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Old 03-09-2009, 04:29 PM   #451
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Their storylines were intact, sure, but pretty meaningless. I guess the comedian works best of the bunch, but he played a fairly concise role in the novel as well. Manhattan had his bit on mars, which was my favorite part of the film, but every other facet of his involvement in the story was either trimmed to the point or meaninglessness or simply botched (his confrontation with Adrian was changed for the far worse here). And the most important aspect of Rorshach's storyline was excised completely, though his characterization here wasn't too bad.

But don't get me started on Laurie. An already terrible character from the book made 5 times more unbearable, and do we need to mention the "love scene"? So bad it nearly negates the best moments of the film. And the one bit that might have salvaged Laurie's value here with regards to The Comedian was completely botched in the process, leaving that whole thread dead and lifeless.

As has been said, hopefully the Director's Cut will solve a few of these problems with the added material. But unfortunately, with the film we're being shown here, it just misses the mark too often. It cut many of the most important bits, and even lengthened needless ones. Just poor creative decisions all around. Then again, I'm likely never going to watch the Director's Cut anyway, simply to avoid having to watch that animated Black Freighter garbage. *shudders*
Which Rorschach scene are you talking about? I always thought his most important moment was with the dogs/6-year-old/murderer.

The confrontation with Adrian was changed for the worse, in that it shifted the importance more towards Adrian than Manhattan possibly revealing the error of his ways. We still got the sense that Manhattan's power leaves him as an outcast, Adrian's resolution toward his decision wanes, and the general moral ambiguity is present as well.

The Laurie/Comedian thing didn't work at all, I agree, because they cut too much out. Maybe it'll be intact in the longer cut, but I doubt it. Laurie was the weak link, but like I said earlier, found the love scene to be endearing in its awkwardness and near stupidity.

I'd be interested in seeing how the Black Freighter material will be integrated into the story. As of right now, I'm glad I enjoyed the film as much as I did, but can totally understand why others might feel differently.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:30 PM   #452
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And the most important aspect of Rorshach's storyline was excised completely, though his characterization here wasn't too bad.
Are you talking about the effect of his case on the psychiatrist?

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Then again, I'm likely never going to watch the Director's Cut anyway, simply to avoid having to watch that animated Black Freighter garbage. *shudders*
From how I understood it, there will be a Director's Cut with additional footage, and then a SEPARATE cut integrating the Black Freighter. So you may have an option.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:34 PM   #453
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Are you talking about the effect of his case on the psychiatrist?



From how I understood it, there will be a Director's Cut with additional footage, and then a SEPARATE cut integrating the Black Freighter. So you may have an option.

1. Yes I was.

2. Well that's good then. I'd watch the extended live-action footage, but I really can't imagine the Black Freighter working outside of the comic book medium in any way.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:38 PM   #454
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The confrontation with Adrian was changed for the worse, in that it shifted the importance more towards Adrian than Manhattan possibly revealing the error of his ways. We still got the sense that Manhattan's power leaves him as an outcast, Adrian's resolution toward his decision wanes, and the general moral ambiguity is present as well.
My absolute favorite scene in the graphic novel occurs right before Manhattan leaves the galaxy, as he says something like "Nothing ever ends Adrian," and then fades through the globe leaving Adrian with a slightly less-than-confident expression. There's no reason they had to cut this from the film, and given that they did, I never really got the indication that Manhattan only saw Adrian's plan as a temporary solution, or that Adrian might begin to have had some second thoughts about it.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:43 PM   #455
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My absolute favorite scene in the graphic novel occurs right before Manhattan leaves the galaxy, as he says something like "Nothing ever ends Adrian," and then fades through the globe leaving Adrian with a slightly less-than-confident expression. There's no reason they had to cut this from the film, and given that they did, I never really got the indication that Manhattan only saw Adrian's plan as a temporary solution, or that Adrian might begin to have had some second thoughts about it.
That's one of my favorite scenes, too, and I was also surprised that it was cut. The Manhattan angle suffered, but that one shot with Dan and Laurie leaving, and they look back to see Adrian standing there in his ridiculous suit, among the broken glass with "Requiem" playing in the background gave it some sense that he had second thoughts, but that's it.

I guess they felt that Rorschach's journal was enough validation of that same idea? Not that I particularly agree, but it's still there.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:50 PM   #456
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While I'm glad they acknowledged the importance of the final scene with Rorschach's journal, even that still felt wrong because they had to cut all of the New Frontiersman stuff as well. It's like, come on here guys, if you're going to cut material from the film, you can't leave dangling remnants of those story lines lying around with no context. I mean, the journal thing still sort of works in the film, but feels unnecessarily awkward. Same goes for the final moments with the Bernies and Rorshach's psychologist, who probably should have just been left out of the film at that point since their significance was completely removed.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:54 PM   #457
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While I'm glad they acknowledged the importance of the final scene with Rorschach's journal, even that still felt wrong because they had to cut all of the New Frontiersman stuff as well. It's like, come on here guys, if you're going to cut material from the film, you can't leave dangling remnants of those story lines lying around with no context. I mean, the journal thing still sort of works in the film, but feels unnecessarily awkward. Same goes for the final moments with the Bernies and Rorshach's psychologist, who probably should have just been left out of the film at that point since their significance was completely removed.
I figured that keeping in the Bernie's, the psychologist, and Bubastis were more or less nods to the fans anyway, and helped show how the devastation would affect normal people. It does feel awkward when you're expecting to see it in more detail, but it works alright for now.

What purpose does The New Frontiersman serve other than to act as a device for Rorschach's journal to find its way back to society, and to counteract the liberal agenda of The Nova Express? The whole idea of one person being left to determine the fate of humanity is still a powerful idea, even in its abbreviated form.

I'm reserving a lot of my final judgment upon seeing the DC.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:57 PM   #458
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I have to agree with Lance. I was SO relieved to hear the final scene was in the film, but it just kind of laid there. The Watchmen virgins have NO CLUE what that place is, even with the right-wing comments made by the editor. And it left me a little cold, when it should have sent chills up the spine.

And I also agree that the final exchange between Manhattan & Ozy is sorely missing. YLB, do you remember from the way it's edited if it's even possible for this to be inserted back in?
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:58 PM   #459
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nevermind
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:09 PM   #460
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I have to agree with Lance. I was SO relieved to hear the final scene was in the film, but it just kind of laid there. The Watchmen virgins have NO CLUE what that place is, even with the right-wing comments made by the editor. And it left me a little cold, when it should have sent chills up the spine.

And I also agree that the final exchange between Manhattan & Ozy is sorely missing. YLB, do you remember from the way it's edited if it's even possible for this to be inserted back in?
That's fair. It still had the same impact with me, whether or not the political ties of the paper were known, but I see what you mean.

From what I recall, Manhattan comes back, Ozy shows the TV footage, they begrudgingly agree to keep the secret, Rorschach leaves and dies, Dan witnesses and lays the beatdown on Ozy, then Manhattan shows back up, kisses Laurie, leaves, Dan and Laurie leave Ozy by himself.

Maybe it could be inserted between the Dan/Ozy scuffle and Manhattan's departure... even if it's just an exchange between Manhattan and Ozy right there.

It may seem awkward, but could work given the circumstances.
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:10 PM   #461
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I hope you're right. Why Snyder wouldn't film this I don't know.

Isn't the screenplay online?
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:13 PM   #462
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I hope you're right. Why Snyder wouldn't film this I don't know.

Isn't the screenplay online?
The Sam Hamm and first Hayter scripts are, but not the most recent ones:

Watchmen Movie Scripts By Sam Hamm, David Hayter, and Alex Tse - WatchmenComicMovie.com

I was thinking of giving the Hamm script a read, for shits and giggles.
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:15 PM   #463
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Speaking of Hamm, I wonder if Jon Hamm would have made a better Manhattan. I thought Crudup was good, but his voice a little too light?
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:17 PM   #464
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Speaking of Hamm, I wonder if Jon Hamm would have made a better Manhattan. I thought Crudup was good, but his voice a little too light?
Hamm would've been solid, but I thought Crudup nailed it. His voice still had that air of a scientist and still felt kind of human, but detached enough to work, you know?

The only piece of casting I would think of changing is Laurie, but I don't know who would've done a significantly better job.
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:18 PM   #465
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The only piece of casting I would think of changing is Laurie, but I don't know who would've done a significantly better job.
Any random actress with talent?
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