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Old 08-12-2008, 07:17 AM   #886
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First of all, Two-Face is batshit (pardon the pun) crazy. As he states in the film, the only fair thing in this indecent world is chance. So he lets the coin decide the fate of his victims. The coin spared the Joker and Ramirez, Wurtz wasn´t as lucky. He blamed Gordon because he let the suspicious and very possibly corrupt cops (Dent warns Gordon that Wurtz and Ramirez are "scum" early in the film) to work close with him and thus indirectly being responsible for Rachel. Two-Face knew all the time Joker orchestrated the whole thing, but he wants the people who let the mad dog loose (and that includes Batman as well).

The one thing that bothers me, although the scene was pretty badass, is the way he deals with Maroni. The coin decides that Maroni should live, but then he takes out the limo driver (who had nothing to do with him), thusly giving himself a second chance to eliminate Maroni. That time he wasn´t a slave to his coin, which is the essence of Two-Face´s character.

Batman was a nemesis to Gotham long before Two-Face´s death. He would never be recognized as a hero, unlike Harvey Dent, who was Gotham´s favorite. That´s why Batman decides he should take the fall for Dent, making him the hero and giving hope to Gotham. Morally it isn´t the perfect choice to lie to the people - but everybody is far from perfect in this film.

Writing about it makes me wonder how much subtext can be found in the film. It really stands out from all other superhero movies.
Yes, but it would be easier and more fair - since they were talking about being decent in the indecent world - to just dispose of the Joker when Two-Face (or Batman, at the end, or Gordon, when they arrested him) had the chance.

Batman's the one they need, Dent was only working as a hero as long as they held on to the law and had the usual mob villains. Enter chaos of Joker and Dent was sealed IMO. But they had the perfect opportunity to use another lie what would have worked better, would have cleared Dent and tanked Joker.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:19 AM   #887
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I finally watched The Dark Knight. The good: Heath Ledger's performance deserves every bit of breatheless hype and more - his Joker totally owned the screen from the second he appeared. I almost got teary when walking out of the theatre thinking that this had to be his final onscreen appearance. The supporting cast in general was fantastic, Gary Oldman and Aaron Eckhart especially. The movie was long and did feel long, but to its credit I never got bored or impatient and really enjoyed it overall.

The bad: in every Batman film I've seen, Batman was always the least interesting character and sadly I didn't feel any different with this one. I don't think it was Christian Bale's fault, it just seems that no matter who's playing Batman it's always that damn suit that is wearing the actor and not the other way around. He does fare a bit better as Bruce Wayne, but his character still felt frustratingly flat despite all that massive angst. Oh, and some of the action scenes were bloody confusing to watch.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:33 AM   #888
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Yes, but it would be easier and more fair - since they were talking about being decent in the indecent world - to just dispose of the Joker when Two-Face (or Batman, at the end, or Gordon, when they arrested him) had the chance.

Batman's the one they need, Dent was only working as a hero as long as they held on to the law and had the usual mob villains. Enter chaos of Joker and Dent was sealed IMO. But they had the perfect opportunity to use another lie what would have worked better, would have cleared Dent and tanked Joker.
It would be more fair to dispose of the Joker? Would that mean to kill him? Isn´t that exactly what separates people like Batman and Gordon from him?

Batman is a vigilante, Dent was the guy who did it legitimatelly and legally. He was Gotham´s White Knight. Gotham doesn´t want the Bat, they need him as a cruel necessity. In Nolan´s world, Batman will probably never be considered a hero. Joker got it right that they want to use Batman as a tool to clear the streets, but when it does get to that point, they will cast him out like a leper. Because to them he´s just a freak.

How would it clear Dent if they would reveal the shit Two-Face had caused? Influenced or not by the Joker, it doesn´t make any difference, it was he who killed and who almost killed Gordon´s son in cold blood.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:19 AM   #889
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It would be more fair to dispose of the Joker? Would that mean to kill him? Isn´t that exactly what separates people like Batman and Gordon from him?

Batman is a vigilante, Dent was the guy who did it legitimatelly and legally. He was Gotham´s White Knight. Gotham doesn´t want the Bat, they need him as a cruel necessity. In Nolan´s world, Batman will probably never be considered a hero. Joker got it right that they want to use Batman as a tool to clear the streets, but when it does get to that point, they will cast him out like a leper. Because to them he´s just a freak.

How would it clear Dent if they would reveal the shit Two-Face had caused? Influenced or not by the Joker, it doesn´t make any difference, it was he who killed and who almost killed Gordon´s son in cold blood.
It was the only thing that helped him got as far with his plan as he did, yes - he was willing to play without any rules. Solitary confinement would suffice too. What would you suggest for a smart terrorist like Joker ?

Things got complicated after Dent wanted to work legally and legitimately. And once that fails, people would embrace whoever gets the job done and clean the streets. Dent can still be a symbol of justice and peace, like this.

It would clear Dent because officer Ramirez could testify, for reduced sentence about being a corrupt cop, about Joker infiltrating the police and the Rachel/Dent plan (and one big kidnap/murder indictment for those two ferrys, and blowing up a hospital, to name a few things). Two-Face needn't be named at all, Joker's nicely tied up at the same location...just hide the gun. Kidnapped the Gordon family, Batman saves the day. The 5 deaths, including 2 cops ? Blame it on Joker's plan.
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:01 PM   #890
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This has got to be fan-made, but holy shit:



The idea of The Riddler as a Zodiac-esque figure is brilliant.
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:03 PM   #891
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WOW. Is there any chance that isn't fan-made?

That is fucking awesome. And seems real. It's got to be the Riddler in the next one. My pants just got tighter.
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:08 PM   #892
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There's no way it's NOT fan made. They would never use the title of Frank Miller's epic for something unrelated.
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:11 PM   #893
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Nice!!
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:17 PM   #894
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... and with that, my Batman mini-obsession returns.

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Old 08-17-2008, 03:20 PM   #895
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Thats a damn good idea. I'm going to take credit for it.
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:29 PM   #896
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I think it's real.
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:30 PM   #897
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I think it's real.
I think there's a better chance that Courtney had Kurt killed than that being real.
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:31 PM   #898
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NSW is real. The real deal.

And don't get me started on Courtney and Kurt.
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:34 PM   #899
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I'll say this, though.....I sure as shit do like that little bit of art/the concept behind it.
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:59 PM   #900
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I'll say this, though.....I sure as shit do like that little bit of art/the concept behind it.
Yeah. Too bad it's a fake. No way would they name the movie The Dark Knight Returns. That'd be a total waste of a future movie based on the acclaimed graphic novel.
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