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Old 07-26-2008, 12:58 PM   #436
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I agree with this - that bugged me a little, too. (But just a little.)

I just shrugged it off as a plot device - I'm usually willing and able to forgive one occurrence of such a thing in a movie I otherwise love. I don't tend to get hung up on them.

Obviously, I'm much more forgiving than you!

And I'd completely forgotten that Tommy Lee Jones had played Two-Face in that other movie. I've blocked out much of those Schumacher films.

Didn't Val Kilmer play Batman for one of those movies? Who was the villian in that one? Did Kilmer come before or after Clooney?

I liked the score quite a bit - I liked that it was absent in many places, and minimal in others. It was a nice change from other flicks where you can't escape it.

Oh crap, one more question - so why did the cops call Dent Two-Face to begin with? I never felt like that was explained, and maybe that's because I'm not familiar with the source material. Was he shady all along? Or did they just not trust him, because no one could be such a "white knight"?
Val Kilmer was Batman in Forever, with Tommy Lee Jones as Two Face and Jim Carrey as The Riddler. Clooney took over for him in Batman & Robin, with Ahnuld as Mr. Freeze and Uma Thuran as Poison Ivy.

I thought the cops called Dent "Two Face" because they couldn't trust him, too. Plus, he had been putting some of them in jail and shit, so they don't like that.

I always got the feeling that Batman didn't tell Dent he was going to save Rachel instead was because he, as Bruce, wanted to hide his feelings for her from him. If he admitted to it, wouldn't that give him away as Bruce? Especially after knowing Rachel shacked up with him because he's the only person they can "trust".
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:06 PM   #437
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I always got the feeling that Batman didn't tell Dent he was going to save Rachel instead was because he, as Bruce, wanted to hide his feelings for her from him.
Ah, good point! And thanks for the explanation on the Two-Face thing.

As for Clooney/Kilmer, I guess I had thought there was another Batman movie in there, where one of the two had gotten to play him twice. That clears things up in my mind - thanks!
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:08 PM   #438
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In the final scene Batman even tells Harvey how he saved him because he was the true hero, blah blah blah, and Gordon says he tried to save Rachel, he's sorry and all that.

NO Batman, you didn't. You tried to save Rachel, and you fucking should have TOLD HARVEY that, maybe then you could have actually saved him in the end, convince him it was Joker's fault, his plan and all that jazz. What's the deal with this?
Have to make this quick (about to go out) but Dent was well aware that Joker played a trick on Batman. The dialogue goes:

Dent: 'The Joker chose me!'

Batman: 'Because you were the best of us. He wanted to prove that even someone as good as you could fall.'

Dent: 'And he was right.'
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:09 PM   #439
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Ah, good point! And thanks for the explanation on the Two-Face thing.

As for Clooney/Kilmer, I guess I had thought there was another Batman movie in there, where one of the two had gotten to play him twice. That clears things up in my mind - thanks!
No problemo.

There actually was another Batman movie that kicks both of those movie's asses:



The "Family Entertainment" label on the top kills me... this sucker was dark. I remember wanting that Phantasm toy so bad. My parents scoured the earth for that little muthafucka.
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:10 PM   #440
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Have to make this quick (about to go out) but Dent was well aware that Joker played a trick on Batman. The dialogue goes:

Dent: 'The Joker chose me!'

Batman: 'Because you were the best of us. He wanted to prove that even someone as good as you could fall.'

Dent: 'And he was right.'
Hmm... interesting indeed. This one I shall ponder further. Thank you.
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:11 PM   #441
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Oh man. Mask of the Phantasm was THE SHIT.
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:14 PM   #442
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I'm glad that the Joker has always kicked ass in all forms of Batman.

Cesar Romero in the '60s... Jack Nicholson in Batman... Mark Hamill on the Animated Series, and now Heath Ledger's performance - probably my new favorite of the bunch.

Would you guys agree that Ledger's work here is Supporting Actor Oscar-worthy? At this point, I'd say yes, but I know it'll change in the Fall.
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:45 PM   #443
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I would say it's worth a nomination. Is it worth a win? Hard to say without seeing a list of other potential nominees.

But I would not be surprised to see a nomination, even if it's partially due to sentimental reasons. I think they do that sometimes (old lady in Titanic, for instance). This might be the rare case where the sentimental nomination deserves a win.
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:49 PM   #444
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Too soon for Oscar talk. None of the awards films have even been released yet.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:45 PM   #445
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I need to ask about "the magic trick." This has been bugging me since the first time I saw it.

So Joker slams a pencil into the table, but when I looked at it the second time around, it looked like the pencil wasn't sharpened, which means it wouldn't have gone into the table and was just standing there of its own accord. Which doesn't seem possible, considering when I balance pencils out of boredom, a great deal of care and gentleness goes into it, you know what I'm sayin'?

But whatever, that's not my biggest beef. My biggest beef is that the eraser end is pointed up, so when he slams the guy's head onto it, even if you slam it with so much force, how is the eraser-end of a pencil going to go into some dude's head?

Are we supposed to assume it went into his eye socket? In which case, okay, and also, ew.

Or is the joke more that the pencil did not go into his head - just that he slammed the dude's head to the table and knocked him out, and obviously the pencil flew off the table from the force, but didn't necessarily go into the dude's head?

It's possible I may be overthinking this, but there's been so many comments and OMG's over that part, and it bugged me because the logic ... it's just not there, man.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:49 PM   #446
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I'm pretty sure it was meant to be a sharpened pencil stabbed into a table. Though I've only seen it once obviously, if it looked unsharpened at one point it just might be one of those production goofs. And we have no way of knowing exactly what orifice the pencil becomes lodged into considering the PG-13 friendly camera work there.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:53 PM   #447
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I know, it happened so fast I felt like I missed it the first time I saw the movie.

I'm seeing it again Thursday, on the IMAX screen, so hopefully another inspection will unravel the secrets for me.
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:55 PM   #448
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I think the eyeball theory holds much water.

I'll be sure to look out for it when I see it again with my dad.
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Old 07-26-2008, 04:14 PM   #449
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Lance, I do really agree with you about the lack of a great Batman. Zimmer and Howard's work is great throughout and fits the tone of Nolan's work, but that's the one thing that's really missing. Danny Elfman's score for the '89 film is pitch perfect.

Nothing comes close to touching "Finale" from the '89 soundtrack. Damn.
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Old 07-26-2008, 04:18 PM   #450
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I think the eyeball theory .
that is what I saw

heck, it could have been a ridged carrot
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