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Old 09-16-2017, 04:21 PM   #46
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Violence or not, the police have more important things to do than work at a concert right now. There's no need to descend into a debate on here.
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Old 09-16-2017, 04:23 PM   #47
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Violence or not, the police have more important things to do than work at a concert right now.
No question about that.
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:33 PM   #48
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If cancelling the U2 concert means safety personnel and police can focus on keeping the peace instead of there being a greater chance of violence, there's no choice - it was the right call.
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:49 PM   #49
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What's going on with you, America?
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:53 PM   #50
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That's better
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:10 PM   #51
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What's going on with you, America?


We've oppressed many people for far too long and it's starting to come around.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:15 PM   #52
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While it's true that America has a sad history of oppression of its own ethnic and racial minorities, it's also freed more people that probably any other nation in history. Something, incidentally, that Bono would be the first to tell you.

And in terms of oppression, America is an amateur compared to some of the other great 20th century powers.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:23 PM   #53
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:27 PM   #54
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They cancelled the concert because their wasn't enough security personal to protect the fans and them from the general concert stuff.

It wasn't violence -- protestors (most seem very peaceful to me) were arrested (32 last night) and more will be out tonight. And a great place from them to protest would be a high profile concert or course where a lot of police would be. So it would be a nightmare for all involved. Not the true nightmare of being scared to be black while just living your life.

So I 100% agree it should have been cancelled. I disagree that violence was the reason other than the violent act committed by one cop.

We need U2 now more than ever. I love most of you on this board. And the ones I don't -- I still wish you a good life.
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Old 09-16-2017, 07:07 PM   #55
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Hey Nick we all know you're the contrarian view guy. But suggesting Bono doesn't keep himself highly educated on the matters of the day is just asinine.

Disagree with him, think he need to "stick to playing music maaaaan" ? Sure, fine, whatever. Matters of opinion.

Suggesting the guy just speaks out of his ass and doesn't actually educate himself on these issues before he speaks about them is just stupid.
This 100%.

Not an attack on Nick, as I saw he clarified his views for us a little.

Incidentally, the only time I disagreed with any public position Bono took was Ferguson. I won't go back into it here but basically I thought it stood out from his normal pattern of being exceptionally well informed. I also said at the time, on here and everywhere, that my respect and admiration for the man was not in the least bit diminished. I never thought he was against the police.

Bono is informed on and able to talk about issues to a level that really approaches the level of shocking to me. The way he is able to fit his values, which have been consistent over the time he's been in the public eye, into almost any situation and talk intelligently and realistically in ways that relate to people is amazing.

As for tonight, of course they had to cancel this show. We know this band- regardless of tensions or controversy or a generally dangerous, uncertain climate- they would and have played absent specific security concerns being present. The immediacy of this situation left them no option and U2 made the right call.

No one needs my personal take, but I'll note that I am a police dispatcher in a town near Boston. Don't ever believe that this issue is anything but gray and nuanced. Much like Bono used to say about the situation in Ireland during the Troubles.

We have a long history in the US of law enforcement as a noble profession, one in which the vast majority are in for the right reasons and do the job with honor, professionalism, bravery and respect for all people. We also have a long history of racial disparities that manifest themselves in policing. Most due to the fact that the police are drawn from the imperfect society they are responsible for protecting and some very tragically are due to people with hateful views who can and do make it to the job. Most bias is implicit, but some is explicit.

These individual cases that we have seen in the news the last few years break down as they've always broken down: some legitimate uses of force in self defense, some not necessarily murder or brutality but negligence by the police and some outright murder hiding behind a badge and uniform. A lot of nuance in between.

What they all have in common is that they are flashpoints due to the issues that we as a society have finally started to address in a serious way the last few years. Criminal justice reform measures have been supported by prosecutors, police, defense attorneys and both parties in Congress. We've seen an end to suspicion less stop and frisk in NYC and elsewhere. We had a pretty productive dialogue after Obama's "beer summit" in the wake of the Henry Louis Gates incident. Police departments are acknowledging the need to change- and actually changing.

What has, in my view, stopped this dead in its tracks is Donald Trump and the rise of extreme right wing views in the mainstream primarily. Secondarily, Russia egged on some of the more violent, non truthful elements of the protest movement even prior to his election. This was done to sew chaos and division in America.

There are people who have always been inclined toward violence and then there are people who feel like they are alone and in danger due to the fact that we have a President and an attorney general who have made it their life's work to undo recent progress on this issue. We see things like the Sheriff Arpaio pardon. Like Trump's urging the police to slam handcuffed prisoners' heads into car roofs. It's the regular, non violent people who now feel attacked and hopeless that we have to worry about becoming violent. If they do, they can and should be held accountable because that's never the way to go. But we are making it more likely when we should be making it less likely.

This is a scary, sad and heartbreaking time for this country. Bono struck the perfect tone on instagram. That is what, ultimately, we need to keep in site. There are literally thousands of cases with their own facts and circumstances we can get bogged down in. It won't help one little bit. What is needed is the understanding that the majority of people in this country who are committed to advancing the cause of equality through non violent, productive means must take a stand and work for progress to come to pass.
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Old 09-16-2017, 07:20 PM   #56
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Don't even try
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Old 09-16-2017, 07:55 PM   #57
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Ed Sheeran and Mike Birbiglia (who I love btw) also had to postpone weekend gigs.

I assume U2 will make sure to stop in St. Louis for the SOE tour -- but the Joshua Tree may miss them. Maybe they'll make sure to play the whole album for them.
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Old 09-16-2017, 10:00 PM   #58
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3 pages in and already fighting. Can't even come together on this?

Seriously -- this is the main issue --. ***People saying "you or someone else isn't qualified to speak out on the issues at hand." *** that's the problem. Because you can't have the leader of the free world (someone else who doesn't read books) be able to affect every issue in the world and then tell me or you or Jemele Hill she doesn't know anything. Stick to what you do. But the people that are in charge they don't know shit either! We're all misinformed just as much as the experts. Who decides who is smart and dumb?

Bono , Me, You, The idiot Trump voter, The dumb Bernie voter, the fucking annoying Clinton voter, a nobel prize winner, a plumber, a firefighter, every body you can see with your eyes -- has an opinion on things.

Who do you think is protesting right now?

I keep hearing this "stick to stuff" mostly from white people and that's the wrong fucking attitude. We're all humans. And it's this ugly shit that gets stuff done. I don't want the U2 show cancelled. But maybe this one show getting cancelled will lead to something better. Probably not. But one thing Bono and me shouldn't do is shut the fuck up about it. It's time to get louder.
AMEN! We need to be standing, tall and loud, with our brothers and sisters. Not ducking our heads and hoping it will all go away. It can't. There is no peace without justice.
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:02 AM   #59
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What's going on with you, America?
Protest culture. People have forgotten how to be upset without and breaking things, starting fires, and disrupting society in general.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:55 AM   #60
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Protest culture. People have forgotten how to be upset without and breaking things, starting fires, and disrupting society in general.


Yes...because every single protest movement in American history was completely non-violent and didn't disrupt society in any way...except for those damn colonists and their destruction of tea
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