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Old 06-06-2008, 12:20 AM   #1
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The Future of the Internet...

The end of the Internetz?!

06/01/2008 - Every significant Internet provider around the globe is currently in talks with access and content providers to transform the internet into a television-like medium: no more freedom, you pay for a small commercial package of sites you can visit and you'll have to pay for seperate subscriptions for every site that's not in the package...

I Power


At school, discussions about net neutrality and the implications of these sorts of changes have come about a few times in class and amongst my friends, but it still seems to be something that not a lot of people know/talk about. Anyhoo, a friend sent me this link yesterday and I thought it was interesting...

I suppose this could go in FYM but I hear they bite in there
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:30 AM   #2
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It sounds like the ravings of unsubstantiated conspiracy theorist nonsense. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Net neutrality is important, but people making up histrionic bullshit isn't helpful.
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:03 AM   #3
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Well, I hardly believe everything I read on the internetz, ( but this is totally true: http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/9223/birdsurfbo9.jpg - honest!) I merely stated it to be interesting.
And as far as I know, evidence points that it will be an ever growing issue, although perhaps not to the extent of the apocalyptic scenario they paint.
My knowledge of the issue is admittedly limited, however. I'd certainly welcome the thoughts of someone more well versed in the topic.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:01 AM   #4
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Hopefully this is like the "send this to everyone or we'll delete your account cos we're trying to see who uses they're account" or the "you'll have to pay $5 to use msn from now on cos it costs to much to maintain" :blah:
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:28 AM   #5
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you pay for a small commercial package of sites you can visit and you'll have to pay for seperate subscriptions for every site that's not in the package
That would suck beyond belief if true.
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:17 PM   #6
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Hopefully this is like the "send this to everyone or we'll delete your account cos we're trying to see who uses they're account" or the "you'll have to pay $5 to use msn from now on cos it costs to much to maintain" :blah:
The net neutrality issue is not some internet scam or folk tale, sadly.

Just some random headlines...


The Angus Net Neutrality Bill
Wednesday May 28, 2008
By: Michael Geist ( UofO Prof and writer for the Toronto Star and some other papers)

NDP MP Charlie Angus introduced his private member's net neutrality bill in the House of Commons this afternoon. The short bill seeks to add transparency, neutral network management, and open devices to the Canadian telecom law framework:

Network operators shall not engage in network management practices that favour, degrade or prioritize any content, application or service transmitted over a broadband network based on their source, ownership or destination.

The bill includes several notable exceptions to this general principle, including action to provide computer security, prioritize emergency communications, offer differentiated pricing or bit caps, anti-spam filters, handle breaches in terms of service, and to prevent violation of the law.

The bill also focuses on open devices and greater transparency. It provides that "network operators shall not prevent or obstruct a user from attaching any device to their network, provided the device does not physically damage the network or unreasonably degrade the use of the network by other subscribers." Further, it requires that "network operators shall provide and make available to each user information about the user’s access to the Internet, including the speed, nature, and limitations of the user's broadband service at any given time." The bill is hardly the "regulate the Internet" approach anti-net neutrality advocates would suggest, but rather is a measured response that deserves broad support.


Digital Advocacy Comes to Parliament Hill
(same author)
Tuesday June 03, 2008

Last week, hundreds of Canadians descended on Parliament Hill in Ottawa for a public rally in support of net neutrality, a contentious issue that focuses on the need for Internet service providers (ISPs) to treat all content and applications in an equal, non-discriminatory manner. The event succeeded in attracting politicians from two major political parties, labour leaders, independent ISPs, and individuals concerned with the Internet in Canada. My weekly technology law column (Toronto Star version, Ottawa Citizen version, Vancouver Sun version, homepage version) notes that while it is tempting to view the rally as an anomaly, it is more accurately seen as just the latest in a series of advocacy actions around the world that illustrate both how digital issues are rapidly moving into the policy mainstream and how the Internet can be used to mobilize offline advocacy.

The mounting interest in digital issues such as net neutrality comes as the online environment weaves its way into the fabric of the daily lives of millions of Canadians. Whether for education, entertainment, communication, or commerce, the demographic data demonstrates that an ever-increasing percentage of the population is either "born digital" or has been "raised digital." (cont'd...)
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:24 PM   #7
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It sounds like the ravings of unsubstantiated conspiracy theorist nonsense. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Net neutrality is important, but people making up histrionic bullshit isn't helpful.
My thoughts exactly. There are simply too many internet users who wouldn't have any of this.
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:41 PM   #8
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Given that Dr. Michael Geist is the Canada Research Chair of Internet and E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa, I don't think he's your average internet crazy spouting nonsense.

While there may not be an imminent threat of this occurring, perhaps it's speculated that this is a direction that ISPs could head in the future, so they're striking preemptively.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:31 PM   #9
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Given that Dr. Michael Geist is the Canada Research Chair of Internet and E-commerce Law at the University of Ottawa, I don't think he's your average internet crazy spouting nonsense.

While there may not be an imminent threat of this occurring, perhaps it's speculated that this is a direction that ISPs could head in the future, so they're striking preemptively.
Net neutrality is a serious issue and Dr. Geist isn't a lunatic.

Talk of some secret collusion agreement between the ISPs in 2012 to limit you to few websites is lunacy. It has all the makings of an archetypal conspiracy theory.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:21 PM   #10
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Ok, call me an idiot, but I don't even get how this would work? I own and maintain five different domains. How can some other company decides who has access to MY work and who doesn't? Also, Google has cached/caches like the entire friggin Internet, so what's to stop them from undercutting the competition and keeping everything available?
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:32 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by melon View Post
Net neutrality is a serious issue and Dr. Geist isn't a lunatic.

Talk of some secret collusion agreement between the ISPs in 2012 to limit you to few websites is lunacy. It has all the makings of an archetypal conspiracy theory.
I agree.

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Ok, call me an idiot, but I don't even get how this would work? I own and maintain five different domains. How can some other company decides who has access to MY work and who doesn't? Also, Google has cached/caches like the entire friggin Internet, so what's to stop them from undercutting the competition and keeping everything available?
I don't know a great deal about it either, but the best that I can figure is that ISPs would 'package' access to some major sites in much the same way that cable companies currently do. I'm really not sure if all this is implying that those who don't subscribe to specific packages will be locked out of the sites included in it by their ISP, or if it's just that the ISP's service to those sites for nonsubscribers would be so slow that it would be difficult to load them. I could be wrong, but a lot of it seems to be based on the bandwidth used, those that require higher bandwidth would be more expensive?
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Old 06-07-2008, 01:41 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
or if it's just that the ISP's service to those sites for nonsubscribers would be so slow that it would be difficult to load them.
I don't know a lot about the how either, out of curiosity I've been trying to read up a bit....but as I understand from discussions I've had before, I think it would be something along these lines?

I've been trying to read back through some of Dr. Geist's older articles to see if he mentions any proposed ways this could be done. The means proposed by that I-power group I think were mostly meant to be illustrative, not practical, and as already mentioned, I wouldn't consider them a reliable source. Personally, I think their main aim was to get the word out - hence why the video takes on such an apocalyptic vibe. I haven't looked through the rest of their site to judge if they always take on such a tone.

I just find the idea intriguing, and thought some interlanders - particularly those who are techy - might be able to shed some light on it.
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Old 06-07-2008, 02:11 PM   #13
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Hmmm, I guess I'm still confused. ISPs already control our bandwidth. My web sites have their own bandwidth (b/c I pay for hosting, don't run my own servers on my ISP). I can already pay for more or less depending on how fast I want users to be able to load stuff, or how much can be downloaded each month.

So I don't see the point. Bandwidth has been getting cheaper and cheaper...what would prompt them to tighten control and make it more expensive again?
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:16 PM   #14
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Can you tell I'm bored today?

Anyhoo, wikipedia has a rather extensive article on net neutrality, (Network neutrality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) altho some of the discussions are a little too detailed, especially those about how networking works- I think it flew over my head...

Google also has an article on the issue ( Net Neutrality) , and gives this vague mention as to the "how":

"Today, the neutrality of the Internet is at stake as the broadband carriers want Congress's permission to determine what content gets to you first and fastest. Put simply, this would fundamentally alter the openness of the Internet."
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Old 06-07-2008, 03:50 PM   #15
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Obama supports net neutrality

YouTube - Barack Obama: On Net Neutrality
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