250023)
Restricting citizens from being able to get married seems quite "big government" to me.

So "big government" drove the Mormons west from New York to what eventually would become the state of Utah?

maycocksean 06-23-2011 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500 (Post 7250304)
So "big government" drove the Mormons west from New York to what eventually would become the state of Utah?

Not quite. I'm sure Diamond (or even deep) could explain it better than I could, but part of what drove the Mormons west was the disapproval of the surrounding community.

But that's neither here nor there.

So, to stay on point, what is your point about the appropriate role of government?

BVS 06-23-2011 11:03 AM

Good luck Sean, we've been waiting years for that answer from INDY...

maycocksean 06-23-2011 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 7250455)
Good luck Sean, we've been waiting years for that answer from INDY...

And I've been waiting for years for serious conservative to enter the fray here. :shrug:

Maybe I should talk my buddy Grant into joining Interference. . .

Here in America: Making Politics Polite

BVS 06-23-2011 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maycocksean (Post 7250459)
And I've been waiting for years for serious conservative to enter the fray here. :shrug:

Same here...


Quote:

Originally Posted by maycocksean (Post 7250459)

Maybe I should talk my buddy Grant into joining Interference. . .

Here in America: Making Politics Polite

Very enjoyable read. :up:

maycocksean 06-23-2011 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 7250536)
Same here...




Very enjoyable read. :up:

Thanks. FYM really deserved a mention in that post.

INDY500 06-23-2011 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maycocksean (Post 7250449)
So, to stay on point, what is your point about the appropriate role of government?

Ok, just for you I'll put on my "serious conservative" face.

http://images-partners-tbn.google.co...1/old-fogy.jpg

As neither an anarchist nor libertarian but as a serious conservative I recognize the role of government. Both constitutionally and as a matter of practicality. Though I do have a natural distrust of government I believe it plays a vital role in a civil society. I want, and have no problem paying for through taxes, governments that will efficiently manage or administer; law enforcement, public safety, highways and other large public works, the regulation of food and drugs, the enactment of zoning laws, reasonable conservation of our land, waterways and wildlife, the setting up of licensing boards, public education, etc.

As a serious conservative I believe the less people dependant on government the better while the statist (modern liberal) believes the opposite. That our compassion is measured by the largess of our entitlement programs.

As a serious conservative I feel compelled to provide at least one Ronald Reagan quote.
"There’s a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts."

Finally, as a serious conservative... I need to eat some dinner.

maycocksean 06-23-2011 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500 (Post 7251405)
Ok, just for you I'll put on my "serious conservative" face.

http://images-partners-tbn.google.co...1/old-fogy.jpg

As neither an anarchist nor libertarian but as a serious conservative I recognize the role of government. Both constitutionally and as a matter of practicality. Though I do have a natural distrust of government I believe it plays a vital role in a civil society. I want, and have no problem paying for through taxes, governments that will efficiently manage or administer; law enforcement, public safety, highways and other large public works, the regulation of food and drugs, the enactment of zoning laws, reasonable conservation of our land, waterways and wildlife, the setting up of licensing boards, public education, etc.

As a serious conservative I believe the less people dependant on government the better while the statist (modern liberal) believes the opposite. That our compassion is measured by the largess of our entitlement programs.

As a serious conservative I feel compelled to provide at least one Ronald Reagan quote.
"There’s a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts."

Finally, as a serious conservative... I need to eat some dinner.

With a face like that, I can see why you usually aren't serious! :wink: :)

Seriously though--haha, I probably agree with you with all is said and done. Maybe I'm not really a liberal. . .because I also have a certain basic distrust of government, having, as I mentioned before, seen firsthand a bloated government sector in the Marianas Islands. And I certainly do not feel that our compassion is measured by the largesse of our entitlement programs. Yet at the same time I'm not so horrified by the European system which has high taxes and generous entitlement programs (Though I do think it's a bit absurd when people are taking to the streets over government austerity programs in Greece. I mean come on, the state is bankrupt, you'd think people would recognize something has to give). So then again I guess I'm not conservative eitehr.

I also don't believe that the private sector and the Market is the Solution to all things. I'd say I'm equally distrustful of big business as I am of big government though for different reasons. I feel conservatives are almost naiive in their trust in the private sector to protect their interests. So I guess that makes me liberal again.

Here's my thing. I know you like to come in and yank the chains of the left-leaning FYM folk and hey, far be it from me to tell you how to spend your time in here. And there is value in keeping things light. But, I do think that serious contributions like the one you just made (the face not withstanding) really would be useful. People may not agree with you, but it would still be more useful than the entertainment-that-passes-as-critical-thought that I hear coming from the public faces of the Right these days.

I WANT to be challenged. . .I want to have to really think about my positions on the current issues.

Oh and one more thing. . .as a serious liberal, I must emplore you to give your dinner to the poor rather than selfishly consuming it yourself! :lol:

PhilsFan 06-24-2011 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500 (Post 7251405)
Ok, just for you I'll put on my "serious conservative" face.

http://images-partners-tbn.google.co...1/old-fogy.jpg

As neither an anarchist nor libertarian but as a serious conservative I recognize the role of government. Both constitutionally and as a matter of practicality. Though I do have a natural distrust of government I believe it plays a vital role in a civil society. I want, and have no problem paying for through taxes, governments that will efficiently manage or administer; law enforcement, public safety, highways and other large public works, the regulation of food and drugs, the enactment of zoning laws, reasonable conservation of our land, waterways and wildlife, the setting up of licensing boards, public education, etc.

As a serious conservative I believe the less people dependant on government the better while the statist (modern liberal) believes the opposite. That our compassion is measured by the largess of our entitlement programs.

As a serious conservative I feel compelled to provide at least one Ronald Reagan quote.
"There’s a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts."

Finally, as a serious conservative... I need to eat some dinner.

Thank you for the detailed response.

What do you think of Mitt Romney's assertion that it is immoral for the government to provide for those suffering after a natural disaster?

maycocksean 06-24-2011 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilsFan (Post 7251620)
Thank you for the detailed response.

What do you think of Mitt Romney's assertion that it is immoral for the government to provide for those suffering after a natural disaster?

I'll tell you what I think on that. When I read the article that had been posted, I felt that they had spun Mitt Romney's response to make him say that it was immoral to relieve the suffering of people after a natural disaster. From what I read,his response was more nuanced then that and was more about a general principle than a specific response to natural disasters.

I'll go back and look at it again, but I remember feeling that way when I read the original post. I was just too lazy to comment on it.

maycocksean 06-24-2011 08:09 AM

Yeah, I just went back and read the article again, focusing on his actual quote. I also watched the video.

He was NOT asked do you think disaster victims should receive government assistance, he did not reply: Absolutely not. That would be immoral.

I don't care for that tactic. I see it used all the time by the right-wing media and I don't like it any better when it's used on the left.

BVS 06-24-2011 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500 (Post 7251405)
As a serious conservative I believe the less people dependant on government the better while the statist (modern liberal) believes the opposite. That our compassion is measured by the largess of our entitlement programs.

You ARE NOT a serious conservative if you believe this statement is true. You are nothing but a Fox News/Hannity type of conservative, one that has been manipulated by perversions of information.

maycocksean 06-24-2011 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 7251989)
You ARE NOT a serious conservative if you believe this statement is true. You are nothing but a Fox News/Hannity type of conservative, one that has been manipulated by perversions of information.

I disagree, at least that the first part of his statement is not serious. I don't think there is anything unserious about believing that fewer people dependent on government is a good thing. I don't see government as good or evil inherently--it's a neutral entity that can be used for good or ill. I do agree with you that the second part of the statement is not serious--that liberals believe the opposite.

I think the goal should be efficient and effective government that enables people to live the lives they choose and keeps the people safe. This is not necessarily "big"or "small" government.


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