The "casual fan" excuse

[ZooMacPhisto800]

Mods - see Disclaimer at bottom

Those of us who critique the setlist are often met with the "casual fan" excuse. That is that U2 has to play certain songs because they have to please the "casual fans". This approach is grounded in the notion that U2 want to please as many in attendance as possible and, indirectly, maintain their status as the greatest band in the known universe.

I'd argue that U2 can play to these casual fans (amongst others) without constantly playing their greatest, greatest hits...

"Casual fans" know more songs that we're giving them credit for. They don't know only the "greatest, greatest hits", they also know the greatest hits. The fans currently termed "casual" ones, who seem to know only WOWY, Streets, SBS... would more aptly be called "people who own a radio" In other words, everybody knows those greatest, greatest hits. Casual fans, au contraire, bothering to buy a ticket, know a whole lot of U2...

IMHO (in my humble opinion...)...

Boy - A number
October - Not so much
War - A number
TUF - Lots of
TJT - Lots of
Rattle - Lots of
Achtung - Entire album
Zooropa - Most
Pop - Most
ATYCLB - Lots of
HTDAAB - Chunk of
NLOTH - U2 can play this, without justification anyway...


U2 doesn't have to vary their setlist every night - That's not what's being asked for... they just need to know that there is a greater number of songs from which to draw than they seem to realize... Even U2's "Casual fans" know a whole lot of U2... they are the biggest band in the known universe.

I think U2 would like to know this...


Disclaimer:
Mods, please feel free to merge this if you deem it appropriate. I think I'm coming from a different angle, and addressing an important issue, but if you feel this entire thing is redundant, please merge.

 

[monsieur fly]

Very well put. They need to cast the net more widely.

 

[mikal]

this is my realistic view of which songs a casual fan would recognize:

Boy - I Will Follow
October - N/A
War - Sunday Bloody Sunday, New Year's Day, 40
TUF - Pride, Bad
JT - Streets, Still Haven't Found, WOWY, In God's Country
R&H - Desire, Angel Of Harlem, When Love Comes To Town, All I Want Is You
AB - EBTTRT, One, Mysterious Way, The Fly, WGRYWH
Zooropa - Numb, Lemon
Pop - Discotheque, Staring At The Sun
ATYCLB - BD, Elevation, Walk On, Stuck
HTDAAB - Vertigo, COBL, SYCMIOYO, OOTS


maybe a handful of other songs would be familiar, but i wouldn't expect someone who casually like the band to know any more than the above list, therefore the "casual fan" excuse stands.

 

[Galeongirl]

Casual fans knowing all of AB?

You're WAY off with your definition dude.

A casual fan may own a couple of U2 records, likes them enough to go to a show. They usually know the SINGLES. Which are U2's big hits. Which are SBS, WOWY, One, Streets, Beautiful Day, Elevation, Vertigo and COBL amongst others.

 

[Tom in Boston]

I think you're giving casual fans too much credit. They certainly don't know most of Zooropa and Pop.

Look at the tracklistings of the greatest hits albums and I think that's a good indicator.

 

[zwervers2]

this is my realistic view of which songs a casual fan would recognize:

Boy - I Will Follow
October - N/A
War - Sunday Bloody Sunday, New Year's Day, 40
TUF - Pride, Bad
JT - Streets, Still Haven't Found, WOWY, In God's Country
R&H - Desire, Angel Of Harlem, When Love Comes To Town, All I Want Is You
AB - EBTTRT, One, Mysterious Way, The Fly, WGRYWH
Zooropa - Numb, Lemon
Pop - Discotheque, Staring At The Sun
ATYCLB - BD, Elevation, Walk On, Stuck
HTDAAB - Vertigo, COBL, SYCMIOYO, OOTS


maybe a handful of other songs would be familiar, but i wouldn't expect someone who casually like the band to know any more than the above list, therefore the "casual fan" excuse stands.

wait just a minute here Mikal. They know In gods country but do not know the unforgetable fire? They know Lemon but do not know Stay?

I think not

 

[mikal]

wait just a minute here Mikal. They know In gods country but do not know the unforgetable fire? They know Lemon but do not know Stay?

I think not

yeah, but like i said, when you start digging deeper into their catalog, it all depends on their exposure, which albums are their favorite, etc...

 

[zwervers2]

yeah, but like i said, when you start digging deeper into their catalog, it all depends on their exposure, which albums are their favorite, etc...

hmmm , maybe you are right. I dont know. I tend to say that a lot of people I know would regognize UF better than IGC, but I am not sure

 

[mikal]

i think it all depends on region too. for example, in the midwest U.S., i don't know that "Stay" was ever played on the radio, yet everyone knew Lemon because of the crazy video and Bono's high singing.

 

[ZooMacPhisto800]

Some people are naming all the radio singles. These songs, as the name suggests, are heard on the radio. So... anybody with a radio hears them.

There must be something to differentiate "casual fans" from mere people owning radios... I'm sure that if you bother to call yourself a "casual fan" you've picked an album or two... likely TJT and AB!... you don't know that "A Room At The Heartbreak Hotel" is the b-side to "Angel of Harlem", nor that "Lady With The Spinning Head" off the EVBTTRT single is awesome... but you have listened to AB! and would recognize the tunes.

U2 is a big band, I think some of us are forgetting that...

 

[BVS]

hmmm , maybe you are right. I dont know. I tend to say that a lot of people I know would regognize UF better than IGC, but I am not sure

This also differs from country to country.

In the US I would say more know IGC.

Mikal thank you for bringing some reality, that's always needed in a ZooMac thread.

 

[mikal]

Some people are naming all the radio singles. These songs, as the name suggests, are heard on the radio. So... anybody with a radio hears them.

There must be something to differentiate "casual fans" from mere people owning radios... I'm sure that if you bother to call yourself a "casual fan" you've picked an album or two... likely TJT and AB!... you don't know that "A Room At The Heartbreak Hotel" is the b-side to "Angel of Harlem", nor that "Lady With The Spinning Head" off the EVBTTRT single is awesome... but you have listened to AB! and would recognize the tunes.

U2 is a big band, I think some of us are forgetting that...

yeah, but casual fans also wouldn't listen to the albums front to back as extensively as the people posting here.

i can say that i'm a casual fan of Bloc Party, for example. but i could only really name or remember about 10 of their songs, max.

 

[BVS]

Some people are naming all the radio singles. These songs, as the name suggests, are heard on the radio. So... anybody with a radio hears them.

There must be something to differentiate "casual fans" from mere people owning radios... I'm sure that if you bother to call yourself a "casual fan" you've picked an album or two... likely TJT and AB!... you don't know that "A Room At The Heartbreak Hotel" is the b-side to "Angel of Harlem", nor that "Lady With The Spinning Head" off the EVBTTRT single is awesome... but you have listened to AB! and would recognize the tunes.

U2 is a big band, I think some of us are forgetting that...

I think you are missing a big point, yes they may own some of these albums, but it doesn't mean they listen to the whole album.

U2 attracts a lot of casual music fans and fanatics alike. So it's not that they have casual fans, these casual fans are casual music fans so they don't listen to albums they listen to singles and radio.

 

[digitize]

i think it all depends on region too. for example, in the midwest U.S., i don't know that "Stay" was ever played on the radio, yet everyone knew Lemon because of the crazy video and Bono's high singing.

In this part of the US, people know SBS, NYD, Pride, WOWY, Still Haven't Found, Streets, One, and if you're lucky Mysterious Ways from the 80s and 90s. Then they know BD, Vertigo, occasionally COBL, Viva La Vida and occasionally Magnificen from this decade.

Although there's a radio station here in Austin that is rather fond of playing RHMT and MOS.

 

[ZooMacPhisto800]

yeah, but casual fans also wouldn't listen to the albums front to back as extensively as the people posting here.

i can say that i'm a casual fan of Bloc Party, for example. but i could only really name or remember about 10 of their songs, max.

You're a casual fan of Bloc Party and you pretty much know 1/3rd of their work.

I don't like Bon Jovi at all and I still know the entire Slipper When Wet and Keep the Faith albums in addition to all their radio singles...

 

[BVS]

I don't like Bon Jovi at all and I still know the entire Slipper When Wet and Keep the Faith albums in addition to all their radio singles...

Slippery When Wet you have an excuse that came out in the days of cassettes it wasn't easy fast forwarding to the songs you wanted to hear, no excuse for Keep the Faith, it's OK you're a Bon Jovi fan, don't be afraid to admit it.

 

[mikal]

You're a casual fan of Bloc Party and you pretty much know 1/3rd of their work.

but as they release more albums, that ratio will decrease.

 

[Kinsa]

Casual fans knowing all of AB?

You're WAY off with your definition dude.

A casual fan may own a couple of U2 records, likes them enough to go to a show. They usually know the SINGLES. Which are U2's big hits. Which are SBS, WOWY, One, Streets, Beautiful Day, Elevation, Vertigo and COBL amongst others.

ITA with this. Add I Will Follow, New Years Day, Pride, ISHFWILF, Angel of Harlem, Mysterious Ways, and Walk On to that list, and that's about all an U.S. casual fan knows. Trust me, I live with one (my hubby). When I drag him to the concerts, he is THRILLED to hear these songs, because they are all that he knows. And I would say he easily represents 85-90% of a U.S. audience.

They know nothing of Pop or Zooropa, they got no radio play over here

 

[Tacvbo]

Just check the tracklist for u218. That's what U2 thinks the casual fan listens to, IMO

 

[ZooMacPhisto800]

Slippery When Wet you have an excuse that came out in the days of cassettes it wasn't easy fast forwarding to the songs you wanted to hear, no excuse for Keep the Faith, it's OK you're a Bon Jovi fan, don't be afraid to admit it.

That logic would then work for a bunch of U2 albums... "casual fans" thus exposed to a bunch of material.

 

[ZooMacPhisto800]

but as they release more albums, that ratio will decrease.

Why? Are you planning on not listening to any new BP?

 

[mikal]

Why? Are you planning on not listening to any new BP?

not really sure if i will. but i'm just a "casual fan", so there are no guarantees that i'll get to know their new material.

 

[ZooMacPhisto800]

So these "casual fans" have been listening to U2 single after U2 single on the radio over the years... presumably they like what they hear because they ultimately go to a show... and they never bother to think "Hey! Another good U2 song... maybe I should pick up an album and check these guys out"... and this has thought-process has repeated itself time after time after time... from year x to 2009.

 

[BVS]

That logic would then work for a bunch of U2 albums... "casual fans" thus exposed to a bunch of material.

I didn't say everyone who owned cassettes listened to the whole album though, you said you KNEW both those albums.

I knew a lot of people in the 80's that wouldn't even touch the b-side of albums they just kept listening to the A-sides one reason the second half of albums are still usually weaker it's a throwback to the days of vinyl and cassettes.

I'm sorry but you're really reaching... AGAIN.

 

[mikal]

So these "casual fans" have been listening to U2 single after U2 single on the radio over the years... presumably they like what they hear because they ultimately go to a show... and they never bother to think "Hey! Another good U2 song... maybe I should pick up an album and check these guys out"... and this has thought-process has repeated itself time after time after time... from year x to 2009.

yep.

:endthread:

 

[Niceman]

Boy - A number
October - Not so much
War - A number
TUF - Lots of
TJT - Lots of
Rattle - Lots of
Achtung - Entire album
Zooropa - Most
Pop - Most
ATYCLB - Lots of
HTDAAB - Chunk of
NLOTH - U2 can play this, without justification anyway...

Boy - I Will Follow, MAYBE Out of Control
October - No. (sadly)
War - Sunday Bloody Sunday, New Year's Day, maybe 40.
TUF - Pride, Bad. Possibly SOH or TUF.
TJT - Whole thing.
Rattle - the 4 singles.
Achtung - Whole thing.
Zooropa - Numb, Lemon.
Pop - No. (sadly)
ATYCLB - Lots of
HTDAAB - Chunk of
NLOTH - Doesn't mattr, play it.

 

[BVS]

So these "casual fans" have been listening to U2 single after U2 single on the radio over the years... presumably they like what they hear because they ultimately go to a show... and they never bother to think "Hey! Another good U2 song... maybe I should pick up an album and check these guys out"... and this has thought-process has repeated itself time after time after time... from year x to 2009.

Yes, they are called casual music fans. I know many of them, they don't even own albums anymore.

You are putting everyone in your shoes instead of the other way around, take a look outside of your little box and you'll find their are all kinds of people out there. There are casual music fans that like singles and still like live shows.

 

[catlhere]

I think the real issue isn't with "casual" fans or whether or not they know a certain song. In my opinion it has more to do with whether or not more fans LIKE the song. U2 plays the songs that the most fans will end up liking to hear. First of all, people overestimate how many casuals come to concerts. I would say a better word is "average" u2 fan. These "average" I would wager pretty confidently, don't just own U218. They have all the major albums from U2. Maybe the young people who don't buy albums and just pick songs off itunes. But the average U2 fan that makes up a majority of the crowd, owns almost all their CD's. So the problem boils down to which songs they ENJOY from those CD's. More people are going to want to hear WOWY over Exit, so U2 assumes that the best choice is to play that song nightly, because it will please the most fans. It's not that people don't know Exit, it's just most of the crowd probably wouldn't get as excited to hear it over a more well-known track from TJT, and U2 is all about getting people excited because they feed off that energy.

 

[mikal]

I think the real issue isn't with "casual" fans or whether or not they know a certain song. In my opinion it has more to do with whether or not more fans LIKE the song. U2 plays the songs that the most fans will end up liking to hear. First of all, people overestimate how many casuals come to concerts. I would say a better word is "average" u2 fan. These "average" I would wager pretty confidently, don't just own U218. They have all the major albums from U2. Maybe the young people who don't buy albums and just pick songs off itunes. But the average U2 fan that makes up a majority of the crowd, owns almost all their CD's. So the problem boils down to which songs they ENJOY from those CD's. More people are going to want to hear WOWY over Exit, so U2 assumes that the best choice is to play that song nightly, because it will please the most fans. It's not that people don't know Exit, it's just most of the crowd probably would get as excited to hear it over a more well-known track from TJT, and U2 is all about getting people excited because they feed off that energy.

great post.

 

[ZooMacPhisto800]

I didn't say everyone who owned cassettes listened to the whole album though, you said you KNEW both those albums.

I knew a lot of people in the 80's that wouldn't even touch the b-side of albums they just kept listening to the A-sides one reason the second half of albums are still usually weaker it's a throwback to the days of vinyl and cassettes.

I'm sorry but you're really reaching... AGAIN.

Are you kidding? You were linking my knowing an album to the technology available. I'm just asking you to apply your own logic...

PS. It doesn't help to conclude "you're reaching", that doesn't add any weight to your argument. If you really have a point, people will see it regardless of your spelling it out for them