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Justin24 07-12-2006 11:22 AM

Israel Versus the Rest of the Middle East
 
Seems things are really heating up now. Two more Soldiers have been Kidnapped and 7 Soldiers have been killed.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/737634.html

On top of that Israel is begining an offensive against Lebanon, which killed the 7 soldiers and have two soldiers as POW's.

Harry Vest 07-12-2006 05:30 PM

Both sides are fu#*ed!!!
I know that's such a simplistic statement but...
IT'S TRUE!!!!

verte76 07-12-2006 05:50 PM

Both of the sides are screwed up big time. :mad: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:

Justin24 07-12-2006 05:54 PM

Will this be Israels Iraq?

Earnie Shavers 07-12-2006 06:31 PM

I don't think this one's going to be turned around that easily, and it doesn't really sound like anyone wants it to.

silja 07-12-2006 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justin24
Will this be Israels Iraq?
That's a bit simplistic. How would you compare the two?

Justin24 07-12-2006 11:04 PM

Will this be a long drown out war, where countless lives will be lost. Israel could have negotiated the release of the POW.

melon 07-12-2006 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justin24
Will this be a long drown out war, where countless lives will be lost. Israel could have negotiated the release of the POW.
Israel has played this game before. This is why Hamas and Hezbollah played this card again.

Israel's military is actually vastly superior to that of its neighbors. It is ultimately a matter of restraint that prevents Israel from steamrolling over the entire region. For all the tough talk between Israel and Syria, for instance, Syria is incapable of adequately defending itself against Israel.

Unfortunately, I do think that while Israel is justified in doing what it does, it also contributes to the problem that continues the fanaticism. That is, these governments are effectively so weak as to be incapable of taking care of the basic needs of its peoples. As such, "faith-based" terrorist groups like Hezbollah and Hamas come in and fill the void--in exchange, of course, for undying devotion to their cause. Destroying Lebanon's infrastructure completely would likely breed more terrorism, but, at the same time, Lebanon has done nothing to stop Hezbollah's terrorist activities.

Eventually, it becomes a balancing act, and Israel has certainly sat back and taken plenty of abuse over the last few years.

Melon

Earnie Shavers 07-12-2006 11:47 PM

I agree. You just always hope that the decision makers know where the line is, and the people in their ear know it as well.

AchtungBono 07-13-2006 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by melon


Israel has played this game before. This is why Hamas and Hezbollah played this card again.

Israel's military is actually vastly superior to that of its neighbors. It is ultimately a matter of restraint that prevents Israel from steamrolling over the entire region. For all the tough talk between Israel and Syria, for instance, Syria is incapable of adequately defending itself against Israel.

Unfortunately, I do think that while Israel is justified in doing what it does, it also contributes to the problem that continues the fanaticism. That is, these governments are effectively so weak as to be incapable of taking care of the basic needs of its peoples. As such, "faith-based" terrorist groups like Hezbollah and Hamas come in and fill the void--in exchange, of course, for undying devotion to their cause. Destroying Lebanon's infrastructure completely would likely breed more terrorism, but, at the same time, Lebanon has done nothing to stop Hezbollah's terrorist activities.

Eventually, it becomes a balancing act, and Israel has certainly sat back and taken plenty of abuse over the last few years.

Melon

Thank you for that Melon.

Its very strange to wake up one morning and find your country at war - even though its been a long time coming. We've been attacked by Hizbollah too many times and the time has come for us to say enough is enough!

I know that there are many who consider us the aggressors and, like Justin said, it is us versus the entire Middle East - this is really not true.
Every single action Israel has taken has been in direct response to aggression against us. Whether its Quassam rockets fired into our cities or midnight raids against our soldiers or suicide bombers killing women and children - we NEVER strike first.

Regardless of how you feel about our actions, whether for or against, I'm sure you'll all join my hopes that this will end quickly and with minimum losses for both sides.

Peace!!!



+++++

For further clarification, here is some background on our current campaigns.

(from the Yahoo website):

13.7.06


BEIRUT, Lebanon - Israel intensified its attacks against Lebanon on Thursday, blasting Beirut's international airport and the southern part of the country in its heaviest air campaign against its neighbor in 24 years. Nearly three dozen civilians were killed, officials said.

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The strikes on the airport, which damaged three runways, came hours before Israel also imposed a naval blockade on Lebanon to cut off supply routes to Lebanese militants.

The shockwaves from the fighting began to be felt a day after Hezbollah snatched two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid. The escalation of violence in the Middle East pushed crude oil prices to a new intraday record of $75.88 a barrel. Western countries, Russia and the United Nations called for restraint and demanded the soldiers be released.

Israel said it was seeking to end once and for all Hezbollah's presence on Lebanon's southern border, while the guerrillas insisted they would only release the soldiers in exchange for Israel freeing Arab prisoners.

The airport, located in the Hezbollah-controlled southern suburbs of Beirut, was closed after the attacks and flights were diverted to nearby Cyprus. It was the first time since Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon and occupation of Beirut that the airport was hit by Israel.

Israel also fired a missile at the building housing the studios of Hezbollah's Al-Manar TV in the southern suburbs of Beirut on Thursday morning, the channel's press officer Ibrahim Farhat told The Associated Press. One person was hurt, but the station continued to broadcast.

Overnight Israeli attacks in southern Lebanon, meanwhile, killed 35 civilians and wounded dozens more, Lebanese security officials said. A family of 10 and another family of seven were killed in their homes in the village of Dweir near Nabatiyeh, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity as they were not authorized to speak to the press.

Later Thursday, Lebanese guerrillas fired volleys of rockets at northern Israel, killing an Israeli woman in her home in the border town of Nahariya, officials said. Five people were wounded. Thousands of civilians spent Wednesday night in underground shelters.

Eight Israeli soldiers and three Lebanese were killed in fighting Wednesday.

Air force Maj. Gen. Amir Eshel said the campaign was likely Israel's largest ever in Lebanon, measured in number of targets hit in one night and the complexity of the strikes. The last major military offensive against Lebanon was in 1996 when about 150 Lebanese civilians were killed.

On Wednesday, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert called the Hezbollah raid an "act of war" by Lebanon and threatened "very, very, very painful" retaliation. The Cabinet, meeting in the wake of the military's highest daily death toll in four years, decided to continue the army operation and call on the international community to disarm Hezbollah, according to participants.

On Thursday, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said the offensive in Lebanon has far-reaching objectives, including pushing Hezbollah militants away from the Israeli border and eventually sidelining the group altogether.

"We must neutralize the hostile terrorist infrastructure that exists in Lebanon," he said.

Senior Israeli military officials said Israel warned the Lebanese government that it plans to strike offices and homes of Hezbollah leaders in the southern suburbs of Beirut.

Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz also demanded that Lebanese army forces be deployed along the border, saying Israel would not allow Hezbollah guerrillas to reoccupy its positions there. Lebanon has long refused to do this, saying that it is not in business of protecting Israel's northern border.

The Lebanese government said Wednesday that it had not known of the Hezbollah operation, did not condone it and bore no responsibility for it. The Lebanese Cabinet, which includes two Hezbollah ministers, urged the U.N. Security Council to intervene.

Hezbollah's brazen cross-border raid Wednesday opened a second front for the Israeli army. The army launched an incursion into the Gaza Strip more than two weeks ago to search for another Israeli soldier who was captured by Hamas-linked militants.

At least 23 Palestinians were killed in Gaza on Wednesday. And an Israeli airstrike early Thursday destroyed the building housing the Hamas-controlled Palestinian Foreign Ministry.

Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah on Wednesday offered to trade the two captured Israeli soldiers for Arab prisoners, and warned Israel that his guerrillas would fight if attacked. The group says it has over 10,000 rockets and has in the past struck northern Israeli communities in retaliation for attacks against Lebanese civilians.

The attack on the airport occurred shortly after 6 a.m. Thursday. Warplanes struck three runways, leaving a large crater and seven smaller holes, airport officials said. Two flights approaching the airport were diverted to Larnaca airport on Cyprus.

The main terminal building of the $500-million airport, which was built in the late 1990s, remained intact.

The Israeli military confirmed it had struck the airport, saying the facility is "a central hub for the transfer of weapons and supplies to the Hezbollah terrorist organization."

In its overnight attacks, Israeli aircraft and artillery targeted roads and bridges, as well as Hezbollah positions and houses of guerrilla members and leaders. A bridge on the main highway between Beirut and southern Lebanon was hit by big bombs that left huge craters, blocking traffic.

Airstrikes also hit deep inside eastern Lebanon, striking a civic center attached to a Shiite Muslim mosque near the town of Baalbek, as well as a transmission antenna for Al-Manar, witnesses reported. The group's broadcasts stopped in the area.

Israeli jets also blasted the Khardali Bridge on the Litani River, 10 miles north of the Lebanese-Israeli border, witnesses said.

Hezbollah TV reported that guerrillas has fired Katyusha rockets at the Israeli border town of Kiryat Shmona and targeted an airstrip in the upper Galilee panhandle. Another barrage of rockets targeted Nahariya near the coast.

Nahariya Mayor Jackie Sabag said the whole town had been shut down and residents were urged to stay in underground shelters. Patients at the town's hospital were moved to rooms on lower floors.

The Israeli army said several rockets had landed more than 12 miles south of the border, showing that Hezbollah has managed to extend its missiles' range.

Israel and Lebanon have a history of conflict, punctuated by a full-scale Israeli invasion in 1982, and its 18-year occupation of a buffer zone in southern Lebanon that was intended to prevent attacks on Israel.

nbcrusader 07-13-2006 10:48 AM

Broad Support For Terrorism?
 
Active and passive support creates this major player.

The Nation of Hezbollah

Quote:

BEIRUT — As Lebanon's largest political party and most potent armed force, Hezbollah has long been described as a "state within a state" — a Shiite Muslim minigovernment boasting close ties to Iran and Syria.

But Wednesday's move across the border to capture two Israeli soldiers went a step further: Hezbollah acted as the state itself, threatening to drag Lebanon into a war.

The country's elected government was still in meetings Wednesday, arguing over what to say in public, when Hezbollah chief Sheik Hassan Nasrallah went before television cameras with a pointed threat for the ruling elite.

"Today is a time for solidarity and cooperation, and we can have discussions later. I warn you against committing any error. This is a national responsibility," the cleric said, looking every inch the head of state.

Any criticism over the capture of the two Israeli soldiers would be tantamount to colluding with Israel, Nasrallah said, making it clear that he expected citizens and officials to heed his orders.

"To the Lebanese people, both officials and non-officials, nobody should behave in a way that encourages the enemy to attack Lebanon, and nobody should say anything that gives cover to attack Lebanon," he said.

Nasrallah was careful to frame the raid — which occurred less than three weeks after Palestinian militant groups, including the Hamas military wing, captured an Israeli soldier in a similar cross-border attack just outside the Gaza Strip — as a noble strike on behalf of Lebanon and Arab nationalism. Its goal was to free Lebanese and other Arab prisoners, many of them Palestinian, held in Israel by forcing Israel into a prisoner swap, he said.

Nasrallah was unclear on how many prisoners he was demanding be released.

Since Israel withdrew from southern Lebanon in 2000, Hezbollah has generally limited its attacks on Israelis to one small patch of disputed land known as Shabaa Farms, which Hezbollah claims as Lebanese territory.

But Hezbollah had long planned the audacious change to a cross-border raid aimed at capturing Israeli soldiers. The group failed in a similar operation late last year.
Ten Thousand Katyusha rockets sit in Southern Lebanon, point at indescriminate targets in Israel. The Beruit government is reaping what it has sowed.

JMScoopy 07-13-2006 11:26 AM

GO ISRAEL!!! :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

they put up with enough shit, i support 'em 100%.

joyfulgirl 07-13-2006 11:37 AM

Regardless of how I feel about the politics, which leans against Israel's military tactics, all I know is that I have Palestinian friends, Israeli friends, and Lebanese friends, and right now there is one particular Israeli soldier that I am concerned about. :(

AEON 07-13-2006 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JMScoopy
GO ISRAEL!!! :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

they put up with enough shit, i support 'em 100%.

While I am not as enthusiastic - I agree with the basic premise. A nation has a right to defend itself.

AchtungBono - thanks for the information you posted!

Tiger Edge 07-13-2006 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by joyfulgirl
...and right now there is one particular Israeli soldier that I am concerned about. :(
Same here. :(


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