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Old 12-07-2009, 11:03 AM   #46
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I can't disagree with anything you've said here. It is just such a good film that I personally can overlook problems in faithfulness to source material. I can certainly understand why so many people won't.

As great as the plot was, it's clear the movie was focused on emotions. Some of the facial expressions and dramatic pauses are so heartbreaking. The music and winter setting give it almost a dark fairy tale feel. The tragedy of the film is that the three main characters are damaged people and in the end what allowed them to survive is what ultimately will keep them alone. There is no happy ending and I suppose that contributes in part to why it isn't as well liked.
Right, there's a level of artistic license that anyone can employ when they adapt material, but I do think a certain degree of respect should be given to the source, which one can argue that Burton never fully captured or whatever. I have no problems with The Penguin's characterization, since it was before his more grounded mob-boss portrayal, and that seems to be a bone of contention among purists. The fundamental problem of the Burton/Schumacher series is that the villains' arcs are at the forefront and Batman was usually the least interesting character. One other problem and this only pertains to the Burton films is a lack of continuity. I understand Burton didn't want to do a direct sequel to Batman '89, but there's such a startlingly different tone between that and Returns that they only way you could accept Returns is to take it on its own terms.

In Returns, I love how they set up Catwoman, The Penguin, and Schreck all as foils to almost every major aspect of Batman. Catwoman's his vigilante side, Penguin's the counterpoint to his origin story, and Schreck's the reverse of his businessman persona, only we rarely get to see how it affects Bruce, apart from his relationship with Selina, the best handled storyline of the film. All of these characters are intensely animalistic, and only be accepting their humanity do they find any sort of salvation. Bruce and Selina can remove themselves from their personas to some degree, while The Penguin has everything on the surface - Schreck is also a monster, though not as physically apparent as The Penguin.

So yeah, I'll champion the shit out of Returns as a Burton film. I'd say this along with Ed Wood's the last time he's been a challenging filmmaker and not just engaging in empty stylistic pursuits. Oh well, at least we have this.
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:27 AM   #47
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I wouldnt wanna hear you guys on any of the Batman movies DVD commentary. The movie would be over and you guys would still be discussing the opening scene, HAHA!



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Old 12-08-2009, 12:01 PM   #48
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My buddy and I did a commentary on Forever that went more like a Rifftrax thing than anything else. It was a lot of fun. Plus, you save the analysis for the written word as opposed to watching it all in real-time.
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:33 PM   #49
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Theres a lot of awesome going on in this photo

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Old 12-08-2009, 10:06 PM   #50
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I just bought the whole Animated Series off of eBay tonight. The geekdom is taking unprecedented steps forward.
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Old 12-08-2009, 10:12 PM   #51
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Three and a half pages in and this clip hasn't made an appearance yet? Fail.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:17 PM   #52
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Anyone read much Batman comics? I've just finished Final Crisis and am starting the Blackest Night series, but have yet to read much of Batman comics beyond Battle for the Cowl.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:07 PM   #53
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I've read a few of the big stand-alone issues, like The Killing Joke, The Man Who Laughs, and Batman R.I.P. I highly recommend all of them. I usually just follow the big comic events in DC.

Batman's entire role in Final Crisis was the best part of the entire series and the best thing he's done in comic books in years. What a great battle and twist at the end.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:54 PM   #54
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Just got my hands on a whole bunch of Elseworlds, one-shot, and random comics, including the new Reborn/Death of Batman storyline stuff. Can't wait to read.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:56 PM   #55
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This tangerine meme is the best thing to come out of The Dark Knight.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:59 PM   #56
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I wholeheartedly agree.
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:04 PM   #57
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Just got my hands on a whole bunch of Elseworlds, one-shot, and random comics, including the new Reborn/Death of Batman storyline stuff. Can't wait to read.
Maybe you'll find a world where you're not a fucking geek.
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:09 PM   #58
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Maybe you'll find a world where you're not a fucking geek.
Says the guy who spent 2 pages gushing over Miyazaki's work. Diff'rent strokes.

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Old 12-15-2009, 03:11 PM   #59
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Or growing pains.




 
Obviously everyone here is a geek to an extent.


 
Especially Lance.
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:12 PM   #60
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Ashitaka > Bruce Wayne
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batman, christian bale, christopher nolan, comics, forever, heath ledger, joker, michael keaton, returns, riddler, robin, the caped crusader, the dark knight, two-face

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