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-   -   Alito-Court Wrong To Deny Ave Maria Case (http://www.u2interference.com/forums/f199/alito-court-wrong-to-deny-ave-maria-case-205323.html)

MrsSpringsteen 03-22-2010 07:22 PM

Alito-Court Wrong To Deny Ave Maria Case
 
foxnews.com

The beautiful strains of "Ave Maria" will not echo through the marbled walls of the Supreme Court, nor will arguments, over Justice Samuel Alito's objections, in a case about the playing of the standard at a high school graduation.

On Monday the high court announced it will not hear the appeal of Kathryn Nurre who with other classmates was prohibited from performing an instrumental version of the popular tune at their graduation ceremony from an Everett, Washington high school.

The school's principal after consultation with other officials struck the song from the graduation program. District superintendent Carol Whitehead justified the decision by reasoning that "many people would see [the song] as religious in nature."

Nurre sued the school district claiming its decision violated her constitutional rights. Lower courts have ruled in favor of the district but in their petition to the Supreme Court, Nurre's lawyers contend "the censorship in this case involves political correctness run amuck."

They take issue with the lower court's reasoning that the district's action was justified because of concerns that people would complain about the song in a reprise of an issue raised following a previous graduation ceremony. Nurre's lawyers further argued the school district’s decision justifies the sacrifice of artistic and student expression "to a heckler's veto that seeks to sanitize even the remotest vestige of religion from public life."

Justice Alito announced his disagreement with the high court's decision to stay out of the case by writing the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals decision "is not easy to square with our free speech jurisprudence."

Lawyers for the school district asked the justices not to take case claiming the Ninth Circuit ruling last year was correct and that the issues presented by Nurre failed to offer the type of significant legal conflict that is normally resolved by the high court. Furthermore it defended the decision as within its authority to maintain "the orderly administration" of education for its students.

The school district concluded its argument to the justices by saying it does not seek "to deprive students of learning opportunities, nor is it seeking to purge altogether religious-inspired works from public education. Instead, it simply sought to provide an atmosphere in which all graduates could celebrate their academic achievements, free from controversial messages....the District simply had no choice but to act as it did, within the confines of the law."

Alito was sharply critical of the school officials and their decision. He said that when the school gives students the opportunity to express themselves they must respect the students' right to free speech. "School administrators may not behave like puppet masters who create the illusion that students are engaging in personal expression when in fact the school administration is pulling the strings," Alito wrote.

corianderstem 03-22-2010 08:40 PM

My presbyterian minister wouldn't let me sing Ave Maria at a Christmas church service some years ago. blah blah Catholic prayer blah blah hurf durf.

I shoulda sued him.

MadelynIris 03-22-2010 09:54 PM

The problem I have with this is: The instrumental version of this is a Bach prelude.

For anyone who loves the vast history of music, this is going to be a tough pill to swallow when and if schools really start banning it.

corianderstem 03-22-2010 10:03 PM

It doesn't say if that's the one they wanted to perform, or the Schumann, which is the other big Ave Maria.

MadelynIris 03-22-2010 10:08 PM

Ok, so maybe not that version (went and did some research). It was Biebl's version, and I had not heard of it. But, wow it is beautiful, just beautiful. It saddens me when this kind of art cannot be included in things like graduation, even without words.
:|

YouTube - Franz Biebl  Ave Maria 

anitram 03-22-2010 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadelynIris (Post 6702549)
The problem I have with this is: The instrumental version of this is a Bach prelude.

The problem I have with this is the hyper-litigious society that we live in, particularly and specifically in the US (I've practiced there and in Canada and there really are significant differences).

I don't know when we as people decided that the law is the ideal or preferred vehicle to bring about social change, because the idea is ludicrous. Now somebody will come along and spit at lawyers per usual, but it really extends far beyond that to the point where ordinary people find it completely acceptable and even desired to litigate every matter under the sun. It is not what the legal system was designed to do, nor is it equipped to do it effectively.

corianderstem 03-22-2010 10:20 PM

Ohhhh, the Biebl version! One of my all-time favorite pieces of music. Amazing to sing with a choir, too. The version by Chanticleer (all men's voices) is the most beautiful thing ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WSbq3TCcd0

But hey, it's okay. The kids can play or sing some shitty pop song that has "inspiring" lyrics about being friends forever or something.

Barf.

MadelynIris 03-22-2010 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem (Post 6702570)

But hey, it's okay. The kids can play or sing some shitty pop song that has "inspiring" lyrics about being friends forever or something.

Barf.

:D You and me kid.

corianderstem 03-22-2010 10:30 PM

I couldn't even tell you what music was played/sung at my graduation.

Seriously though, MadelynIris - listen to the Chanticleer version. It will change your life. Or make you cry. Possibly both.

Kieran McConville 03-22-2010 10:53 PM

The schubert ave maria is amazing, but I'm not even sure if it's the one I really love, which I heard somewhere or other years ago.

Sadly if you want to ensure no contamination by religious themes, you pretty much have to write off all of history prior to the European Enlightenment.

corianderstem 03-22-2010 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem (Post 6702554)
Schumann

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieran McConville (Post 6702612)
Schubert

Gah! Dammit, you're right.

Former music major fail. :grumpy:

Kieran McConville 03-22-2010 11:40 PM

Oh I'm no music expert, but names I can do.

corianderstem 03-22-2010 11:45 PM

My choir is singing a few Schumann pieces this spring .... I'll blame my faux pas on that.

Yeah, that'll do. That's the ticket. :shifty:

Liesje 03-23-2010 10:48 AM

I prefer the Schubert version, but it has a sad association in my mind. I read a book about the Holocaust and there was a story about a man imprisoned at Mauthausen working in the granite quarry and they would ask him to sing Ave Maria. One day he was singing and they pushed him off the cliff into the quarry. I can't not think of that when I hear the song.

UberBeaver 03-23-2010 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen (Post 6702353)
foxnews.com

The beautiful strains of "Ave Maria" will not echo through the marbled walls of the Supreme Court, nor will arguments, over Justice Samuel Alito's objections, in a case about the playing of the standard at a high school graduation.

On Monday the high court announced it will not hear the appeal of Kathryn Nurre who with other classmates was prohibited from performing an instrumental version of the popular tune at their graduation ceremony from an Everett, Washington high school.

The school's principal after consultation with other officials struck the song from the graduation program. District superintendent Carol Whitehead justified the decision by reasoning that "many people would see [the song] as religious in nature."

Nurre sued the school district claiming its decision violated her constitutional rights. Lower courts have ruled in favor of the district but in their petition to the Supreme Court, Nurre's lawyers contend "the censorship in this case involves political correctness run amuck."

They take issue with the lower court's reasoning that the district's action was justified because of concerns that people would complain about the song in a reprise of an issue raised following a previous graduation ceremony. Nurre's lawyers further argued the school district’s decision justifies the sacrifice of artistic and student expression "to a heckler's veto that seeks to sanitize even the remotest vestige of religion from public life."

Justice Alito announced his disagreement with the high court's decision to stay out of the case by writing the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals decision "is not easy to square with our free speech jurisprudence."

Lawyers for the school district asked the justices not to take case claiming the Ninth Circuit ruling last year was correct and that the issues presented by Nurre failed to offer the type of significant legal conflict that is normally resolved by the high court. Furthermore it defended the decision as within its authority to maintain "the orderly administration" of education for its students.

The school district concluded its argument to the justices by saying it does not seek "to deprive students of learning opportunities, nor is it seeking to purge altogether religious-inspired works from public education. Instead, it simply sought to provide an atmosphere in which all graduates could celebrate their academic achievements, free from controversial messages....the District simply had no choice but to act as it did, within the confines of the law."

Alito was sharply critical of the school officials and their decision. He said that when the school gives students the opportunity to express themselves they must respect the students' right to free speech. "School administrators may not behave like puppet masters who create the illusion that students are engaging in personal expression when in fact the school administration is pulling the strings," Alito wrote.

I can't believe I agree with Alito. I think the Ave Maria falls into a different category - it's not just "religious music". I think it's gone far beyond that, like a Beethoven or Back piece - it's immediately recognizable, certainly beautiful, and guess what - IT'S IN LATIN. No one even knows WTF they're saying. Let the girl sing her song. Dopes. I bet 90% of the people listening don't know what "Ave" even means.


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