Is this tour frustrating you?

[BVS]

maybe it's just over my head, but it seemed to me that the frustration angle could have been interesting, but like all "interesting/potentially controversial" threads on here they get hijacked by the usual suspects...

Just seems a bit daft that these people apparently have too much in their lives to care about internet setlists, but as soon as there's any sniff of a thread about setlists they poll up and take over...

Ah well. The Unknown Caller thread was good for a while...

If you wanted true discussion why would you start off with "are you frustrated like me"? Why not open the question up?

By definition how can you frustrated by a whole tour if you've seen one or no shows? "Watching" a tour from blue screen setlist is not experiencing a tour, therefore how are you frustrated? Do you honestly think Pearl Jam fans are happier fans knowing that "somewhere tonight they are playing a couple different songs than they did last night when I saw them, thank god"? I mean really?

You don't get frustrated about a movie by it's trailer, you don't get frustrated about a piece of art by seeing one square inch, you don't get frustrated about relationships that haven't even happened yet.

So why the hell is a U2 tour different than everything else in your life?

 

[BVS]

I have already set myself as a "moaner" not only of the setlist, but of the whole show concept (or lack of it) as well.

But, focusing on the setlist, some users, in these 10 pages, have already presented some alternatives that are veeeeeeeery much possible for the band to make. U2 doesn't change because they don't have that will.

a) No one needs, in 2009, 4 songs from ATYCLB in one setlist. Why not switching "Stuck in a Moment" by "White As Snow"? Why not removing "Elevation" from the middle set and including "Stand Up Comedy" or "Being Born" earlier or later in the set? Only this would represent two more songs from NLOTH.

b) No WOWY anymore. At least like this. AIWIY can do that job better these days and still there's a connection between "Ultraviolet" and MOS.

c) The band is happy with playing "Ultraviolet", okay. "Breathe" is the worst opener in more than 20 years. Why not moving it to the encore? I can imagine Bono singing it with the suspended micro and balancing himself during the solo... That's just another example...

d) I thought the encore was the space for some "jamming" and for some freedom (except when you have a rigid show concept like in Zoo Tv or Popmart). So, why has the encore have to be the exact same one for a whole tour? Those rehearsed songs like "Drowning Man" or the remix version of EBTTRT could've appeared here... just once.

e) After the initial promotional GOYB performances, everyone was expecting something really creative, outside of the plain rock clichéd performance. That's what we've been given. Plus, this was a natural show opener - with that intro, which is very good - ...but it's not in real life.

These are just examples of how things could work, but they don't.

How do you know "that no one needs" this or that?

WAS? Really, do you honestly think that would work in a stadium, honestly?

When has an encore been about jamming with U2?

Most of your examples would make this tour worse.

And I'm sorry you don't get the concept

 

[dal975]

This is a great discussion with a lot of excellent points. I have to say I also fall into the "frustrated" camp, but reading this thread has helped me focus my feelings down to one point: I don't feel like the band has a REAL relationship with its FANS. In fact, I think it's straight up divorced from its fans.

Good post. I know I did not quote your statements re: NIN, but how you feel about NIN is how I feel about Pearl Jam. PJ does tons of stuff that is incredibly gratifying and satisfying to its hardcore fans that U2 does not. It's a completely different experience being a fan of PJ ("different," not "better"). Since this is the concert and setlist thread, I'll focus on live stuff. It's incredibly rare on PJ message boards for there to be extended negativity regarding PJ's approach to touring and live shows (to be fair, there is lots of grumbling about the latest album in general). It's because with PJ, who aren't concerned with labels like "biggest band in the world" and don't put on a NASA show at their concerts, the hardcore community comes first, and everything else is secondary to that. Setlists vary night to night, b-sides and obscurities are routinely played, eddie takes requests from the crowd and they're actually played on the spot, eddie's talks and speeches are not identical show to show and digital soundboard recordings of each and every 27-30 song 2.5 hour show are commercially available for download ($9.99) generally 3-5 days following the concert. Let's put it this way, if U2 was like PJ (which I know they're not), U2 would come out in Oklahoma on Sunday night and open with Acrobat, followed by ASOH, Breathe, Magnificent, In God's Country, Beautiful Day, Boots, Bad, NYD, Even Better, Gloria, NLOTH...well you get the picture.

I think a major reason why some long-time, loyal, passionate U2 fans are justified in feeling frustrated these days is because U2 is not even pretending to cater to them anymore in terms of live performances. I mean, why can't U2 just play 40 once at the close of a show, even if it is just one verse Bono and Edge acoustically? Don't they know how happy even that little gesture would make those hardcore fans who stayed past MOS? Doesn't the band recall how magical it was for thousands of folks to leave a stadium singing "how long" on the way out? It's the little things like that which are clearly in their control that simply don't occur anymore and while I resign myself to having no expectations, I understand the frustration of fans.

 

[gvox]

Try "White as Snow" in the place of "Stuck". Try "Stand Up Comedy" in the place of "Elevation". And, of course, just find some way to try "Fez" at least once.

For the love of God no. That goes for Cedars also.

And actually far less reason to be playing Walk On. Fez-BB could triumphantly take that spot in the setlist!

This is delusional. There is no way they'd get more love for Fez than Walk On. There is no point to EDIT: PLAYING the song, period.

I feel there are pieces of an exemplary tour to be found somewhere in this mess, but every time U2 gets closer, they stop digging. Take TUF, UC, Stay, UTEOTW, and YBR and you have an incredible midsection. Take two of those and add ATYCLB tracks and you have a lukewarm miasma. Plus, they absolutely refuse to do anything new with the encore, as if the current trio they have is untouchable, unprecedented brilliance.

Agreed.

How do you know "that no one needs" this or that?

WAS? Really, do you honestly think that would work in a stadium, honestly?

Most of your examples would make this tour worse.

Let me add that every time U2 shows up on stage, a good 55,000 or more need to hear WOWY. Trust me, they do.

And the other two sentences fully apply to the 'unplayed 4 NLOTH songs' that the extremely tiny vocal minority here want. Want to see a show fall flat on it's face? Play Fez, Cedars and White as Snow in the same show. Mass exodus.

I guess most people don't understand that the main goal at any show is to keep 95% of the crowd in the venue, not be looking around at the end of the show going 'hey - where did everybody go?'

 

[zwervers2]

Really? Come on... This thread was designed for one purpose only.

A mindreader now are you BVS? What's her birthdaypresent?
Thrill me with your acumen.

 

[Niceman]

This is delusional. There is no way they'd get more love for Fez than Walk On. There is no point to the song, period.

Yeah, I guess I'm crazy for wanting them to drop a song that sucked when it was new 9 years ago, that was only brought back for political reasons, for a brilliant one..... What am I thinking!?!?!?!?

"No point" To Fez? Are you thick? Seriously, you honestly think that song has no point, no meaning? Or do I completely misunderstand you???????? I HOPE I completely misunderstand you because that's CRAZY talk!

 

[m0nkeyb0y]

PJ does tons of stuff that is incredibly gratifying and satisfying to its hardcore fans that U2 does not.

Wait until Live Nation acquires TicketMaster....

 

[ZooMacPhisto800]

I think we need Chris Crocker to deliver a "Leave U2 alone" speech...

 

[gvox]

Yeah, I guess I'm crazy for wanting them to drop a song that sucked when it was new 9 years ago, that was only brought back for political reasons, for a brilliant one..... What am I thinking!?!?!?!?

"No point" To Fez? Are you thick? Seriously, you honestly think that song has no point, no meaning? Or do I completely misunderstand you???????? I HOPE I completely misunderstand you because that's CRAZY talk!

No, you understood me perfectly. There's no point to playing Fez. It's boring, it has no chorus, in fact it's not even a complete song really. It's barely even a passable b-side. Walk On is an actual song, and it's been well received even by non-hardcore/casual U2 fans. Fez would go over like a lead balloon. They have to be careful how many beer break songs they play you know, they don't want to be responsible for a million accidents on the way home

Didn't take much for you to get all nasty, huh?

 

[Niceman]

No, you understood me perfectly. There's no point to playing Fez. It's boring, it has no chorus, in fact it's not even a complete song really. It's barely even a passable b-side. Walk On is an actual song, and it's been well received even by non-U2 fans. Fez would go over like a lead balloon. They have to be careful how many beer break songs they play you know, they don't want to be responsible for a million accidents on the way home

Didn't take much for you to get all nasty, huh?

You thought I was nasty? I thought you called me delusional for wanting a song I like to be played.....

Anyway, Walk On is the weakest song they play this tour. You like it, which is fantastic, but I don't think there's anyone else in the audience hoping it turns up. In fact, when I was there everyone in the inner circle was groaning at the stupidity of the masks....The song was put up with, not sung along with, not a highlight.

You don't think Fez-BB is a complete song? Then we have very different tastes. You prefer what I consider one of their low points to what I consider great work. That's all.

 

[m0nkeyb0y]

flame war!!

 

[Niceman]

This is delusional. There is no way they'd get more love for Fez than Walk On. There is no point to EDIT: PLAYING the song, period.

Bravo for editing the post AFTER it's been commented on and quoted!

 

[gvox]

You thought I was nasty? I thought you called me delusional for wanting a song I like to be played.....

Anyway, Walk On is the weakest song they play this tour. You like it, which is fantastic, but I don't think there's anyone else in the audience hoping it turns up. In fact, when I was there everyone in the inner circle was groaning at the stupidity of the masks....The song was put up with, not sung along with, not a highlight.

You don't think Fez-BB is a complete song? Then we have very different tastes. You prefer what I consider one of their low points to what I consider great work. That's all.

Reread my post. I said your claim that Fez would be better received (assuming that's what you meant by 'triumphant') was delusional. You said I was thick. Whatever.

No, everyone was not groaning at the masks, that's not even remotely correct. And it's hardly the weakest song they play, they are really playing hard on it and it's working.

Fez would not have made the cut on at least 3 other of U2's best albums, and for good reason. It's not finished. There's nothing for the audience in general to grab ahold of in it. For atmospheric ambient music, yes, it's brilliant. As a whole song? Way short of the mark.

 

[gvox]

Bravo for editing the post AFTER it's been commented on and quoted!

That's typically done when the OP realizes that something they said may have has clearly been misunderstood, so clarifying it with a big EDIT helps there.

 

[Niceman]

Reread my post. I said your claim that Fez would be better received (assuming that's what you meant by 'triumphant') was delusional. You said I was thick. Whatever.

No, everyone was not groaning at the masks, that's not even remotely correct. And it's hardly the weakest song they play, they are really playing hard on it and it's working.

Fez would not have made the cut on at least 3 other of U2's best albums, and for good reason. It's not finished. There's nothing for the audience in general to grab ahold of in it. For atmospheric ambient music, yes, it's brilliant. As a whole song? Way short of the mark.

Ok. Let's take a step back. I honestly think that you and I have misunderstood each other a little bit.

I promise not to call you "thick" again if you can avoid calling me delusional? Deal?????

When you said "There is no point to that song." I then asked if I was misunderstanding your saying that the song had "no point, no meaning." You then told me that I understood you correctly, but it is becoming clear that I DID NOT. Your correction (done after telling me that we did understand each other) changes what you said to that there would be no reason TO PLAY the song. This is a different statement.

You say that not everyone was groaning at the masks when I saw them play at Foxboro on September 21st in the inner circle. Really? Are you sure??????? I saw a lot of people laughing at them, throwing them derisively to the muddy floor, but if when you were there that night in the inner circle with me you saw something different I will have to give up the point.
IF however you weren't there with me, I have to respectfully assume, and you should too, that you don't know what you're talking about as far as what went on in Foxboro on September 21st in the inner circle!

You say that Fez wouldn't have made the cut on at least 3 of U2s other best albums. Well, IMHO it HAS made the cut on their 3rd best album. I can imagine an era-appropriate version on TUF, and POP would have loved it. It would have been too non-linear for AB and just the wrong flavor entirely for TJT.

However, I can't think of any U2 album, except ATYCLB, since at least TUF with a track as weak (IMHO) as Walk On. You and I have some different taste here. I don't think its a good song. I think its U2 being generic U2 and I don't mean that as a compliment to them. It was best forgotten after the Elevation tour IMHO.

So, aside from insulting each other; you and I just have different taste! If I thought Walk On was a decent song and FEZ-BB wouldn't be amazing live I'd probably agree with your point. I feel oppositely and I don't think we can debate each other out of our feelings on this one!

We cool?

 

[mikal]

one more for the road:

 

[Tyagu_Anaykus]

About Fez I have to agree with gvox here. And I think Walk On is being played beautifully.

I thought I would complaint about PRide and SBS but when I see them live, I loved it. So I guess... It's not frustating me.


Just enjoy what they play.

 

[gvox]

I promise not to call you "thick" again if you can avoid calling me delusional? Deal?????

The problem is, I didn't call you delusional. But anyways.

All the rest is just whatever. I know that for a fact everyone in the inner circle in Foxboro did not groan during Walk On. I also know that you'll be very hard pressed to find a significant number of people who think that Walk On is the weakest track of any U2 album since TUF. That's just patently ridiculous, frankly. I am also fairly confident that if you polled the average concert-goer as to which of the two songs they'd rather hear, Walk On would win. People actually know the song and sing along to it. Would never happen with F-BB.

Finally. I'll go way out on a limb here and say that F-BB would not have appeared on the following: TUF, JT, AB, Pop or ATYCLB. That pretty much covers most people's "top 3 U2 albums" (not necessarily mine, I love Boy-War U2 a hell of a lot).

The problem is really that hardcore internet U2 fans can't accept that the majority of the people who are funding this tour don't want to hear atmospheric trips out into experimentland. They want songs that are catchy and that they can sing along with/have heard at some point before.

 

[Aygo]

That goes for Cedars also.

And the other two sentences fully apply to the 'unplayed 4 NLOTH songs' that the extremely tiny vocal minority here want. Want to see a show fall flat on it's face? Play Fez, Cedars and White as Snow in the same show. Mass exodus.

I guess most people don't understand that the main goal at any show is to keep 95% of the crowd in the venue, not be looking around at the end of the show going 'hey - where did everybody go?'

I always thought that the good artist doesn't give what the masses want, but give:
a) what the masses don't want
b) what the masses didin't think they wanted.

Plus, if in the past acoustic stripped sets worked with then-less known songs, this time it could work as well. "Cedars Of Lebanon" is one of U2's songs in the whole catalogue that could work better in a totally stripped arrangement. Same goes for WAS.

 

[gvox]

I always thought that the good artist doesn't give what the masses want, but give:
a) what the masses don't want
b) what the masses didin't think they wanted.

Your avatar holds the answer

 

[nielsgov]

Ultraviolet
The Unforgettable Fire
Your Blue Room
MLK
Electrical Storm

That's all I'm saying.

 

[gvox]

Ultraviolet
The Unforgettable Fire
Your Blue Room
MLK
Electrical Storm

That's all I'm saying.

Point being?

 

[last unicorn]

U2 have made it clear that they won't play something that isn't appreciated by the audience. Otherwise they'd be playing club gigs instead of stadium shows, like it or not. We wouldn't have got the Claw if it were any different. U2 makes music to reach the masses.

 

[Tyagu_Anaykus]

Point being?

Probably that in this tour we get those songs, so It's not frustating

 

[Aygo]

One of the few good decisions that the band took for this tour was:

1) Leaving "Bullet The Blue Sky" outside of the set for the sake of... whoever;
2) Dropping "Pride" and letting "Walk On" do "Pride"'s job, because "Pride" and "Walk On" have similar spirit/thematic. Since "Pride" was so "tired", no other decision could be better than this.

 

[gvox]

Probably that in this tour we get those songs, so It's not frustating

Oh, and in that case I agree 100%. And they take a huge chance already with YBR, imo. Huge.

Unknown Caller? Now THAT is frustrating

 

[Tyagu_Anaykus]

U2 have made it clear that they won't play something that isn't appreciated by the audience. Otherwise they'd be playing club gigs instead of stadium shows, like it or not. We wouldn't have got the Claw if it were any different. U2 makes music to reach the masses.

Probably I'm a minority but I do prefer these huge stadium full of people that club gigs.

Being one of those 90,000 people they have in each concert it's so much rewarding at least for me And it's a lot more fun

 

[Tyagu_Anaykus]

Oh, and in that case I agree 100%. And they take a huge chance already with YBR, imo. Huge.

Unknown Caller? Now THAT is frustrating

We think alike

 

[Aygo]

Ultraviolet
The Unforgettable Fire
Your Blue Room
MLK
Electrical Storm

That's all I'm saying.

"Ultraviolet" is good, but the first versions of "Electrical Storm" were atrocious for me - and I'll never forget that Edge's guitar was out of key (and didn't match the studio version) in some occasions.
"Your Blue Room" is miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiles away from the deep and complex texture that the studio version has got. Some songs don't work when played live - U2 has already experienced that.
"The Unforgettable Fire"... not bad, it was missing, but this is faraway from the best renditions ever played.

Done this, I prefer to listen to some songs I haven't heard live yet than average or poor and uninspired and sloppy (WOWY, ISHFWILF, MY) versions of the same old songs I can listen to on the radio everyday.

 

[chrissybaby]

Surely Acrobat is an "easier" choice than YBR in many respects....
YBR is the biggest LIVE risk they've taken in a long time IMO... More so than some of the Boy tunes early in 2005...