Complain & regret: Why so many songs sound worse on 360 ...

[65980]

The topic of "are the old songs relevant?" is dear to my heart. There's a very fine line between "we-have-to-play-a-certain-number-of-classic-hits-for-a-stadium-show" and "U2 = The Rolling Stones".

In my opinion, it is very rare that any artist keeps up the vitality, energy, and personal investment in an old song past a certain point -- it may be past the first tour, a few years, or whatever, but it rarely stays in peak form for long, even if the band/artist in question is still at peak form with its new material.

There are, of course, times when a veteran artist will re-discover old songs and suddenly breathe new life into them, as has occasionally happened to U2. I thought the inclusion of "Black Cat/Into the Heart" on Vertigo was great, for example. But this is only the exception to the rule.

In my opinion, here are when some classic U2 tunes "jumped the shark live":
-- "I Will Follow": should have been shelved throughout the 90s, but did re-gain some live oomph when re-introduced in the mid-00s.
-- "Sunday Bloody Sunday": should have been permanently dropped after 1987
-- "Bullet the Blue Sky": should have been dropped after ZooTV
-- "New Year's Day": has never sounded bad because they always play it exactly the same -- but probably the most boring live song because they ALWAYS FUCKING PLAY IT. Could have been dropped after the 80s.
-- "Pride": has never sounded good live, ever (well, it was fine the very first time they played it in New Zealand).
-- "Bad": depends on Bono's voice.
-- "With or Without You": still good on ZooTV, but never since.

Well, those are just the 80s classics, but you get the idea of how my tastes work -- I DON'T REALLY ENJOY AN ABUNDANCE OF OLD SONGS. I do love it when there's a surprise in the set, or when a song will be tried out for a while, worked up a bit, and then maybe shelved again after a month or so of gigs.

When I was watching the Vertigo tour-film, I loved the new stuff and almost fell asleep watching the lame-ass performances of the 80s songs, which were unnecessary. Even though I don't really like the new album, if I go to a U2 show tomorrow, I don't want to hear anything from before, say, 1997, and even that's stretching it.

New Songs = Vitality.

 

[gvox]

Such a troll.

Stifle it, Edith.

Because when we have Lou and Sinead , we talk about two different things:
First a "jive moment" with Lou on screen during the band playing a tribute song to him, by the way his own song.
Second a U2 tune with a recorded voice by Sinead out from the speakers, where most people thought someone on stage singing it, discussing about and finally getting it, that was not live

Seriously, what the fuck?

how predictable

Yeah. The thread is like moldy bread, basically. Pretty much guaranteed it'll always taste the same.

Which is not quite the answer to my question: "Why did not Edge do the back vocal parts?"

Would this have improved the tour for you? Or would you still have 'regrets'?

Good grief.

 

[gvox]

There are, of course, times when a veteran artist will re-discover old songs and suddenly breathe new life into them, as has occasionally happened to U2. I thought the inclusion of "Black Cat/Into the Heart" on Vertigo was great, for example. But this is only the exception to the rule.
.

Wrong. Completely off base and nowhere near the reality of what happened on Vertigo. The attempt of An Cat Dubh was noble and great and all, but it was NOWHERE near an example of 'new life' being breathed into a song - it was considerably weaker than previous tours' versions. It was only a notch above the plodding agonizing version of 11 O'Clock Tick Tock they trotted out at Irving Plaza in 2000.

It was not the song that you are trying to give an example of.

That song was Electric Co., period, hands down, end of story.

And frankly, most if not all of your other examples are off-base also. Noone complains about NYD, you know why? Because they decidedly DON'T play it "all the time". Same with Bad, it's a rare treat. Bullet was a show highlight right up until the Vertigo tour and an integral part of the theme. SBS admittedly took a bit of a dip when they slowed it down but it has on this tour regained most of it's former self. I Will Follow should have been dropped thru the nineties although it gained new oomph in the mid-00s? So which tour exactly should they not have played it on?

 

[monsieur fly]

Wrong. Completely off base and nowhere near the reality of what happened on Vertigo. The attempt of An Cat Dubh was noble and great and all, but it was NOWHERE near an example of 'new life' being breathed into a song - it was considerably weaker than previous tours' versions. It was only a notch above the plodding agonizing version of 11 O'Clock Tick Tock they trotted out at Irving Plaza in 2000.

It was not the song that you are trying to give an example of.

That song was Electric Co., period, hands down, end of story.

And frankly, most if not all of your other examples are off-base also. Noone complains about NYD, you know why? Because they decidedly DON'T play it "all the time". Same with Bad, it's a rare treat. Bullet was a show highlight right up until the Vertigo tour and an integral part of the theme. SBS admittedly took a bit of a dip when they slowed it down but it has on this tour regained most of it's former self. I Will Follow should have been dropped thru the nineties although it gained new oomph in the mid-00s? So which tour exactly should they not have played it on?

Well I can only judge of what I've seen but to me An Cath Dubh, Into The Heart etc sounded very good on Vertigo. I don't have a strong view on how they compared with previous renditions but if you compare them instead with more common warhorses (Pride, SBS) in the Vertigo setlist, they sounded much fresher.

You are right that New Year's Day is not played at every concert but it's far from being "a rare treat"- ok it might have made only ten appearances so far this tour but it was played 65 times on Vertigo, and 80 times on Elevation. Something like "Your Blue Room" is a rare treat, not New Year's Day. I think Bullet has been uneven since ZOO TV- the "Mark Chapman" crescendo on the first leg of Elevation was pretty exhilarating but there are different songs they can do.

 

[65980]

Wrong. Completely off base and nowhere near the reality of what happened on Vertigo.

In other words, you have a different opinion, to which you added a rude insult.

And frankly, most if not all of your other examples are off-base also.

In other words, you have a different opinion, to which you added a rude insult.

All the song-by-song examples I gave were just random items of how I (don't) appreciate the old songs at times. I wasn't referring to the current tour setlist, but rather to the entirety of the band's setlists in total since those songs first appeared. For example, while I haven't a clue how often "New Year's Day" has been aired in the past few months, if we go back to count all the shows from late 1982 up to today, it is obviously one of the songs they've played the most.

Regardless of these trivial details, and despite your rather long and incredibly rude post, you seem to have overlooked the main point I was making (had you focused on it, we might have put this thread back on track), which, given your post-history, doesn't surprise me.

 

[popacrobat]

Because when we have Lou and Sinead , we talk about two different things:
First a "jive moment" with Lou on screen during the band playing a tribute song to him, by the way his own song.
Second a U2 tune with a recorded voice by Sinead out from the speakers, where most people thought someone on stage singing it, discussing about and finally getting it, that was not live … though really someone (Edge) could have made it. Why did he not do it?

most people thought somebody was on stage singing when Bono says "Sinead Oconnor, on satellite"? What? Most people are retarded then. And I doubt you talked to everybody in the stadium after they played Your Blue Room for backing vocals. It's a very minor complaint I think. It's not something I'd really harp on, and it probably sounds better with Sinead than it would with Edge doing that part. That's probably why they went that route. The reaction by the entire stadium was pretty lukewarm to say the best anyway - but the diehards ate it up.

But this seems to be the only indictment of "playback" so I don't know if a song that was played what, 8 times, with Bono acknowledging that they had O'Connor on satellite really using a ton of playback or making it complaint-worthy. Especially when they went out of their way to have Sinead sing it. That means they must have liked it. Probably because of the satellite thing /space ship/ linking up somewhere else.

Anyway I was just curious as to what else you had for playback, but it seems like this is the only complaint/example you have which is what I was wondering.

 

[popacrobat]

New Year's Day has not been played a lot lately. I went to 24 Vertigo concerts and I saw New Year's Day once. I've been to four 360 concerts and I saw it twice. It's a nice treat I think, and it still sounds pretty damn good. And it's an awesome song. The entire stadium went apeshit when they heard the bassline to kick the song off too, so it's a good crowdpleaser and sounds a LOT better than say Pride did.

 

[gvox]

In other words, you have a different opinion, to which you added a rude insult.



In other words, you have a different opinion, to which you added a rude insult.

All the song-by-song examples I gave were just random items of how I (don't) appreciate the old songs at times. I wasn't referring to the current tour setlist, but rather to the entirety of the band's setlists in total since those songs first appeared. For example, while I haven't a clue how often "New Year's Day" has been aired in the past few months, if we go back to count all the shows from late 1982 up to today, it is obviously one of the songs they've played the most.

Regardless of these trivial details, and despite your rather long and incredibly rude post, you seem to have overlooked the main point I was making (had you focused on it, we might have put this thread back on track), which, given your post-history, doesn't surprise me.

Would you like a hankie?

You were the one who said that An Cat Dubh was the lone exception to your silly rule. You are wrong, Electric Co is pretty widely accepted as a highlight of the Vertigo tour.

You're backpedalling on NYD. Whatever.

You know, if you think I'm rude, you can always use the ignore function. Once more you are completely unable to separate yourself personally from your argument. I said your examples were off-base and removed from the reality of what went on the tour. How is that personal? Answer: it's only personal unless you take it personally...but anyways, given your "history" of your complete inability to accept criticism for your usually outlandish ideas from anyone much less me, it's probably a good idea to just ignore me.

We're done here.

 

[ZOOTVTOURist]

The topic of "are the old songs relevant?" is dear to my heart. There's a very fine line between "we-have-to-play-a-certain-number-of-classic-hits-for-a-stadium-show" and "U2 = The Rolling Stones".

In my opinion, it is very rare that any artist keeps up the vitality, energy, and personal investment in an old song past a certain point -- it may be past the first tour, a few years, or whatever, but it rarely stays in peak form for long, even if the band/artist in question is still at peak form with its new material.

There are, of course, times when a veteran artist will re-discover old songs and suddenly breathe new life into them, as has occasionally happened to U2. I thought the inclusion of "Black Cat/Into the Heart" on Vertigo was great, for example. But this is only the exception to the rule.

In my opinion, here are when some classic U2 tunes "jumped the shark live":
-- "I Will Follow": should have been shelved throughout the 90s, but did re-gain some live oomph when re-introduced in the mid-00s.
-- "Sunday Bloody Sunday": should have been permanently dropped after 1987
-- "Bullet the Blue Sky": should have been dropped after ZooTV
-- "New Year's Day": has never sounded bad because they always play it exactly the same -- but probably the most boring live song because they ALWAYS FUCKING PLAY IT. Could have been dropped after the 80s.
-- "Pride": has never sounded good live, ever (well, it was fine the very first time they played it in New Zealand).
-- "Bad": depends on Bono's voice.
-- "With or Without You": still good on ZooTV, but never since.

Well, those are just the 80s classics, but you get the idea of how my tastes work -- I DON'T REALLY ENJOY AN ABUNDANCE OF OLD SONGS. I do love it when there's a surprise in the set, or when a song will be tried out for a while, worked up a bit, and then maybe shelved again after a month or so of gigs.

When I was watching the Vertigo tour-film, I loved the new stuff and almost fell asleep watching the lame-ass performances of the 80s songs, which were unnecessary. Even though I don't really like the new album, if I go to a U2 show tomorrow, I don't want to hear anything from before, say, 1997, and even that's stretching it.

New Songs = Vitality.

I do not agree completly, but you have a point – good posting, thanx!

 

[monsieur fly]

Would you like a hankie?

You were the one who said that An Cat Dubh was the lone exception to your silly rule. You are wrong, Electric Co is pretty widely accepted as a highlight of the Vertigo tour.

You're backpedalling on NYD. Whatever.

You know, if you think I'm rude, you can always use the ignore function. Once more you are completely unable to separate yourself personally from your argument. I said your examples were off-base and removed from the reality of what went on the tour. How is that personal? Answer: it's only personal unless you take it personally...but anyways, given your "history" of your complete inability to accept criticism for your usually outlandish ideas from anyone much less me, it's probably a good idea to just ignore me.

We're done here.

Oh dear, your usual attachment to subjectivity is slipping somewhat isn't it?

 

[monsieur fly]

New Year's Day has not been played a lot lately. I went to 24 Vertigo concerts and I saw New Year's Day once. I've been to four 360 concerts and I saw it twice. QUOTE]

Ok but the U2 gigs website says it was played in 65 shows, which amounts to half the Vertigo tour so I still think my quibble is valid.

 

[gvox]

your usual attachment to subjectivity is slipping

In most cases that would be regarded as a compliment, but I doubt you realize that.

 

[gvox]

Ok but the U2 gigs website says it was played in 65 shows, which amounts to half the Vertigo tour so I still think my quibble is valid.

What's your 'quibble', exactly? That NYD is tired and needs a rest? Or that Your Blue Room is more of a treat than NYD? NYD is one song that I've rarely heard anyone, even the most anal of setlist watchers, complain about. Likely because The Edge never (although I'm sure someone will find a video where he does) misses in that song, and Bono usually finds a way to pull it off with gusto no matter how rough of a night vocally he's having. The opening bar is probably the single most recognizable, loved, and cheered for intro of any U2 song.

It's just a bad example of a song that 'needs a rest'. If anything, they could make that the every night song and do one of the others listed every other show.

 

[Popmartijn]

What's your 'quibble', exactly? That NYD is tired and needs a rest? Or that Your Blue Room is more of a treat than NYD? NYD is one song that I've rarely heard anyone, even the most anal of setlist watchers, complain about. Likely because The Edge never (although I'm sure someone will find a video where he does) misses in that song

(was there both times Edge fucked up)

 

[gvox]

I'll see you in line, pal.

 

[ZOOTVTOURist]

even the most anal of setlist watchers,

Might you just please behave here. Otherwise leave the thread. Such bad language is not welcome.

 

[ZOOTVTOURist]

Well I can only judge of what I've seen but to me An Cath Dubh, Into The Heart etc sounded very good on Vertigo. I don't have a strong view on how they compared with previous renditions but if you compare them instead with more common warhorses (Pride, SBS) in the Vertigo setlist, they sounded much fresher.

 

[mikal]

Might you just please behave here. Otherwise leave the thread. Such bad language is not welcome.

the word "anal", in that context is allowed here.

quit being such an anus.

 

[ZOOTVTOURist]

the word "anal", in that context is allowed here.

quit being such an anus.

Hello? If you think people reach a low level, there is always a lower one. Very kind, indeed. Cheers to the moderators, too, to allow such bad language ...

 

[corianderstem]

Hello?

Annyong!

 

[digitize]

Hello? If you think people reach a low level, there is always a lower one. Very kind, indeed. Cheers to the moderators, too, to allow such bad language ...

New Interference Nanny-Forum Rule: All references to parts of the human body automatically earn lifetime bans. Poor people posting in the thread about Bono's neck...

 

[Sicy]

the word "anal", in that context is allowed here.

quit being such an anus.

Why dont you ignore this poster, or this thread? I mean what is the point of this post exactly other than a personal attack?

Cheers to the moderators, too, to allow such bad language ...

Use the report post feature if you have a problem with someone's post, instead of knocking the moderators. We cannot always read every word on this forum.

 

[ZOOTVTOURist]

You are right that New Year's Day is not played at every concert but it's far from being "a rare treat"- ok it might have made only ten appearances so far this tour but it was played 65 times on Vertigo, and 80 times on Elevation. Something like "Your Blue Room" is a rare treat, not New Year's Day.

 

[ZOOTVTOURist]

Why dont you ignore this poster, or this thread? I mean what is the point of this post exactly?

The point is: He is offending me!

 

[ZOOTVTOURist]

Use the report post feature if you have a problem with someone's post, instead of knocking the moderators. We cannot always read every word on this forum.

I will do, and I am not knocking you. And thanx for your kind words of understanding...

 

[ZOOTVTOURist]

What about rotating as in "hey, half of the visuals are just shots of us playing, so we can just pick songs as we go and go to that if we don't have pre-set visuals for that song?"

The whole "scripted-for-the-visuals" thing seems like an excuse to me.

To return to the topic: Cool idea! "Scripted for the visuals" really sounds like an excuse. Will be really interesting & challenging, how the band will cope with all this on stage in Glastonbury '10 – and how some of the tired old war horses will sound without the 'Claw' ...

 

[mikal]

Why dont you ignore this poster, or this thread? I mean what is the point of this post exactly other than a personal attack?

yeah, it was a personal attack. my apologies to you Sicy.

 

[ZOOTVTOURist]

yeah, it was a personal attack. my apologies to you Sicy.

What about an apology to me?

 

[ZOOTVTOURist]

I thought Vertigo was less scripted than this tour. Like I said before I have high expectations for them.

Yes, maybe this scripted frame will lose a bit in 2010 ...

 

[LoveTownTourist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm2BBeWATrE