Comparative Tour Statistics re Setlist Diversity/Stagnation

[dan_smee]

Just some U2 touring stats for those worried about setlist diversity:

Shows so far on 360: 86
Number of different songs played: 59
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 12

Shows on Vertigo: 132
Number of different songs played: 60
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 11

Shows on Elevation: 113
Number of Different songs played: 51
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 10

Shows on Popmart: 93
Number of different songs played: 55
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 18

Shows on ZooTV/Zooropa/Zoomerang: 158
Number of different songs played: 54
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 13

Conclusions:

While the earlier tours are at a disadvantage, having fewer songs to draw from in the back catalogue, there is still a substantial drawing area U2 can select songs from for ZooTV and later. Diversity of songs is pretty consistent, noting though that at this point 360 is the shortest by 7 shows, and has the 2nd highest diversity rating, 1 behind Vertigo (which played 46 more shows).

Stagnation-wise 360 rates highly as well, with Popmart the big loser. No fewer than 18 songs were played at 95% of shows or more. That is over 80% of a typical setlist length. 360 has 12 songs played at 95% of shows or more, roughly 50% of the average setlist length. Vertigo, with 11, is just under 50% of the average setlist length, and Elevation with 10 is approx 50%. ZooTV with 13 is sitting around 56%.

All this adds up to 360 being U2’s most diverse and least stagnant tour. Given that only 86 shows have been played (just over half ZooTV’s total), and already 5 more unique songs have been played. ZooTV also had the added bonus of a second album released during the tour boosting its numbers.

This doesn’t take away from the fact that setlist selection has at times been poor on 360. Persistence with songs such as In A Little While have meant that some feel the setlists have become stale.

However, the over-arching point to be made here is: 360 is poised to become U2’s most diverse tour ever IE, most unique songs played during the tour. It also has a very good rating in terms of stagnation, as only 12 songs have been played at 95% of shows or more. 360 still has 25 shows to go and if any of these 12 is dropped, or songs such as 40, Bullet the Blue Sky, or any number of realistic surprises shows up, these figures will only improve.

The point I am making is this:

Those pining for the old days of Popmart and ZooTV that complain that “U2 are playing In a Little While again” or “I wish they’d drop With or Without You” or “this tour is so stale, the set lists are boring” should consider these numbers. They should also consider that this tour has given us songs like The Unforgettable Fire, Your Blue Room, Zooropa, Even Better Than the Real Thing, Return of the Stingray Guitar, North Star, Glastonbury, Every Breaking Wave, Mercy, A Boy Falls From The Sky, Spanish Eyes, Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me, Scarlet, MLK, Mother’s of the Disappeared, Electrical Storm, One Tree Hill, Love Rescue Me and some cool covers like Das Model, The Auld Triangle, Yigidim Aslanim Burda Yatiyor, Solo Le Pido A Dios and She’s the One.

All I’m saying is, maybe things aren’t so bad?

 

[U2387]

Just some U2 touring stats for those worried about setlist diversity:

Shows so far on 360: 86
Number of different songs played: 59
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 12

Shows on Vertigo: 132
Number of different songs played: 60
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 11

Shows on Elevation: 113
Number of Different songs played: 51
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 10

Shows on Popmart: 93
Number of different songs played: 55
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 18

Shows on ZooTV/Zooropa/Zoomerang: 158
Number of different songs played: 54
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 13

Conclusions:

While the earlier tours are at a disadvantage, having fewer songs to draw from in the back catalogue, there is still a substantial drawing area U2 can select songs from for ZooTV and later. Diversity of songs is pretty consistent, noting though that at this point 360 is the shortest by 7 shows, and has the 2nd highest diversity rating, 1 behind Vertigo (which played 46 more shows).

Stagnation-wise 360 rates highly as well, with Popmart the big loser. No fewer than 18 songs were played at 95% of shows or more. That is over 80% of a typical setlist length. 360 has 12 songs played at 95% of shows or more, roughly 50% of the average setlist length. Vertigo, with 11, is just under 50% of the average setlist length, and Elevation with 10 is approx 50%. ZooTV with 13 is sitting around 56%.

All this adds up to 360 being U2’s most diverse and least stagnant tour. Given that only 86 shows have been played (just over half ZooTV’s total), and already 5 more unique songs have been played. ZooTV also had the added bonus of a second album released during the tour boosting its numbers.

This doesn’t take away from the fact that setlist selection has at times been poor on 360. Persistence with songs such as In A Little While have meant that some feel the setlists have become stale.

However, the over-arching point to be made here is: 360 is poised to become U2’s most diverse tour ever IE, most unique songs played during the tour. It also has a very good rating in terms of stagnation, as only 12 songs have been played at 95% of shows or more. 360 still has 25 shows to go and if any of these 12 is dropped, or songs such as 40, Bullet the Blue Sky, or any number of realistic surprises shows up, these figures will only improve.

The point I am making is this:

Those pining for the old days of Popmart and ZooTV that complain that “U2 are playing In a Little While again” or “I wish they’d drop With or Without You” or “this tour is so stale, the set lists are boring” should consider these numbers. They should also consider that this tour has given us songs like The Unforgettable Fire, Your Blue Room, Zooropa, Even Better Than the Real Thing, Return of the Stingray Guitar, North Star, Glastonbury, Every Breaking Wave, Mercy, A Boy Falls From The Sky, Spanish Eyes, Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me, Scarlet, MLK, Mother’s of the Disappeared, Electrical Storm, One Tree Hill, Love Rescue Me and some cool covers like Das Model, The Auld Triangle, Yigidim Aslanim Burda Yatiyor, Solo Le Pido A Dios and She’s the One.

All I’m saying is, maybe things aren’t so bad?

Thank you for taking the time to do all of this!!

It's come up a bit lately, but you ran the numbers and I'm sure others will thank you as well.

Agree word for word.

Great points!

It is very true that selection(IALW, MS, Walk On all the time, almost nothing from the early 80s) and pacing have been off in a few key areas (if you ask me that is) on 360. Especially in 2009. As result, something just feels or felt, depending on your perspective, a bit off.

I've never been particularly critical of this tour as lacking diversity, I think they've only done a better job trying things out and rotating standards as the tour has gone on. Pride, IWF, UV, Hold Me...Kill Me, the new unreleased songs, etc.

And honestly, as you point out, I can't see how anyone could say 360 is static compared to its stadium tour predecessors Zoo Tv and Popmart.

 

[dan_smee]

Thank you for taking the time to do all of this!!

It's come up a bit lately, but you ran the numbers and I'm sure others will thank you as well.

Agree word for word.

Great points!

It is very true that selection(IALW, MS, Walk On all the time, almost nothing from the early 80s) and pacing have been off in a few key areas (if you ask me that is) on 360. Especially in 2009. As result, something just feels or felt, depending on your perspective, a bit off.

I've never been particularly critical of this tour as lacking diversity, I think they've only done a better job trying things out and rotating standards as the tour has gone on. Pride, IWF, UV, Hold Me...Kill Me, the new unreleased songs, etc.

And honestly, as you point out, I can't see how anyone could say 360 is static compared to its stadium tour predecessors Zoo Tv and Popmart.

Thank you!

I agree that selection is an issue, and it always will be with competing interests/tastes of diehard fans given the diversity of the back catalogue, and also the volume of casual fans at any given show.

U2 will never get that right, it's an impossible task. I get the feeling IALW is played so often to inspire casual fans to listen to more U2 that they may not know. For whatever reason they see it as a song that might encourage further listening.

I’m also not saying that this means everyone has to love the tour. As with the above, the diversity of diehards means that some prefer setlists leaning towards 80’s, 90’s, 00’s etc. Just trying to discredit the idea that U2 aren’t trying to engage the diehards on this tour, and that they definitely are not just ‘going through the motions’.

This is why I love this band.

 

[cobl04]

The internet is the problem, and the only problem. Setlists were incredibly static on ZooTV and Popmart, but because the internet was only embryonic, the only hint you had to a setlist was a sidebar in a newspaper. So no one cared!

 

[dan_smee]

The internet is the problem, and the only problem. Setlists were incredibly static on ZooTV and Popmart, but because the internet was only embryonic, the only hint you had to a setlist was a sidebar in a newspaper. So no one cared!

So you mean the internet was the SOLUTION and the only SOLUTION???

 

[Axver]

I've been thinking about this lately myself. It's impossible to avoid the conclusion you make about how diverse this tour is. I guess the reason why I still don't like it much, and still don't rate it up there in terms of setlist interest, is that the most awesome parts (from my own perspective) are so rare. Sure, they've cranked out some awesome songs like YBR, OTH, ES, and Zooropa, but the total performances of all four don't equal the total performances of just IALW alone. If a set had all four of those songs, I'd explode from joy,* yet not a single set has had more than one of them and the majority of sets have none of them. It's really luck of the draw whether you get one or two rare gems (gems which keep changing) in the midst of a bunch of static songs - and you may not even get any. Does what I'm saying here make sense?

*Before anybody dares to suggest that's unrealistic, one comes from U2's (and one of the world's) best selling albums ever, and the other is a successful single found on a Best Of; the remaining two are hardly going to compromise the experience for non-diehards. OH NO THE OBSCURITY.

 

[dan_smee]

^ Point taken, but the fact of the matter is you are more likely to see one rare gem in the show you go to on 360 than you are to see any on another tour

 

[dan_smee]

^ further:

By definition, rare gem would have to be played only a handful of times, and given the diversity (IE unique songs to shows ratio) of this tour FAR exceeding any other, you are more likely to see a rare gem this tour than any other.

 

[Axver]

I think you are missing what I am saying, and "rare gem" was maybe the wrong choice of words. Last tour, for 2005 at least, odds were good you'd score The Electric Co. This tour? Good fucking luck getting, say, Electrical Storm.

 

[bono_man2002]

Odds for Bono actually remembering the lyrics to The Fly on the 1st Leg of the Vertigo tour were virtually 1000-1 for the first 6 shows. Things improved to about 500-1 after Los Angeles.

 

[4U2Play]

I think you are missing what I am saying, and "rare gem" was maybe the wrong choice of words. Last tour, for 2005 at least, odds were good you'd score The Electric Co. This tour? Good fucking luck getting, say, Electrical Storm.

Both of you make good points, but I lean toward Axver's argument.

The first leg in North America of the Vertigo Tour guaranteed us hearing three or four rare Boy songs, in addition to up to eight new songs from Atomic Bomb every single night.

By the third leg, seven months later, the Boy songs were mostly gone, replaced by a variety of other tunes (Miss Sarajevo, Fast Cars, Gloria, I Will Follow, The First Time, Until The End Of The World, etc.).

There was a big difference in the pacing and feeling of the music between the first and third legs, which made seeing the band again in late 2005 feel fresh.

I love that U2 are trying out unreleased numbers on certain nights of the last couple of tour legs, but the fact that they now only play the same four songs from their latest record night after night is not good. The acoustic version of NLOTH that they did in Helsinki 2 last year brought a huge response from the audience. Why not keep it?

Why not try playing Stand Up Comedy live? That song is a potential beast. Breathe should be played every night, too, I think, just not as the opening number.

It's not the internet's fault. It's that U2 don't mix up their setlists enough. There is no good reason why they can't play SBS, One, Walk On, Streets and WOWY on the first night of a two night stay, then play Pride, NYD, MW, Elevation and Still Haven't Found on the second night. That might inspire some fans to attend both shows, knowing that they might miss their favorite U2 song if they only go to one show. That would also leave loads of space on the setlist to play the dozens of other well-known classics that they refuse to play right now.

I don't understand their conservatism.

 

[Saracene]

There is no good reason why they can't play SBS, One, Walk On, Streets and WOWY on the first night of a two night stay, then play Pride, NYD, MW, Elevation and Still Haven't Found on the second night.

Perhaps some of it has to do with the visuals having to match the songs, and the fact that a whole load of people apart from the band have to be perfectly synchronised when the show is on?

 

[zoopop]

Nice job dan_smee,

I still don't know why U2 can't switch out 2-3 classics a night. Keep it interesting for themselves and the fans.

The only problem I have w/ the 360 show now is the:

SBS
Walk On
Streets
One

stretch. Seems so forced, especially Walk On.

 

[BVS]

I think one thing about this tour that keeps getting overlooked by almost everyone is how many songs we've seen for the first time(or almost first time).

When was the last tour where we saw songs from previous albums that had never been played? When was the last tour where we heard this many new songs?

Your Blue Room
Electrical Storm
Zooropa
Scarlet


and then:

Mercy
Every Breaking Wave
North Star
Boy Falls From the Sky

am I missing any?

 

[BoMac]

Glastonbury

 

[BVS]

Of course... thanks!

 

[4U2Play]

Perhaps some of it has to do with the visuals having to match the songs, and the fact that a whole load of people apart from the band have to be perfectly synchronised when the show is on?

Good point.

I wonder how hard it is for them to flip different light switches for Crazy/SBS on the first night, then One/Streets the next.

Perhaps if they simply had two or three totally different setlists rehearsed for the multi-night performances, that would solve the 'problem'. Probably too much work for them, though.

 

[Axver]

Good point.

I wonder how hard it is for them to flip different light switches for Crazy/SBS on the first night, then One/Streets the next.

Perhaps if they simply had two or three totally different setlists rehearsed for the multi-night performances, that would solve the 'problem'. Probably too much work for them, though.

Honestly, the times they have brought out the changes (e.g. the two gigs that got Pride instead of SBS) seem to illustrate it really isn't THAT hard. If the lighting and other elements for a song are self-containing and everybody in the crew has got the setlist beforehand and knows what's happening when, it shouldn't make a material difference whether the first five songs are (just as a random example) EBTTRT/IWF/Boots/Magnificent/MW or Boots/NYD/MW/EBTTRT/NLOTH. Obviously songs with lighting and other cues that involve segues into other songs are harder to change; i.e. One/Streets is a fairly locked combo now, as is COBL/Vertigo, and look at all the work that clearly went into fitting Zooropa into the Miss Sarajevo/COBL segue.

 

[Popmartijn]

I think you are missing what I am saying, and "rare gem" was maybe the wrong choice of words. Last tour, for 2005 at least, odds were good you'd score The Electric Co. This tour? Good fucking luck getting, say, Electrical Storm.

This tour, for 2009, odds were excellent you'd score The Unforgettable Fire AND Ultraviolet (after 2009, you still have about 50% chance of scoring Ultraviolet). Last tour? Good fucking luck getting, say, The Ocean, Discothèque or In A Little While ( ).

What I'm trying to say is that the same argument holds true for other tours. Just different songs.

 

[Axver]

Fair call, but let me try to plot what I'm saying a bit more accurately. I'm pretty sure you won't agree, but here's where I'm coming from just for the record (and hopefully a bit clearer than my last posts, all I think written a bit poorly with a shocking headache).

This tour has seen a lot of diversity in song choices, but too few of them have had much staying power. Most of the setlist is either 1. locked, or 2. changes by small increments. Consequently, the band have trotted out a lot of songs that have competed for a very small part of the setlist. For example, they've played five unreleased songs (not counting Stingray) that competed for two mid-set spots in Europe 2010 ... and those two mid-set slots gradually became rotational amongst older songs too, thus changing the equation from 2 slots for 5 songs to potentially 0 slots for 5 songs.

So although the raw statistics show a great deal of diversity, it's quite hard for the average fan to experience it. This is my key point. You have to be somebody like Matt of U2gigs to experience the kind of tour diversity that the statistics appear to illustrate (I think he's heard all but 4 songs played this tour).

I should point out that the incremental changes create an illusion of diversity. Look at, for instance, MLK vs Scarlet. Neither qualifies for dan_smee's 5% threshhold, but it's a case of once one's gone, it's gone and the other's in permanently. The rotation of UV/HMTMKMKM is about the only exception (I have to wonder how much that was due to the hissy fit UV fans threw).

Anyway, yes, you can play these games for all past tours really, especially the previous two. The reason I personally don't really rate this tour having a particularly satisfying song selection despite all the awesome rarities is because the core locked (or incrementally changing) setlist is very mediocre to me, while almost all the awesome songs have shown up extremely infrequently, competing for almost no room within the setlist, and dropped quickly. And at the end of the day, I feel that 360 conforms to the pattern of the last two tours, in that night-to-night variation is pretty insubstantial, but that overall tour evolution is relatively substantial. Somebody who looks at the first and last shows of the latest three tours is going to get a considerably more favourable impression of U2's setlist diversity than somebody who takes two consecutive nights in a major market. If you follow the tour extensively, the former may be quite significant to you; if you only see U2 when they come to your part of the world, the latter is all that matters.

 

[u2roolz]

Hello,

Last time I posted was during the 1st night of the European tours 2nd leg and people were upset that the tour wouldn't change much. Well look at it now!

The one interesting thing about being happy for U2 fans all over the world to experience different U2 songs than what I saw may just come down to the expectations of having a boot at some point. And let me say that this tour had me track down a lot of the shows for their distinct setlists. We had One slide down to the early part of the show reunited with Until The End Of The World. And that latter song reunited with New Year's Day on a few select shows and in the U.S. they rotated between the two.

Long story short: I guess I'm extremely happy that people still tape U2 shows because I can't afford to go see U2 everywhere in the world. I have to settle for what they will play in/around Boston. BUT I now am making plans to see them both nights in Montreal because of recent setlist changes. This might be one of the reasons why the band does it, obviously. Lastly, as long as I get to hear these rare songs on my computer and in my car then I am happy and less upset about not being there. So it does make every show still special. I can't complain I got to see Your Blue Room and the one show where they dropped Breathe as the opener.

I'd have to think that they'd keep tinkering with the setlist when they return to North America this summer. And I have one suggestion that came to me. It's almost a running joke of U2 putting the eponymous album title song before City Of Blinding Lights. How about October once in awhile in that slot? The Edge playing that beautiful piano and Bono singing and said piano part goes into the keyboard intro of City Of Blinding Lights, thus eliminating the swirling intro guitar part. It would sound amazing and shock people with surprise. It even kind of matches up. Try it on your iTunes. Play October and skip to :22 seconds into City. They'd have to restructure the intro a bit, but I think it's worth a shot. LOL. Bono? You reading this?

Edit: I agree with everyone's points and I can understand people's frustrations. But when all is said and done, I'm just happy that they're playing these songs somewhere.

2nd Edit: Most importantly I'd like to see (as I'm sure others will too) a comprehensive collection of all the 360 songs done on the tour.

 

[U2girl]

Just some U2 touring stats for those worried about setlist diversity:

Shows so far on 360: 86
Number of different songs played: 59
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 12

Shows on Vertigo: 132
Number of different songs played: 60
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 11

Shows on Elevation: 113
Number of Different songs played: 51
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 10

Shows on Popmart: 93
Number of different songs played: 55
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 18

Shows on ZooTV/Zooropa/Zoomerang: 158
Number of different songs played: 54
Number of songs missing less than 5% of shows: 13

Conclusions:

While the earlier tours are at a disadvantage, having fewer songs to draw from in the back catalogue, there is still a substantial drawing area U2 can select songs from for ZooTV and later. Diversity of songs is pretty consistent, noting though that at this point 360 is the shortest by 7 shows, and has the 2nd highest diversity rating, 1 behind Vertigo (which played 46 more shows).

Stagnation-wise 360 rates highly as well, with Popmart the big loser. No fewer than 18 songs were played at 95% of shows or more. That is over 80% of a typical setlist length. 360 has 12 songs played at 95% of shows or more, roughly 50% of the average setlist length. Vertigo, with 11, is just under 50% of the average setlist length, and Elevation with 10 is approx 50%. ZooTV with 13 is sitting around 56%.

All this adds up to 360 being U2’s most diverse and least stagnant tour. Given that only 86 shows have been played (just over half ZooTV’s total), and already 5 more unique songs have been played. ZooTV also had the added bonus of a second album released during the tour boosting its numbers.

This doesn’t take away from the fact that setlist selection has at times been poor on 360. Persistence with songs such as In A Little While have meant that some feel the setlists have become stale.

However, the over-arching point to be made here is: 360 is poised to become U2’s most diverse tour ever IE, most unique songs played during the tour. It also has a very good rating in terms of stagnation, as only 12 songs have been played at 95% of shows or more. 360 still has 25 shows to go and if any of these 12 is dropped, or songs such as 40, Bullet the Blue Sky, or any number of realistic surprises shows up, these figures will only improve.

The point I am making is this:

Those pining for the old days of Popmart and ZooTV that complain that “U2 are playing In a Little While again” or “I wish they’d drop With or Without You” or “this tour is so stale, the set lists are boring” should consider these numbers. They should also consider that this tour has given us songs like The Unforgettable Fire, Your Blue Room, Zooropa, Even Better Than the Real Thing, Return of the Stingray Guitar, North Star, Glastonbury, Every Breaking Wave, Mercy, A Boy Falls From The Sky, Spanish Eyes, Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me, Scarlet, MLK, Mother’s of the Disappeared, Electrical Storm, One Tree Hill, Love Rescue Me and some cool covers like Das Model, The Auld Triangle, Yigidim Aslanim Burda Yatiyor, Solo Le Pido A Dios and She’s the One.

All I’m saying is, maybe things aren’t so bad?

 

[Pop Artist]

The internet is the problem, and the only problem. Setlists were incredibly static on ZooTV and Popmart, but because the internet was only embryonic, the only hint you had to a setlist was a sidebar in a newspaper. So no one cared!

There was plenty of bitching about static setlists on the internet for Popmart.

 

[cathalmc]

Awesome analysis dan_smee. Thanks for that

 

[cathalmc]

I still think you're all anoraky eejits for following setlists so closely in the first place

 

[ramblin rose]

What else are we supposed to do when we're not at the shows?

 

[Axver]

What else are we supposed to do when we're not at the shows?

He wouldn't know, having never been in that position.

 

[cobl04]

What else are we supposed to do when we're not at the shows?

He wouldn't know, having never been in that position.

I bumped into him walking from Roma St Station in Brisbane to Suncorp Stadium, which was cool after meeting him in Melbourne.

 

[corianderstem]

How did "anorak" become some kind of insult? Isn't an anorak just a jacket?

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

Cori, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorak_(slang)