The Hobbit - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Lemonade Stand > Zoo Station
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-25-2012, 08:43 PM   #76
ONE
love, blood, life
 
powerhour24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,645
Local Time: 05:40 PM
You're right about analog editing, though we're talking about someone who's trying to effect a paradigm shift in cinema & a world that's long since forgone physical editing and relied on constant feedback. Now I'm curious if the software is readily available.

Also, wouldn't they have to release it in some wonky pulldown to put it out on Blu-Ray, or convince the coalition to update the blu-ray standard (& all player owners to upgrade their firmware) to enable 48fps playback?
__________________

__________________
powerhour24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 08:51 PM   #77
ONE
love, blood, life
 
powerhour24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,645
Local Time: 05:40 PM
Here's what I found in a pro-forum, it fits in with what I said earlier, at least in regards to AVID which is the go to non-linear editing suite for most major features, Final Cut being used mostly for smaller & indie projects.

"There is no native 48fps editing in Media Composer where 48fps represents real time. This is being done on a couple major feature films and the production company's digital pipeline wrote their own software to transcode every other frame into native 24fps where the editing is essentially being one every other frame. Only in the conform checks and such will they see the full 48fps and adjust accordingly if needed."

So, while yes, you could say that it's still more intuitive than cutting by hand, it still seems rather bold for a major franchise production & an attempt at changing cinema. We'll see, they're also going to have to convince theater operators to pay for upgrades to 10's of thousands of projection systems in the next 7 months or so.
__________________

__________________
powerhour24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 08:58 PM   #78
ONE
love, blood, life
 
powerhour24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,645
Local Time: 05:40 PM
Although, thinking about how some people have talked about it, 48fps may be jarring in 2D, but could drastically improve 3D because motion blur isn't beneficial to the process the way it is to the 24fps 'cinema' look, it hurts it. So now I'm wondering if the footage was shown in 3D, if so then maybe that school of thought is wrong given the reactions across the board.

But Jive, according to people discussing Jackson's original decision to shoot this way, 48fps footage can be converted to look 'normal' with a little artificial blur added back.
__________________
powerhour24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 09:06 PM   #79
Blue Crack Addict
 
Lancemc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ba Sing Se
Posts: 17,664
Local Time: 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerhour24 View Post
Also, wouldn't they have to release it in some wonky pulldown to put it out on Blu-Ray, or convince the coalition to update the blu-ray standard (& all player owners to upgrade their firmware) to enable 48fps playback?
I think that's at least partially the point of all this, giving movie theaters another chance to offer something the viewer can't get at home (at least for another 4 or 5 years, as 3D promised to do).

Anyway, I don't really think the editing thing is such a big deal. You don't need perfect visual fidelity to find a perfect cut or sequence of images. I honestly don't know a whole hell of a lot about visual effects, so maybe it's different there, though I've always suspected those are in large part dealt with on a shot by shot basis, which wouldn't really make a terrible difference in this discussion. I dunno.
__________________
Lancemc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 09:18 PM   #80
ONE
love, blood, life
 
powerhour24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,645
Local Time: 05:40 PM
I was thinking the same thing about theater owners needing a new unavailable piece of tech now that 3D is shifting towards the home market.

If we're talking about CGI effects, then yeah I wouldn't worry too much about that, once things are designed, and their actions mapped out the animation software fills in the frames between keyframes anyway.

Also, I found Jackson's reaction to his initial announcement and he confirmed the 2D release would be in 24p anyway (but it still makes me wonder if this negative reaction to the 48 look came from a 3D exhibition, given what he says I assume it was, but that would mean people still found it uncomfortably different):

"The news about us filming The Hobbit at 48 frames per second generated a lot of comments. Of course, it's impossible to show you what 48 fps actually looks like outside of a movie cinema, but there were several interesting and insightful questions raised.

We will be completing a "normal" 24 frames per second version—in both digital and 35mm film prints. If we are able to get the Hobbit projected at 48 fps in selected cinemas, there will still be normal-looking 24 fps versions available in cinemas everywhere.

Converting a film shot at 48 fps down to 24 fps is not a hugely difficult process, but it requires testing to achieve the best results. Some of this involves digital processes during post-production. We are also shooting the film a slightly different way, which is a question several of you asked. Normally you shoot a movie with a 180-degree shutter angle. Changing the shutter angle affects the amount of motion blur captured during movement. Reducing the shutter angle gives you the stroby (or jerky) "Saving Private Ryan" look.

However, we're going the other way, shooting at 48 fps with a 270 degree shutter angle. This gives the 48 fps a lovely silky look, and creates a very pleasing look at 24 fps as well. In fact, our DP, Andrew Lesnie, and I prefer the look of 24 fps when it comes from a 48 fps master. "
__________________
powerhour24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 10:54 PM   #81
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
They did film in Tunisia.
Watch most of the desert scenes in AOTC and tell me that's a real environment. There are scenes on geonosis that look horrible. Phantom Menace isn't included in this criticism
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 10:56 PM   #82
ONE
love, blood, life
 
powerhour24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,645
Local Time: 05:40 PM
Wasn't AOTC all blue screen?
__________________
powerhour24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 10:58 PM   #83
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerhour24 View Post
Although, thinking about how some people have talked about it, 48fps may be jarring in 2D, but could drastically improve 3D because motion blur isn't beneficial to the process the way it is to the 24fps 'cinema' look, it hurts it. So now I'm wondering if the footage was shown in 3D, if so then maybe that school of thought is wrong given the reactions across the board.

But Jive, according to people discussing Jackson's original decision to shoot this way, 48fps footage can be converted to look 'normal' with a little artificial blur added back.
Oh, okay. I'm still a little skeptical on how natural post processing blur would be, but who knows. Might be indistinguishable from normal 24fps.

48 makes compete sense for 3d, as you were saying. Since the signal is switching back and forth between eyes, we're only getting 12 fps per eye at the moment. Fast motion either in the scene or through camera movements look horrible in 3d as it is now (again, I'm no film technophile, so correct me if I have it wrong)
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 11:02 PM   #84
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerhour24 View Post
Wasn't AOTC all blue screen?
If not, it certainly looked that way
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 11:08 PM   #85
ONE
love, blood, life
 
powerhour24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,645
Local Time: 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
Oh, okay. I'm still a little skeptical on how natural post processing blur would be, but who knows. Might be indistinguishable from normal 24fps.

48 makes compete sense for 3d, as you were saying. Since the signal is switching back and forth between eyes, we're only getting 12 fps per eye at the moment. Fast motion either in the scene or through camera movements look horrible in 3d as it is now (again, I'm no film technophile, so correct me if I have it wrong)
You're right on the motion thing, it's why a film that's not designed for 3D typically looks so bad, because it's not filmed in extended shots with fluid motion. Apparently the 12fps per eye thing isn't exactly true with digital exhibition of 3D, it gets a hell of a lot more complicated, but the idea that it'd be smoother with a higher frame rate because of the eye split is solid.
__________________
powerhour24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 05:59 AM   #86
Blue Crack Supplier
 
lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 37,995
Local Time: 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerhour24 View Post
Wasn't AOTC all blue screen?
Filming
Principal photography occurred between June 26, 2000 and September 20, 2000 at 20th Century Fox Studios in Australia. Location shooting took place in the Tunisian desert, at the Plaza de España in Seville, Spain, in Italy at the Villa del Balbianello on Lake Como, and in the former royal Palace of Caserta.
__________________
lazarus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 09:51 AM   #87
ONE
love, blood, life
 
powerhour24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,645
Local Time: 05:40 PM
Oh that's right, the Naboo scenes.
__________________
powerhour24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 10:16 AM   #88
Blue Crack Addict
 
Hewson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your own private Idaho
Posts: 26,470
Local Time: 04:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonMelon View Post
Bruce Springsteen really needs to make a 3D film out of one of his overblown stadium gigs.
That'd be pretty egotistical for a rock band to do such a thing, no band has that much ego...













__________________
Hewson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 03:21 PM   #89
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BigMacPhisto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,245
Local Time: 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerhour24 View Post
Also, whether Jackson wants cinema to move this way or not, it seems like a really George Lucas-league move to make something within the same series look so drastically different from the original Lord of the Rings films.
Eh, that's what I was hoping for...I wish Del Toro had been the director and been given free reign. I want to see someone else's vision of Middle-Earth, even if it were creepier and uncompromising for the mass audience. Instead, aside from the frame rate change, we're just getting the exact same stuff from the first time around. I'd be alright with all of this if The Hobbit had preceded Lord of the Rings since the follow-up would have a more intricate story and, frankly, more of interest. Instead, this Hobbit duo-logy feels like a regression given how samey it looks and the source material's inferiority.
__________________
BigMacPhisto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 04:38 PM   #90
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus

Filming
Principal photography occurred between June 26, 2000 and September 20, 2000 at 20th Century Fox Studios in Australia. Location shooting took place in the Tunisian desert, at the Plaza de España in Seville, Spain, in Italy at the Villa del Balbianello on Lake Como, and in the former royal Palace of Caserta.
Geonosis scenes were still green screen crapola
__________________

__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dwarves, hobbit, lord of the rings, lotr, peter jackson, smaug, the hobbit

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com